God - Connected to the "dream realm"?

[Torriatte]

I was an athiest my entire life, until a few weeks ago, when he was thrust upon me and I had no choice but to believe. Since I turned, the dreams started, and the world of lucid dreams began. Fair enough. I've never been religious, but even if I believe in God, I don't have to be one of those idiots who walks around praising him...and bragging about my spirituatlity...right? Those people are self serving assholes. So that ain't me. With that in mind...I must tell you that I believe that God plays some part in (at least) my dreaming world. Why on earth would I think that???? Well....just last night I planned on having some fun in my dream, and was going to "conjur" up an ex girlfriend and have some fun...if you know what I mean. Is that a nice thing to do? Not really. Nope. So....as usual I wake up several times during the night, then enter the "realm" in my own way. I don't follow recipes like some of you. I do what works for me. Nevertheless...I was JUST about to start and create the "ex"....when suddenly a bat gets caught in our bathroom vent system...and wakes us up..and I had to free him. So, is this just coincidence that the bat woke me up, as I was about to "abuse" the gift? Hmmm.....I would normally say YEP!!....These days I'm not so sure. Opinions?

[Hukif]

Coincidence, yes. That happens to so many people, in fact, some wonder if it isn't because some LD happen right as we are waking up, which is why it seems like "weird coincidences". Also, "like some of you"? lol everyone does the techniques differently, in a way that works for them because everyone is different.

[Torriatte]

Could be. In my case, I was aware that I was about to begin calling up the ex...so this was not as I was waking up. This happened as I was about to proceed inside a lucid dream. Please forgive me, in that I refuse to use acronyms. I like to spell out words. I just don't know....what is coincidence or deliberate. Sometimes you can interpret events as "either". I suppose that's where faith comes in. I'm new to having "faith"....I do enjoy it though. Thanks for your input.

[Hukif]

Wait, you were starting a WILD? Otherwise, it could have been as you were waking up, regardless of lucidity.

[Torriatte]

Ok, well I don't really follow acronyms. I suppose by WILD you mean that I was aware as I entered the dream state? Yes....I was aware in that I had woken up once before that, and was willing myself back into the state where you can actively enter a dream with lucidity. I am assuming you mean this, as opposed to being in a dream, and suddenly realizing that you're dreaming...yes? Again...please forgive me in that I am not overly familiar with the terminology here, and the etiquette of seniority in this forum. I only started this little adventure a couple weeks ago, right after an event happened to me in real life that brought God to me in a startling way. I am just wondering if there is a correlation with the fact that God and the dreams started virtually on the same week.

[SystemsLock]

You were an atheist... you were about to have dream sex... a bat woke you up in the middle of the night... you believe in God? I'm sorry but that's just stupid. Law of large numbers, self-fulfilling prophecy, placebo effect, any one of these can explain this.

[newtz1995]

You were an atheist... you were about to have dream sex... a bat woke you up in the middle of the night... you believe in God? I'm sorry but that's just stupid. Law of large numbers, self-fulfilling prophecy, placebo effect, any one of these can explain this. i'm afraid I have to agree with SystemsLock on this one. How does this event make God real? As an atheist (or ex-atheist) you should know why God isn't existent.

[Oneironaut Zero]

I, also, can't help but wonder how it is that you correlate a bat waking you up with the existence of God. I mean, I've heard some questionable reasons for establishing (or supporting, in this case) faith, but that one is pretty far out there. I'm going to have to go with the idea that this was coincidence - and not a very remarkable one, at that.

[Blacklight]

If God was to stop every "bad" thing I'd do in a dream (lucid or not) I'd be dead of sleep deprivation by now.

[Torriatte]

Well first of all, you seem kind of antagonistic to me. I for one would NEVER tell anyone in this forum (or any other) that they are stupid...or that their ideas are stupid. I believe most people post here to seek discussion, not someone attacking what they are saying. My first instinct is to tell you to F off. I will not do that. What I will do is tell you that in REAL life...I have always been an atheist. That only changed recently, and that's about the same time the dreams started getting lucid. I had NEVER heard of lucid dreams, or any of this "stuff" that is being discussed in this forum. Never even gave it a thought. Secondly....I think whether you are a Christian Muslim, Hindu, or Orthodox Jew...you are not responsible for some "sexual desire" you have in a dream, whether you are lucid or not. So....using the "dream sex" thing against me is ...how you say....STUPID. Sex in dreams has nothing to do with whether I believe in God or not. Lastly......I am new here, and relatively new at lucid dreaming. I don't use acronyms...so I spell out the words LUCID DREAMING and all that stuff. That's just who I am. I am older, and I don't believe in shortcuts, and texting, and all that teenage crap. So please pardon me if I don't use acronyms. All I was attempting to do was ask for thoughts as to whether people think that GOD is a part of this wonder.....or if people think that this is all just generated for FUN...and has not larger significance? Me? Well up until not long ago I would have never given God a thought. I openly defied his existence, but respected those who believe. I respect religion, in that I think it makes people better, and behave better. But now I have little choice about that. I won't go into the details, but essentially I asked for "proof" that he exists, and it was given to me....in a huge way. So....as the dreams started, I would like to see some connection between finding God, and the ability to experience this "realm" of consciousness. I guess you like to argue or debate, and that's fine. In my life I am more than a match for you on most topics...especially politics. However, in THIS forum on this topic....I am a novice and just trying to enjoy it, and possibly learn from it. Torriatte

[Torriatte]

Not sure if he is trying to stop the bad things, or....perhaps see what my character is, when there are no consequences??

[RagingRambutan]

Hello there. In my opinion you were awoken prematurely maybe because of excitement or any other emotions that is connected to you and your ex...the bat may just be a manifistation of that certain emotion. Anyway I dont think God would stop you from having fun in dreaming. If you are a believer then you would agree that He manifests Himself in all that is good because He is the source of goodness which LD is also a very good Art to master . I don't think we need to bring religion on LD because Lucid Dreaming is for everyone any religion or race as long as you give your time and effort to it

[Torriatte]

Well....the only reason I even mentioned the "bat" was because it woke me up.....just as I was about to do something "bad" in my dream. It just seemed odd. The bat was in real world, and we've never had a bat do anything before...so it was odd. As far as the idea that since I believe in "GOD", I must therefore understand that he is not "existent". That is nonsense. Everyone has their own definition of GOD, so to dismiss "mine" simply because I interpreted it in this manner is not very polite. Perhaps it's because I am "noob" here...but I've noticed that when I put things out there, asking for input.....some of you seem to attack, rather than explain. It's as if you're inferring that my post is DEMANDING that you accept that GOD is controlling this.....or something. I am not only new to the belief in God, but I am new to the lucid dreaming thing too. That's why I came here to see how others think about this stuff. So....for me to question whether anyone believes that "GOD" might have something to do with the dreams, or perhaps even using them to test your character.....does not seem like something that is so stupid as to attack it. I'm merely asking. If I didn't know better I would think that you are a bunch of teenagers who are still of the mentality that if someone thinks differently from you, that they are an idiot, and should be told so. Trust me...I'm not an idiot. I am a well established successful person, who is also a musician who has played professionally since the early 80's in addition to my career. Not some idiot here...ok?

[proxide]

god wont stop you in a dream, especially if he's not going to stop a full on war in real life... as an agnostic i believe that, yes, you can in some way shape or form connect to "god" in your dreams.. but it might be hard to tell if you are really connecting to "god" or not simply because your dreaming and dreams come from you, not from some one else.

[Torriatte]

Proxide. I agree with you. Thank you for the POSITIVE response. I was hoping to get more of that type of response when I asked the question. Perhaps my problem is that I am too forthright in my zeal to understand and enjoy this. This is all new to me....so please forgive any miscommunications that may be happening, that make me seem arrogant....or rude. That is most certainly NOT my intention. Um....Like I said...I agree with you except about the war thing. War has always been necessary in this world of man. To make a blanket philosophy that says "war is bad...we shouldn't kill no matter WHAT!!" seems almost childlike in its simplicity. Anyone who knows a thing about WW2 knows that had we sat back and claimed that "war is bad, and we can't get involved"....the world would be quite different, and you would most likely be named Heinreich or Herman. War is a horror, but sometimes it keeps things as they should be. The world doesn't operate like it should, where everyone is rational and sensible. Your viewing of the news in the Middle East is proof of that. Some people have radically different views about what GOOD is. If you noticed, when the Lockerbie bomber was released, he received a hero's welcome, because he successfully killed some "infidels"...and as we all know...infidels are less than human....and not considered as things that can be murdered. Therefore he did nothing wrong. That is how different people can think. War? It's part of life. It always has been. You just have to be on the right side when you are thrust into it. Thanks for your response!!

[proxide]

ok then "god" wont stop a killer from killing a family is probably a better analagy. also war does NOT have to be part of life, unfortunatly it is now, but i hope that some day in the future we see that it doesn't have to be.

[Torriatte]

Thanks. This was the type of discussion I wanted.....not accusations of being stupid. I appreciate your sincere reply! Perhaps the "BAT" thing has been misunderstood. The bat was real.....in real life. Not sure if having bats fly into your houses is normal...but it sure isn't normal for us. It's never happened in my life. So all I was doing was wondering (out loud here) if the timing was strange that this bat came into my home, and woke us up, at the exact moment I was going to do something that "in real life" would be considered wrong. Personally I'd LOVE to believe that lucid dreaming is purely fun and we can do anything with no consequences to our souls. I'm hoping that's true. All I was doing was asking the question......do you think God could be involved in this.....I guess the answer is no. That's cool. It was just a question not a statement. Thanks again!!

[proxide]

sex is not a bad thing in real life or in dreaming anyway.. it's a beautiful thing that creates more life.

[Torriatte]

Hmmm........I think like the term "god"....the term "sex" has different meanings too. Let's play in hypothetical land for a moment....and ask this question: You're dreaming...and you create a "rape" scene, and rape one of your dream characters. Is that still a beautiful thing? Interesting stuff to ponder. I may now believe in God, but I'm hardly the type to talk about "Sinners" and all that crap. But I suppose the question would be....is it sinning to rape in the dreams? Personally I don't have a stake in the answer.....because I have my own thoughts on it. But what are yours?

[proxide]

no, it's not a sin. it would be a sin to actually physically hurt someone. but when your dreaming about killing or perhaps rape or any other crime/sin its not real. so why would you be punished for something you didn't physically do.

[Torriatte]

I think so too. We're in agreement on that. At least I'd like to believe that....not 100% certain yet. Taking it a step further....in the "real world"....if your mind is full of hate and you basically are a horrible person, but outwardly you're nice to people.....would you be considered a "good person" in the eyes of God or whomever might judge you when you die? Or in other words.....are we judged on strictly physical actions, or maybe on what we are in essence, including the things that nobody knows about that go on in your mind? I'll end this thread now, since I've deviated from lucid dreaming into the realm of philosophy.

[proxide]

well, on the inside you might be a horrible person.. but on the ouside nice, then what are you DOING to be considered a sinner? i feel like its the actions you do. because sombody who think horrible things and does nice things must realize that his/her thoughts are bad and doesn't act upon them. and the thread is already here.. if you have more questions about philosophy then ask away.

[Torriatte]

I'm mostly asking questions to find out other answers. I already have my own......on most things at least. The lucid dreaming is of interest to me though. I had never even thought you could stop a dream, and create a new one as you wish. I think anyone who has ever seen that movie Star Trek: Generations, would tend to agree that lucid dreams are like being in the "nexus". To me that is beyond cool, and makes going to sleep as fun as going to another world.

[proxide]

it really and truely is fun and very cool. And i would have to agree that it's exactly like going into another world. a world where you are given the opportunity to become god.

[Kensei]

Hello toriatte, i too am a christian, although i usually keep it to myself. I can see where you're coming from, but I dont think that the bat was a sign from god. However, I do believe that in dreams you should treat the residents with respect. The way I see it, we have a gift of being able to enter this unique and vibrant realm, and so we shouldn't abuse it. Dream characters may not be 'real', but then again they eat, sleep, interact and act like a human in all respects and all inside your dreamworld. Does that then mean they dont exist? That they dont deserve human rights? I just think that we should treat them well, unless they attempt to kill us, in which case we should fight them. But whatever, everyone has their opinion I guess...