A prayer for Lucid Dreaming

[VagalTone]

I just had a random idea, i thought i would share it A method for praying for Lucid Dreaming: So, a prayer right ? Let's compose a personal prayer that can convey some meaningful and positive midset, i would like something close to « This moment is truly magic, i could well be dreaming now. I wish i can become lucid at all times...». You can make your own personal prayer, including goals for instance Second, a tool to remind to pray and to estimate the progress: what if one used the 10 hand fingers for a proxy of a prayer colar ? One could pray while touching one finger and remember the associated finger, using one different finger for each prayer session, aiming to do, for instance, something like 10 prayer sessions along the day, and maybe using it to fall asleep too or for a WILD So, just a thought. I am not a praying person (since my kid times), but this could be some fun

[Sivason]

I once made a thread for a new technique I called PILD- Prayer Induced Lucid Dreaming. Unfortunately Gab thought I was just being funny and locked the thread. I admit I was being light hearted and funny. However, she misunderstood that I was also very serious. My own belief system has dreaming as a core of religion and also prayer. I encourage people to pray. I normally suggest you not ask but instead praise. Here is my own prayer routine. I use this mantra as I fall asleep, timing it with my breath: "Thank you for this dream, my Lord, thank you for this dream." I repeat this until I reach the first stages of sleep. I also feel a double meaning as I think this. First using it as a dream inducing mantra and second to thank God for my waking life, which is also a dream.

[Occipitalred]

Sivason, when you thank our Lord for "this dream", you mean dream as in the waking experience of the day that has just passed, in other words you are thanking for the past? When you do your "double meaning" take, do you feel that, given our Lord (I use the name Life) has given us a dream and we thanked Life for it, Life will give us another dream (in the future, now) as always? I'm just wondering how you incorporate that "question" that leads to an induction. I think you would understand, I just sometimes wonder how to say/mean/feel the prayer so that it is done with gratefulness, not with ego. What I have been doing recently, is saying "I will dream!" (or anything else I want to do and know I will have difficulty doing like, "I will take a quick shower!") . I say this with determination and intent, and then, I add a "pleeaase" with a tone of reverence and humility, looking upwards. The purpose of this for me, is to give me confidence that, yes, I can achieve this, but not without the permission and presence of Life. Just now, though, I have gone back to just asking, like "please help me focus on this homework." (I would add, though, that I "thank pray" multiple times on separate occasions per day.) I do feel like it's okay for me to ask, because I do it with humility, knowing that Life will choose for me if it's best and if it I deserve it or if I should live a different experience altogether. Also, I see the whole thing as a relationship, like child/parent, in which I think it is fine to ask in a non-obnoxious way, because asking is only a small part of how I interact with Life. But, I would say, my question is "do you think it's simply just better to thank, and then, Life hears our desires anyway, no need to mention them? They will be evaluated needing to put them forth? Anyways, interesting thread Vagaltone, I am sure you can get a lot out of this technique whether you believe in a higher power or not. I think humility is a powerful tool, even for materialists, because nature is more powerful than humans, so even with nothing beyond this physical realm to affect our fates, I think it healthy to realize that our fates are still not 100% a product of our own decision/actions, not that it is an excuse not to try.

[Rodrodrod]

I think the best approach to prayer would be to come in with the mindset that it has already happened and you are thankful for it. Is prayer not another form of intent? When we want something in our dreams do we not have to believe it's already true for it to manifest? I guess I would begin by being thankful for all the lucid dreams I have had prior to this moment and then be thankful for the dreams I would have this night. But like intent, if I don't mean it, I most likely won't succeed. Probably easier said than done

[Occipitalred]

Rodrodrod, Is prayer another form of intent? Intent implies that you will enact whatever you are intending to do. You will have a lucid dream. Prayer is a conversation with a higher power, of divine essence or simply the biophysical cause and effect mechanism in its whole. Because it is a conversation, a relationship, it cannot be done as a "technique". I can't pray in order to get results. I pray because I have a relationship with Life and then, as part of a smaller part of this conversation, I will present my desires (I want to lucid dream), realizing, that, not I induce a Lucid dream, but the higher power will induce the lucid dream. Summary: Intent [You are responsible], Prayer [You depend on a higher power] That is why it seems odd to me to thank someone for something they haven't done yet, as it sounds to me like you are forcing them to do it. But, personally, I think there is an equilibrium between the effort I put in, and the freedom Life gives me. That's why, I use both intent and prayer. But maybe I am assuming you do have a voluntary relationship with Life. If you don't, anything works for the prayer, it can simply be made up of gratitude, and be mantra-like, I suppose. (and then yes, it could be considered a type of intent) I think everyone has a relationship with Life, voluntarily or not, because I have defined Life so broadly to myself. I think my whole existence is a communication/relationship with Life. Prayer, for me, is being attentive to this relationship, and humanizing it. You may want to consider who you pray to: The essence of the world, an omnipotent/omnipresent God, or a divine being among many, perhaps even a spirit. Or simply yourself, your subconscious. Who knows.

[Sivason]

Occipitalred, All that you say is on exactly the right track as far as I am concerned as far as the relationship aspect of prayer. In the case of my prayer, the first part is not for the past but for the present (which is all there is) and for everything, as all things come soely from this source. So, I am thanking God (life, spirit) for my very existance, which is a form of dream (whole line of philosphy here). Second, is the induction portion. By repeating a mantra in your head as you start to sleep the hope is that it will continue inside your mind like an echo. This mantra expresses that "this is a dream" so it works exactly like the mantra "I am dreaming" but has a much more reverant prayer aspect to it. I do not think it is harmful to ask for things, but it is a fine line. I went a few years praying many times a day, yet never asking for anything. I came to realize that there is value in simply expressing what you see as a desirable course for your life, with no aspect of begging. I also think of prayer exactly as you suggest, a realtionship between parent and offspring. Now, you can gain much insight from examining how this relationship works in people. The child who demands and never thanks is tolerated but not favored. The child who is grateful for everything, but never expresses what they want from life, is loved, but the parent has trouble stearing them in the best direction. The best option (imo) is the child who is thankful, and never demands, but has polite conversations in which they tell the parent what they think they want, while acknowledging that they also want guidance if any pf their thought are childish or come from a place of limited understanding. As far as intent with the mantra and prayer, it has for me the same feeling of "I WILL lucid dream" and there fore is affermative, but it is in the tone of confidence one would have with the statement "My parent WILL care for me, when I need it."

[Occipitalred]

Thank you for that response, I really enjoyed it, and I did learn. Oh, and I might add, talking about human relationships, I once met a follower of Hare Krishna and assisted to a ritual. They think the best relationship with Krishna, which in that religion, is God, is the relationship of a wife and husband (us, being the wife, and Krishna, the husband.) Just an interesting fact.

[Rodrodrod]

Rodrodrod, Is prayer another form of intent? Intent implies that you will enact whatever you are intending to do. You will have a lucid dream. Prayer is a conversation with a higher power, of divine essence or simply the biophysical cause and effect mechanism in its whole. Because it is a conversation, a relationship, it cannot be done as a "technique". I can't pray in order to get results. I pray because I have a relationship with Life and then, as part of a smaller part of this conversation, I will present my desires (I want to lucid dream), realizing, that, not I induce a Lucid dream, but the higher power will induce the lucid dream. Summary: Intent [You are responsible], Prayer [You depend on a higher power] That is why it seems odd to me to thank someone for something they haven't done yet, as it sounds to me like you are forcing them to do it. But, personally, I think there is an equilibrium between the effort I put in, and the freedom Life gives me. That's why, I use both intent and prayer. But maybe I am assuming you do have a voluntary relationship with Life. If you don't, anything works for the prayer, it can simply be made up of gratitude, and be mantra-like, I suppose. (and then yes, it could be considered a type of intent) I think everyone has a relationship with Life, voluntarily or not, because I have defined Life so broadly to myself. I think my whole existence is a communication/relationship with Life. Prayer, for me, is being attentive to this relationship, and humanizing it. You may want to consider who you pray to: The essence of the world, an omnipotent/omnipresent God, or a divine being among many, perhaps even a spirit. Or simply yourself, your subconscious. Who knows. I agree with what you said, except that it still is a form of intent for me as I am essentially communicating with myself. So I am responsible. As I understand it, prayer is a communication indeed where you express gratitude and ask/wish for something that you want or need. Or rather express the way you wish your life to go. But I also see it as a communication between the self. I think all that there is comes from one source; thus I see that every interaction of every moment is communication with the source of all that is. As all is one. So in that sense, I am praying to myself, since I am a part of all that is. With that being said, just like the source, we have the ability to create and I think prayer is a tool that we use to create/manifest our wishes into our realities. Since every experience is already a communication with the source. Now, I don't think I am forcing the source into creating because it wants to create. I think we are the source trying to experience itself. So I think that the source wants us to create. Not sure if that makes any sense. I hope so.

[Sivason]

That makes good sense, as much as it can anyways. These are difficult realities to understand and express. "There is no self, and there is ONLY self." The OP is about LD induction, so let's apply what you say to that, if I am following you. You want a forcefully affirmation that is also thankful. The forcefulness is not a demand, but an expression of confidence (faith) You are essentially 'asking' for lucid dreams, but also expressing confidence that such a force will be pleased with lending aid in such a creative endevore.

[martakartus]

We don't need to see it as a kind of religious prayer, they're merely MILD affirmations. I actually find it a good idea, something to incorporate to our daily routine, the same way we do reality checks. And using the fingers to count can serve the purpose of a reality check at the same time. So yeah, why not?