OPEN BETA - Open beta TWOTLD - Day 1

[cvdmehden]

Intro: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...d-dreamer.html Then: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-0-a.html Now: Chapter 1. Realer than Real “Dreams are more real than reality itself.” - Gao Xingjian One of the first incongruities I came across in my early years as a lucid dreamer is detailed in the following excerpt from my dream journal from September 1998. Originally, the experience was a source of fascination to me. I shared it with various friends as a “hey, isn’t that neat?” type of experience. It was the type of experience my brain labelled as “intriguing, but doesn’t need to be solved.” Like two moons in the night sky, it was merely a curiosity. Looking at it now, it was one of the clues hidden right in front of my eyes that I had to travel the world over in order to finally see. “I am running across a field when I suddenly become lucid. I forget what I was running from or why. I remember David H. was with me at some point, but he’s gone now. I’m on top of a grassy hill. I look at the grass and am absolutely amazed. It’s so intricate. I can see each blade of grass. There’s dew on some of them. It looks so real, realer than real. I can’t believe it’s a dream. I look out and notice trees far in the distance. They’re probably a mile away, but I can see them clearly, like they’re right in front of me. Everything is so vivid. I can see the pine needles on the trees. I can almost feel them, like I could reach out and touch them. The colors and details are amazing. It’s a perfect moment and I try to take it all in, then I wake up.” This was a high level lucid dream. Many lucid dreamers, even beginners, experience amazing levels of lucidity. When the full comprehension that the dream reality, the hyper-real sights, sounds, and textures, is being dreamed of right then and there by the dreamer, when that truth dawns on the dreamer’s consciousness, it is truly a mystical experience. Words cannot convey the wonder it is to know that you are dreaming the universe in which you are walking, at that very moment. Like most lucid dreamers after their first high level lucid dream, the dream reality struck me as “realer than real.” In other words, the vividness of the dream was so great that “the real world” paled in comparison upon waking. Waking reality now seemed a counterfeit. I had experienced something more real than what my mind knew to be absolutely real. Trying to share the experience was unsatisfying. Most of my friends would say something like, “That’s cool…” not knowing how else to respond to my excited ramblings. And although I didn’t pursue the gift the dream had for me in that experience, it always stuck with me. How could the dream seem more real than the real world? Why wasn’t the real world that vivid? And so, over 15 years ago, the first outlier, the first lucid dreaming key, appeared. Here was the first clue to begin to See. This was an experience that I now find to have been reported and shared by many lucid dreamers. Dreamers all over the world report that the high level lucidity of a dream can appear to be more real than this world. So with this clue, can we begin to rotate our upside down world and see things as they really are? In the following exercise, we do just that, bringing a secret from the dream world to the waking world, and start to open the doorway that leads us directly to the undreamt of realm. Exercise 1: Realer than real When we pick up an object in a high level lucid dream, we are amazed by it. The texture, the detail, the smell, the feel – we are absolutely amazed by how real it seems. In the waking world, do the same but treat the world as a high level lucid dream. Pick up an object. Look at it closely. Be amazed by it. Be amazed by how real it seems. Be amazed that you’re dreaming all this right now. After you’ve thoroughly experienced and been amazed by one object, set it down and move on to another, staying in the state of amazement and wonder. Explore objects in the world like a high level lucid dream in this manner for at least 15 minutes. When we accept things as real, something happens. Things become “knowns.” The magic and mystery is lost because “the real world” is not a thing of mystery. It has been solved and understood. As this mental understanding grows, a veil falls before our eyes. We stop seeing what is actually there and begin to see only our mental understanding of what is there. When we do this to objects, they lose their mystery. When we do this to people, well, that probably explains a lot… My first teacher told me a story about a group of English school children… One misty morning, the classroom instructor looked out the window and noticed that all the kids were gathered together in a circle. The kids were all young, only five years of age, so the instructor felt it was his duty to go investigate and educate their young minds. As he approached, he found all the kids huddled over something, each one was quiet and amazed. “Oh, that’s a rose, it’s a flower with thorns,” the instructor said, and as he spoke, something odd happened. Something shifted inside the kids, a spell was broken. “Oh,” the kids said. They now knew what it was and scattered off. What had once been a thing of mystery and beauty, was now understood. The mystery was gone, and a veil fell across the children’s eyes. From that point on, the kids would no longer see the thing they saw that morning. They would see something known. They would see something called a rose. In the dream, that mental understanding is gone. We no longer mentally grasp what we’re looking at because it’s all a dream. We are seeing things for the first time, which means we are seeing things as they actually are. When we wake up, we go back to our old way of viewing things. Our “dream eyes” are exchanged for our much duller “real world eyes”. The vividness of the dream world is gone, and we’re experiencing less of the present moment. The waking reality thus pales when compared to the heightened light of consciousness we have in the dream. It’s not that the dream world is realer than this world, it’s that we’re actually looking at it from a more enlightened place. This world can be equally as vivid as a high level lucid dream, it can be equally as exciting and wondrous, we just have to train ourselves to see with the eyes we have in the dream. Seeing through these new eyes is a skill that develops. Like a muscle, the more you use it, the stronger it becomes, which also means the experience of this exercise will evolve the more you practice. A full 15-minute exploration of Exercise 1 will lead to an amazing state of consciousness, but it is an ever-changing thing. As soon as you think you’ve mastered it, the world becomes “known” again. So rather than mastering this way of looking at things, we want to see how far it will take us. For some of us, by using this skill we will begin to see for the very first time. And as our new sight develops, the world becomes more and more wondrous. This is our first step into the outliers. End of Chapter 1. All text (c) C.A. von der Mehden, 2014.

[Silentium]

Very well written. Although I haven't experienced a high level lucid dream yet, it reminded me of how paintings can look more realistic than the human eyes or even photo's, since there's no 'focus-blur'.

[Sensei]

Very well written. Although I haven't experienced a high level lucid dream yet, it reminded me of how paintings can look more realistic than the human eyes or even photo's, since there's no 'focus-blur'. This is what I like to call "that dream" or "the dream", because it has always been the hook that grabs a lucid dreamer that has one foot in and one foot out. It is what makes people do "real RCs" because before that moment they didn't think it was possible that everything around them could look so real and yet be "just a dream". Cvdmehden Do you want us to report back? Or just do it? Or report back tomorrow?

[cvdmehden]

Do you want us to report back? Or just do it? Or report back tomorrow? Try it out and report back. Share any insights or experiences or whatever happens.

[StephL]

Hm, hm - I would probably change the rose to something, a 5-year old might really not have seen before - like say - a crazy caterpillar - could get "explained away" by somebody saying - ah - that's just how the butterfly looks before it's ready.. Hard to believe in un-rosed 5 year olds in England.. But I can see your point - and right you are - things, we get overly used to - which have their categories - we know they are beautiful for example - often don't get actually experienced as beautiful any more. But aanyway - I'm in and I will try myself at marvelling at the real world, take aside 15 min. and be deeply amazed by things. I always thought, that hyper-realism and detail might be just the mind's picturing abilities freed from the constrains of the physical eye - but yeah - infused with this primal awe and wonder at knowing, this is all ultimately coming from within you - that is more than just being not restrained..

[rynkrt3]

This reminds me of a lucid dream I had one time. I was fully lucid and aware, I spent the entire dream just walking around admiring the detail of the world I was currently it. It was breath taking. This world in my head looked even better than the world I live in everyday. I will definitely try this exercise out today.

[StephL]

Check - did 17 min. - that's when I looked at the clock again - quite enjoyable! I tried to keep wondering a la: "Wow - how intricate and real it seems, and how many details and for all senses - and it's me dreaming it all up!" Hope I did it correctly - I have a fine selection of beautiful objects - so I used some of these - but also "normal" ones and esp. my darting equipment. In a way - that is what I do in the context of a normal RC as well - but not on objects and not for so long - rather after actually checking - I take in for a moment, what all my senses provide me with - also the detail - and aim at the same sort of marvelling. I am not doing RCs usually, though - only on some exceptional days, even while it usually seemed to have an effect then - for being too lazy and easily bored. Naa - you other disciples - how did it go? wink.gif

[Nailler]

There is a scientific basis for the approach. Has to do with the mechanisms of human perception. Most people don't realize that the world we see is an approximation of what's really out there. Our body's senses generate electrical impulses which create a mental construct in the back of our brains. When everything is as expected in the outside world our brains dub in old data rather than bothering to relay duplicative new input to the construct. When something outside expectations occurs, such as an emergency, the brain begins fully refreshing the construct, and for that reason perceptions become more real and detailed. Doing this exercise causes the construct to refresh and in effect come more into the present moment. That same construct mechanism is in fact our dream world. The only difference between waking reality and dream reality is that the construct lacks external input during waking reality. This technique is similar in function to the first few steps in the exercise in LaBerge's book called, "EXERCISE: YOUR PRESENT STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS."

[FryingMan]

In this the mystical "outliers" are mentioned again, but you have not yet defined yet just what is unique about them, only that they lucid dream alot and easily, without work. Are they "naturals," then? How many "outliers" got there starting from nothing (in other words, non-naturals)? There are some non-natural "outliers" here on dreamviews and they all got their through hard work and dedication. I like the point of this chapter. I have in fact already come to realize that indeed the "waking world" *is* as amazing as the dream world, and that dreamers who say the dream world is more real than the waking one are just not seeing the waking one well enough. So I'm in complete agreement with you here . I like the notion of the exercise, but it's not satisfactorily motivated first. ETWOLD, for example, thoroughly motivates the background of the exercises before talking about them. So yes, I agree people don't really *see* the world. So? Why is this going to get me lucid more? I guess it'll need to wait for a later day...

[AstralMango]

Neat, the first exercise is up! Sounds simple enough; maybe it will motivate me to do more ADA as I didn't do any yesterday. I'll give this a go when I get out of bed.

[StephL]

Yeah - nothing new - but I dedicated myself to following this to the letter, except I'd actively disapprove of something. Only way to honestly evaluate.. Edit: But I hope, you have looked into ETWOLD, cvdmehden!

[cvdmehden]

Keep in mind, this book is designed for all levels of dreamers. For some, these ideas will be completely new, for others, some of the concepts will be familiar. Regardless of how familiar they are, I encourage you to try them out. It never hurts to go back to the basics, and sometimes revisiting the basics fine-tunes your advanced skills. That being said, each exercise builds on the last. A puzzle is being put together, so for you advanced dreamers, share your experiences, but keep in mind, we're headed somewhere and this is just chapter 1. I've read ETWOLD, and there's a lot of good stuff in there. My goal isn't to completely reinvent the wheel, it's to hopefully fine-tune it. Advance the techniques, advance the technology. Ultimately, you guys will let me know if we've made any progress. There's been a few questions asked that get answered in later chapters, so if I don't respond to something, that's why. Thanks for the feedback so far! Happy dreaming!

[Rodrodrod]

Would like to start by saying that this is an exercise I already perform as I too had a "parking lot" moment and since that moment I realized I could see the waking world the same way I did the dreamworld. So I often pretend I just got lucid in waking life and have a beautiful time experiencing everything around me. It's great that you are including this as I find it vital for my lucid dreaming as I don't perform the usual reality checks, as they seem to have never worked in my experience. Which I think is because it felt like a task that you have to perform every so often. Whereas, after having my waking eyes opened I can do this because I generally enjoy doing it and not because I think I need to do it. The trouble with this however is being able to maintain it, and for me especially is doing this at home as I seem to take it for granted, whereas when I'm out it is like I'm actually exploring a new place a lot of times and situations are never the same. Also, I'm not sure whether someone doing this will get them to see the world the same way as they do in a lucid dream if they have never had a lucid dream before, but I suppose that at least they will be paying more attention to things which is where awareness comes in.

[cvdmehden]

Rodrodrod, you'll like where we're headed

[Tangoromeo]

Yes, this definetely works. I remember reading in the beginnig chapters of La Berge an exercise like this. The All Day Awareness Techinque (ADA) it's basically doing this a few times a day until, how you said upwards, this become sort of your reality, and you can find the excitement of new in everyday life. Cant wait for Super Reality checks. Thanks a lot for these contributions.

[Sageous]

Though this is a fine exercise, I'm not sure I can agree with the premise. In my experience, and in my general understanding of lucidity, lucidity does not equal vividness. You can be extremely lucid in a dream without a hint of vividness, just as you can have an incredibly vivid dream without hint of lucidity. Indeed, spending your time admiring the awesome reality of your dream opens up the risk of lending too much "reality" to the dream, and thus a loss of lucidity. Oh, I just realized something: Perhaps, as one of those outliers who has seen the proven effectiveness of practicing the fundamentals to enjoy frequent WILD's and DILD's (which are not techniques, BTW, but descriptions of transitions to lucidity), I should not be posting on these threads? Please let me know Cydmehden; I will be happy to just lurk with interest!

[cvdmehden]

Though this is a fine exercise, I'm not sure I can agree with the premise. In my experience, and in my general understanding of lucidity, lucidity does not equal vividness. You can be extremely lucid in a dream without a hint of vividness, just as you can have an incredibly vivid dream without hint of lucidity. Indeed, spending your time admiring the awesome reality of your dream opens up the risk of lending too much "reality" to the dream, and thus a loss of lucidity. Perhaps, as one of those outliers who has seen the proven effectiveness of practicing the fundamentals and MILD to enjoy frequent WILD's and DILD's (which are not techniques, BTW, but descriptions of transitions to lucidity), I should not be posting here? Pleas let me know. Good points! I'm curious to hear the experiences from all levels of dreamers though, so feel free to join in, keeping in mind that we're not at the end yet, we've only just begun. I'm starting to realize that there is a difficulty in asking for feedback on the exercises and premises of those exercises from the get-go. The exercises and the premises of those exercises evolve as the book progresses.

[Sageous]

^^ Okay; cool! I'll hang around then; thanks! So, um, I can assume that later you will be clarifying that lucidity does not equal vividness? Or do you actually hold that as true, and I've been missing something all these years (which would be interesting as well!)?

[AstralMango]

I've done about 15 minutes of that exercise, although I felt a little stupid by being 'amazed' at many objects. Was a little fun though, and I kept the mindset that I was in a lucid dream. I've also done a bit of ADA along with it (hope it didn't ruin anything). It was... interesting. I await Day Two!

[cvdmehden]

^^ Okay; cool! I'll hang around then; thanks! So, um, I can assume that later you will be clarifying that lucidity does not equal vividness? Or do you actually hold that as true, and I've been missing something all these years (which would be interesting as well!)? I actually don't get into that, maybe I should for clarity's sake, I don't know. The book is concerned with vivid lucidity, so I don't really talk about non-vivid lucidity. When I say lucidity, I mean vivid lucidity.

[Nailler]

And so, over 15 years ago, the first outlier, the first lucid dreaming key, appeared. Here was the first clue to begin to See. This was an experience that I now find to have been reported and shared by many lucid dreamers. I don't understand how recognition that a lucid dream can appear more real than the waking world qualifies as an "outlier" seeing as how it's a such a common experience for lucid dreamers in general.

[Sageous]

I actually don't get into that, maybe I should for clarity's sake, I don't know. The book is concerned with vivid lucidity, so I don't really talk about non-vivid lucidity. When I say lucidity, I mean vivid lucidity. Hmm... I never really heard the term "vivid lucidity" before, since lucidity is traditionally -- and literally-- equated with the presence of wakiing-life self-awareness in a dream, and vividness is simply another aspect of the overall quality of the dream. Sure, a lucid dreamer can use his self-awareness to increase vividness, or clarity, but to define the lucidity with vividness is an interesting take. This is certainly a novel approach; I look forward to seeing where the next chapters take us!

[cvdmehden]

I don't understand how recognition that a lucid dream can appear more real than the waking world qualifies as an "outlier" seeing as how it's a such a common experience for lucid dreamers in general. It's not an outlier to lucid dreamers. It's more an outlier within the spectrum of dreaming experiences. Ideally, all of the outliers will have been experienced by lucid dreamers at one time or another.

[Nailler]

It's not an outlier to lucid dreamers. It's more an outlier within the spectrum of dreaming experiences. Ideally, all of the outliers will have been experienced by lucid dreamers at one time or another. Still not tracking with you. You wrote: We tend to ignore the outliers because they’re not like us. They’re the 0.1%. At least in my experience, extremely vivid dreams are rather common when I'm truly lucid. It will be interesting to see where you're going with this.

[cvdmehden]

Day 2 is up! http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-2-a.html