Getting back m Recall?

[ReaperOfSouls]

It feels like I'm dead every morning , like my brain isn't working at all. About 2 days ago I had a really detailed dream about an albino snake And this morning I had 2 dream fragments. I honestly didn't get those until I finished meditation and said "RaommGaoom". I have a dream journal ( I record them on my ipod) But I still have no luck ); Any help?

[martakartus]

We all have ups and downs in recall. In my case, I used to have really good recall, but it dropped a couple of months ago because of some personal problems I'm experiencing. A week or so ago I decided I had to get back to lucid dreaming. What has worked best for me? Instead of falling asleep obsessively thinking about my problems, I replaced this inner dialog with the mantra "I always remember my dreams". You have to mean it when you say it, don't let your mind wander away, but don't get too focused that you won't fall asleep, of course. While you do this, picture yourself waking up and laying still, remembering your dreams. This got me from almost no recall whatsoever to remembering 4 dreams on the first night. Of course, it takes some time to gain it back, but I think this is a good start. Good luck!

[LouaiB]

What she said ^^ It does kind of depend on a few things; if you're in stress or problems or things like that that worry you etc, if you're putting intentions to recall your dreams like what martakartus said, and a sort of luck I guess since dream recall sometime goes with an obvious reason. Don't worry though. I on average remember 4 dreams a night with 2 of them highly detailed, but when a dry spell comes, forget about it, barely a fragment. It's normal though. I'd think you're a super computer if you don't get dry spells ÔuÔ PS: not actually luck, I don't believe in it XD

[Sharpshoey]

^^ I agree with the post above. A few things I would like to add: When I first started practicing recall, it wasn't very hard for me personally. I just went to bed with intention to remember and that alone brought me to remember a dream a night. I kept writing those dreams down and now I remember 4-6 dreams per night. So Just keep on writing those dreams down in your journal and eventually your recall will start to improve. It may take some time though, but you just gotta keep at it and know that it will improve! Also, I recommend you write your dreams down in a physical journal. Another member suggested this to me and while it may seem like it will take a lot longer, it seems to work better than typing it out. There is something about writing it down that makes the dreams seem that much more important to your brain. If you don't have time in the morning, just take notes on the dream either in your journal, or your ipod, and expand on it later in your physical dream journal. Try to write in as much detail as possible. I know that at first it will seem like a pain, but once you start getting into the habit of writing your dreams out it will actually start to become very enjoyable. I have to space my dream journaling out throughout the day, or else I'd be sitting in one spot DJing for an hour or so If you do that just remember to take notes on your dreams so you don't forget them.

[Draemer90]

Something to consider( I don't 100 percent recommend it because I feel like its a crutch but I have heard it helps from experienced LDers) ...is Melatonin. It's a natural chemical your body produces already and has (I think) been scientifically proven to help remember dreams. Also check out 5-HTP, also all organic and natural.

[LouaiB]

Very good points. What I usually do is voice record the dream first. You know, it's faster, easier and you get to mention all the details before you forget them. Then, I can right them down anytime I feel like it. I also heard it's good if you sketch a little drawing about the place you where in. An hour?! My LDing god, you'll get very strong dream vividness like this! Oh yes, LDing IS being in heaven!! Edit: yup, those substances do help recall.

[Draemer90]

Wow, Sketching your dream is an insanely good idea. Imagine all the neural pathways at work!

[martakartus]

I had never thought of how much it would improve recall to write the dreams down by hand, but now that I think about it, I had my highest peak on recall when I was keeping a hand-written journal. I always need to write my dreams on my phone because I share the bedroom with my sister and obviously I can't switch lights on in the middle of the night, but when I got started with all this I did take the time to pass them onto a notebook. It got to a point where I could easily write a full page of dreams, and when I quitted because it took me too long, my recall never was that good again. I might get back to this old habit, see what happens.

[cooleymd]

I use my computer that is right near me as I sleep, I use notepad++ with the background set to dark grey, and the text set to deep red, so that It isn't bright, in theory I should always write something down but I have to stretch up to turn the monitor on. then type in the dark, then try to go back to sleep. If I am awake for to long I don't go back to sleep (probably from the Melatonin I take for dreaming at high levels it causes insomnia), I always know when I am falling awake from a dream and wake after every one of them, but I have to choose to lie still and attempt recall or wake up and turn on monitor and type a bit (usually the recall gets better if I do because I can remember some random earlier thing and then fill back in), sometimes I think I'm falling sleep instead of awake tho and I try to WILD, but I also have to choose between trying to DEILD, never succeeded at either tho. Today after like 6 dream cycles I triggered on awareness at 8:25 in the morning , I was so calm the dream didn't require stabilization, (stupidly I therefore didn't do it) I thought of some place nearby and the kinds of DC I wanted to be there, and instead they started walking into the room, I think the lucid part lasted like 1.5 - 3 minutes (its always hard to tell), I never got uncalm tho didn't even try to survive the void. It wasn't a go with the flow it was more of a be the flow of the dream, I was 100% aware and choosing what to do. But I was making stupid choices, only one dream objective achieved.

[FryingMan]

I also voice journal first (after mental recall), then transcribe to the computer later. I don't find hand-writing is any better, I believe it is the act of focusing strongly on the memories and recalling them repeatedly that builds great recall. That and actually spending time during the night before you move to go over the dreams repeatedly before even reaching for the voice recorder. What I find now is that once I voice record, I can easily write down all the details I spoke into the app without needing to actually refer to it when writing them up on the computer. Once in a while I'll forget one dream here or there and refer to the notes but mostly the initial effort of recalling and reviewing even before the initial voice journaling is the main part of the recall process. To build great recall, reach for dream memories every single time you find yourself awake, every day, no matter what. Once in a while I'll take a vacation from very active day LD work, and sometimes from active night work, but I never take a break from recalling dreams, even when sick. I've been doing it steadily for 1 year and 3 months and some nights are full of so many memories I can barely hold them all in my head at once. Be steady, consistent, diligent, and recall will build over time.

[Darkmatters]

A glass of water before bed will ensure that you wake up more fully after each REM cycle because you feel the pressure and want to go to the bathroom. Unless you have a weak bladder though you can always get right back to sleep without actually needing to go, and you'll wake after the next REM cycle too. Do a mantra reminding yourself that when you wake you will remain perfectly still, not open your eyes, and you will remember your dreams. At that point, during the night, it's probably best to just subvocally review your dreams - but it's important to put them into actual words, which engages the conscious mind and makes them stick in memory. If you just remember images and concepts those will slide away when you begin to wake up. Or if you really want to make sure, go ahead and write them down then and there, and I guess hit the bathroom if you want to turn it into a WBTB. Maybe another glass of water to keep the cycle going.

[cooleymd]

A glass of water before bed will ensure that you wake up more fully after each REM cycle Waking up fully is not my problem. I go to work at 6am and come back at 6pm 5 days a week, and still I go to bed early and still wake up after every dream cycle. I don't always go back to sleep tho. So during the work week I take 5HTP to skip the first dream and it of course makes the subsequent would'a been 2nd dream weak, but I wake up. Sometimes that is the only sleep I get until about 5am when I give up trying to sleep and fall asleep, but usually after each dose of 10Mg (50%fast50%slow acting Melatonin) I get to sleep and wake up with my mind's eye a flashing, then I must choose a) wake up and journal b) attempt DEILD (risking losing recall), but I always wake up in the end because I always fail at DEILD. I do take B6 for recall improvement but not near the 5HTP (it will ruin the effects of sleep and clarity, and make you sick to boot, as it turns the 5HTP into Serotonin right in the gut, and it then can't reach the brain). Also I sometimes take 25mg of DHEA (for dream bizarreness each last cycle) My odds of triggering on a work day morning < 5% if that But my odds of triggering at some point on a week end morning > 50% (probably 65% / day) If I can just learn to DEILD then I will be a good lucid dreamer, right now I get lots of practice like 6-15 chances per work week depending on if I ever get back to sleep (all of these supplements have risks especially Melatonin at these levels 30-90+ mg per night, especially for women, but I never get headaches or Melatonin hangover) so getting back to sleep is my main issue (long vivid late bizarre dreams and/or insomnia are my Melatonin side effects) I have just bought Valerian root to see what it can do for me (probably toss me into a dream free void) but I'm going to start with small dose. Just opened it smells awful, now I'm going to open the capsule and taste it... hmm kinda tastes like mild paprika mixed with dirt. I'll dissolve in water and drink 1/3 on each attempt to sleep (530mg total) dissolved not to bad now to sleep at 8:00 and see what happens I took only 100mg of 5HTP at 5:30 time to set out my melatonin doses and when I wake I slam them down and drink 1/3 see if I sleep (assuming i ever wake up, lets hope it doesn't kill my dreams)

[Draemer90]

How exactly do REM cycles work? How often do I go into REM sleep? Is it three hours from falling asleep?

[cooleymd]

How exactly do REM cycles work? How often do I go into REM sleep? Is it three hours from falling asleep? typically you will have a cycle every 90 minutes initially the non-rem is long and the rem is short like 5-10 min at the end then each cycle the non-rem becomes less and the rem more but if you take stuff to suppress rem early you may go 3+hrs without rem and then have more rem latter on (like the 5HTP I took) (that is called rem rebound) When I nap on into a weekend the cycle it self seems to shorten to like only be 1hr and then even 45min if I have been sleeping off an on for like 11+hrs or so (but maybe I'm just skipping the non-rem part being awake) (but even when I just keep trying to immediately fall back asleep, because I can't remember the dream I have awoken from they seem to get shorter and shorter) Normally you just have 90 minute ones for like 5 times per night tho

[Draemer90]

Cooleymd, Thanks for the quick response. I guess it doesn't really matter if you have a regular sleep schedule. Maybe I'm wrong. What are the benefits of knowing when your REM cycles are? WBTB technique perhaps...

[FryingMan]

cooleymd, I'll say once more, the dosages you're taking are really massive. I warn anybody else not to go near 30-90mg of melatonin, 1mg is sufficient for sleep and 3-5mg or so sufficient for REM suppression. It's also a good idea to give your body a chance to flush everything out and recover equilibrium before taking more, several days at least I'd think. In terms of "getting good at DEILD," DEILD is very much a "grab the chance when you can" LD method, when the stars all align. I'm a bit skeptical of being able to produce consistent, regular, "DEILD on command" on a nightly basis, but maybe I just haven't figured it out yet, or my sleep style just does not accommodate frequent DEILD opportunities. DEILD works best when you're in a "100% REM" mode, like late morning at the end of your sleep period, where you can fall instantly into REM, or of course when you're exiting a lucid dream where you're already conscious and aware of what's happening (a dream ending) and can prepare yourself mentally for the transition back into a dream. It is true that focusing on DEILD comes at increased risk of losing recall. Maybe designated certain nights DEILD nights and certain nights recall nights to make sure you maintain good recall. I guess I'm trying to say: you can do things to maximize DEILD success, and just practice a lot, but relying on it as your sole LD approach may be disappointing. The really successful LDers use all approaches (DILD, WILD, DEILD), choosing the one appropriate for the conditions of the moment. Making the right choice and being successful at it comes with lots and lots of experiments and patience and experience.

[cooleymd]

cooleymd, I'll say once more, the dosages you're taking are really massive. I warn anybody else not to go near 30-90mg of melatonin, 1mg is sufficient for sleep and 3-5mg or so sufficient for REM suppression. It's also a good idea to give your body a chance to flush everything out and recover equilibrium before taking more, several days at least I'd think. I'm taking to 10mg kind that is sustained release (tho I doubt it is linear) it is also half fast acting and half slow release. The half life of Melatonin is only 45 mintues (half of a rem cycle) so that if you take 4mg you would only have 1mg left after the rem cycle ended. you would have .25mg at then end of the next cycle and pretty much zero by the third. I try to dose the melatonin every 90 minutes so that I acheive a steady state of about 6mg with a half life so short you have to take some all the time to have any effect in the final rem cycle in which I am most likely to trigger.

[FryingMan]

I'd be concerned not only with maximal dose at one time, but keeping one's system continuously saturated with supplemental melatonin throughout the whole night.

[cooleymd]

I'd be concerned not only with maximal dose at one time, but keeping one's system continuously saturated with supplemental melatonin throughout the whole night. Well trying to achieve steady state with a compound with a half life of less than an hour is the whole problem, the best solution would be continuous infusion via IV. Probably make it hard to sleep, but then high Melatonin and having slept in this morning (with lucid dream a result) aren't helping either. Time for my fourth dose, soon I'll give up trying to fall asleep which will result in falling asleep and possibly a lucid. I'll probably go to only using Melatonin 2-3 Nights a week sometime soon FryingMan, but I don't want to go from current level of 1 ,2 , or 3 (sometimes 0) per weekend back to 1/month. Even at 6 Grams per day for 2 months safety studies showed few if an side effects, of course they only did it for 2 months. High dose Melatonin is prescribed for some cancer patients and the dose is usually around 50mg/day but I don't know what form or scheduling. Soon I'm going to get a vibrating watch most likely the WatchMinder3 and set it up for 5 minute intervals on my ankle, first by day to train to RC every 5 minutes (at least look at both hands religiously) and follow with awareness, then by night to attempt triggering of RC in dream, If that works I'll still want to take Melatonin for vividness tho seems to work for that. I did start at low doses but then continued to up and up until I begin to see visions when attempting to fall asleep I figured that is the right dose. It is amusing to be lying fully awake, and suddenly see a conveyor belt of boxes going by then it fades and something else appears. When I get this kind of effect on an early weekend morning I trigger about 80+ percent of the time in one of the next 2 cycles, and the dreams are awesome and completely clear. Tolerance is something I wonder about but clearance is rapid by the way this valerian root isn't putting me to sleep, oh well worth a try