Thread: A new world within lucid dreaming (involving shared dreaming)

Hmmm...I've typed about 3 different replies and each time it sounded too hostile. DV gets a little negative sometimes, so sorry if I sound like a schmuck.

This is your first day here and you're already spouting "The Truth." This is not the first time SD has been discussed. This is not the first debate to be had on the subject. I am not "quickly" dismissings things, as I have had plenty of time to come to my decisions.

I am deliberately not going into the specifics of why I think SD is not real because if I wanted to participate in that debate I would go to the Beyond Dreaming forum. In fact I mentioned only once that I personally do not believe in SDs, and specifically did not make any move to back up that opinion. And yet you have come to all sorts of assumptions about what I have and have not done to come to those conclusions, and what methods I have not used.

Which leads us down the road that Walm mentioned, which was cited as a reason why this is not the right place for an SD debate.

I support 100% your right to believe in SD and not have to rationalize or explain it to me. But do not tell me what methods I use, or tell me I'm quick to dismiss things, when this is the first conversation we have ever had, and no where in the conversation have I laid out why I believe certain things to be true. Don't tell me my reasons for believing something is false when I haven't told you what those reasons are. My contributions to this thread have had nothing to do with the plausability of SD aside from the lone sentence; my comments have been on the predicatable nature of these debates and that this topic belongs elsewhere.

This is your first day here and you're already spouting "The Truth."

Just my truth. I respect your beliefs just as much. And yes, I have a tendency to jump right into things. I'm an impulsive guy.

And it's precisely because I DON'T see your types in the BD forum that I'm probing you. xD We, who truly believe we've had shared dream experiences, could potentially gain an immense amount of insight talking to people who have good, logical, rational reasons for believing such ideas are nonsense.

I tend to antagonize by nature, so don't take it too personally.

I'll pass the peace pipe your way. I'm sure we have a lot we DO see eye to eye on .

No prob. The whole "if you'd just try the scientific method" thing got under my skin.

Now we're way WAY off topic, but it's kind of a double edged sword. On one hand a flood of skeptics to the BD forum could make for some good debates, assuming everyone keeps a cool head and has fun with it. But it can also get hostile if every time someone posts "I Had a Dream that Came True" a bunch of skeptics jumped in to explain why it's just not possible, if they posted in that forum specifically because they wanted it taken seriously. As Walm said, it's like the athiest walking into the church to tell everyone why the whole god thing is crazy.

So...abandoning my previous gripes, assuming we have a good flow of info here aside from some misunderstandings...

How do you feel about your ability to reason while in a dream? More specifically, do you think you have the cognitive capacity to reach a logical decision about your dream while you are in it, or even in hindsight? It goes back to Descartes, but as you know you have seen and experienced things in dreams that were completely ludicris, but while in the dream you believed them to be true. Now the fact that you are lucid might seem to complicate matters, but I think it makes it even more likely that you are simply experiencing what you want to experience.

For example, here's two lucid dreams.

1) You become lucid, and tell yourself you want to go to Naboo and have sex with Natalie Portman. You open a door in your dream, and on the other side is the rolling green hills outside Theed, and there stands Natalie Portman. You do not assume that somehow the REAL Natalie Portman is dreaming she's on Naboo about to have sex with you; you recognize that she is a DC.

2) You become lucid, and tell yourself you want to go to the moon and visit with your friend. You open a door in your dream, and on the other side is a cratered valley of the moon, and there stand your friend. In this case, however, you believe that your friend is there too, and you are dream sharing.

Do you think that your brain is working at 100% capacity while you dream, and do you believe that you have enough reasoning power to evaluate that the dream sharing is really happening?

Originally Posted by Ketsuyume

I simply don't understand, Velzhaed, how one can be so interested in such a mysterious, experimental, (and quite unexplored!) topic such like as lucid dreaming, and yet be quick to dismiss ideas that take everything one step further.

There is really not much mysterious or unexplained about it. Dreams are certainly not magic. Dream sharing is magic.

WakingNomad has suggested that the dream world is called "Urth" and that you visit it whenever you leave your... er... inner world/dream. It is supposedly the same as this plane but might have some slight changes. Check out his "Secrets of the Dream Plane" forum for some more possible info/to show that he really said that. Just saying it was suggested.

If we could stay in a dream forever without having to worry about death in the other plane and they stay the same, hell yeah, I'm staying!

EDIT: Oh, look at that, there's a second page. Ignore this post if it doesn't pertain to your discussion.

Do you think that your brain is working at 100% capacity while you dream?

No, but I don't think my brain works at 100% capacity when I'm waking either. xD

Lucidity seems to come in phases. I lucid dreamt like MAD as a child and teenager, stopped for a couple of years, and just started making a conscious effort to reawaken that part of me last year... though I wasn't really serious about it until last month.

To explain how I truly feel about dream sharing, I would first have to explain how I feel about CONSCIOUSNESS in general. (I might rape this idea because I'm going to majorly summarize a topic/idea I've been studying for over a year now.) I admit I am a believer that we exist both here and there simultaneously all the time... it's all simply a matter of "tuning" ourselves to a certain frequency of consciousness... much like a radio. The brain, to me, is like... one sole station on the radio. (And the one we seem to consciously exist in the most... at least right now.)

I don't believe we cease to exist when our brain dies, but rather, we transition into another frequency... perhaps the dream frequency... for a more permanent duration. And this idea, for me, is the whole crux of even BEGINNING to believe that we can share dreams with other people. Because if one believes we completely and totally cease to exist after we die, I'd have to concur that shared dreaming seems like nonsense.

So if you don't believe in afterlife/other frequencies of existence, naturally it will be hard to come to a mutual consensus, here. xD

Have you ever listened to witnesses who were attempting to retell the events that happened during a tragedy of sorts? Willing, genuine people will still describe things from slightly different perspectives... or perhaps because of the trauma/panic they might have trouble recalling specific details. Dreaming isn't much different, but rather than trauma/panic, we're dealing with...something else that fucks with our memory and perspective. My idea of "shared dreaming" isn't two people who have the exact same experience, because ESPECIALLY in the dream world, everything is so fucking subjective.

While I believe that it's in the realm of possibility to have shared dreams with 99.9% parallel detail, the level of focus, dedication, and effort that would be required to attain that level of lucididy is WELL beyond my capability right now... though in a few years, I suspect it won't be, given I'm dedicating my life to the pursuit of dreams and shared dreams.

So for me, a shared dream could take many forms... it could be two people who are both sleeping and then relate the dream to each other later on with striking accuracy when comparing the two accounts. (Like Wandering Nomad and... Raven Hawk was it....?), it could be one person forgets the events afterwards, or it could be only ONE person was asleep while the other was awake, but the dreamer perceived similar things happening that were quite similar to what was taking place in the life of the other WAKING person at the same time.

A quick example of this last one: About three weeks ago I was staying the night at my friend's house... I remember lying in my bed around 8:00 AM or so after a night of restful sleep, and I could feel my self drifting away again. When this happens I normally have to, "roll" away from my body in order to detach. After that I normally find my self floating in total darkness until I mentally bring my self to a "floor." From there I push my hands through the ground in order to confirm that I am out of body/dreaming, and as fragments of light begin to emerge, I normally find my self in a room similar to the one I just altered my state of consciousness in...

My preferred method for starting my lucid experience from there is to leap through a window and go exploring, and anything can happen once the jump has been made. This time, I found my self in a simple alleyway with a set of stairs. Two girls a little younger than me were walking down this set of stairs and were approaching me. One looked rather Asian. I greeted them, though I don't really remember what we talked about. The whole thing must have only lasted a minute or so.

Upon awakening, I went outside to get a glass of water. I found that my friend's wife had invited two girls over to help her with some things that day. I had never seen these two girls before, but I greeted them. They were both a little younger than me and one looked rather Asian.

I consider this a form of shared dreaming where the SUBconsciousness of these girls that existed on a different frequency was interacting with me. They probably didn't realize I had just met them twice, (because they were awake and therefore tuned into a different frequency), but I like to think I did.

It may sound like nonsense, but when such parallels start occurring frequently, you begin to wonder. And the wonder is enough to cause someone as insatiably curious as I am to go exploring.

Right now, my goal IS to have an experience much like Wandering Nomad's, where I can come back afterwards and me and one other person can discuss some of the things we've experienced together. My motivation for creating this goal is both reading WN's experiences, and personally knowing couples (friends of mine for years) who are into things like Meditation and whatnot, who have related to me some of their shared dream experiences as well.

Sorry for this getting long. I couldn't think of how I could answer your question without the preface. Do I believe that characters in your dreams/OBE's are ALWAYS people from real life? Of course not; All I'm admitting is that I've experienced some very, VERY strange things that seem quite parallel to the trailblazers who have gone before me.

Peace and all. Feel free to ask me more questions if I've been vague on anything.

It's WakingNomad and Raven Knight.

And you know what's really weird? You said many of the aspects, effects, and whatnot of shared dreaming with AMAZING accuracy, and I am assuming you didn't read all of their experiences and threads in one day. If you did, I'm pretty surprised you actually bothered to do that. Even I, a person that wants to become a shared dreamer, wouldn't try that. I haven't even read all of the stuff!

Anyway, I agree with most of the stuff you said, and you know what? I had a similar experience to your meeting the two girls both in the dream world and the waking world. I will quote my DJ for a second and explain afterward what happened not so far after the dream.

When I head up the stairs I see a balcony acting as a third floor that I am not sure was there before. I somehow get up there and find the person I am looking for. She leads me into a doorway that connects the restraunt to a school (I don't see any point in that), and it is a series of hallways/square areas that are all connected to each other and form a square of some kind. The walls have lockers that are a dark red color and two to a column, more than ten to a row. She leads me through one of these square areas, and brings me into another. Two of her friends come out of nowhere, and I am asking her "What is the password?". Every single time I ask, she says "One plus two plus three plus four." This makes sense in my DW and in the WW, as she opens one of the lockers and tells everyone to climb into a hole that leads to a maze-like cave/cavern. I never got into the cavern, as the dream ends here.

Now, I am in a subway train/bus/idk in Washington DC, USA and it pulls to a stop (not a dream). Now, everybody is boarded and I notice some girls about ten feet away. They are the same people from my dream at the end! O_O I'm just staring at them, wondering how this could be (thank goodness they didn't notice! ).

I hope I put in something of some value.

Haha, sorry for raping the names of those two. ^^;;;

I only read a little bit of WN and RK's accounts, but what I read seemed sustainable enough, given my own experiences. Most of what I've learned on the topc comes by taking... well... from as many different sources as I possibly can. I try to look for global consistency in experiences in order to form conclusions. (I prefer personal experiences over scientific anything, even though I try to keep a healthy balance.)

LMAO! When you wrote that the girls were 10 feet away IRL, did you realize that 1+2+3=4 = 10? I just had to ask, cuz I thought it was funny... I figured you were generalizing when you said ten. xD

But yes... like that. Connecting squares and maze like caverns vs a subway a linked cars. It's hard to say until you can take a dozen or two dozen of these experiences and line them up next to each other in order to look for consistent threads. Another issue with shared dreaming is trying to wrap your brain around the idea that time/space is ALSO subject to individual perspective... which is another topic entirely, yet vital to really beginning to understand the idea behind shared dreams.

Peace!

Originally Posted by Ketsuyume

LMAO! When you wrote that the girls were 10 feet away IRL, did you realize that 1+2+3=4 = 10? I just had to ask, cuz I thought it was funny... I figured you were generalizing when you said ten. xD

But yes... like that. Connecting squares and maze like caverns vs a subway a linked cars. It's hard to say until you can take a dozen or two dozen of these experiences and line them up next to each other in order to look for consistent threads. Another issue with shared dreaming is trying to wrap your brain around the idea that time/space is ALSO subject to individual perspective... which is another topic entirely, yet vital to really beginning to understand the idea behind shared dreams.

Ha, I never noticed what you did in the first quoted paragraph! Pretty funny! If it wasn't 10 feet, it was pretty damn close.

For the second paragraph, well, that's interesting. Something to ponder.

You will probably be a good contributor to DV! I look forward to your future posts!

EDIT: MAH 400TH POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since I'm only here every other week, you should double it to see how many posts I would have if I was full time, which becomes 800 posts in 3 months! I'm officially a hyper-active member!

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I joined this board because as of late it's all I want to talk about... and simply being here ought to increase my awareness. Lots of food for thought, here!

Looking forward to more convos in the future.

I am going to wait until I die to do this. It's going to be awesome!

I didn't read all of this, but I know for sure I shared a dream before for all you super skeptics

Edit: weird me an Nomad posted at exact same time... lol

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I am going to wait until I die to do this. It's going to be awesome!

If I'm perceiving this right, do you even get a choice as to even reincarnate or not? I don't see this as truly possible without going to Urth, and, as far as I know, you don't have a choice as to reincarnate or not, so you would have quite a few complications if you want to do it when you die. Maybe during a coma would be better.

I take no responsibility for any coma you may intentionally induce to complete this.

Originally Posted by Snowboy

If I'm perceiving this right, do you even get a choice as to even reincarnate or not? I don't see this as truly possible without going to Urth, and, as far as I know, you don't have a choice as to reincarnate or not, so you would have quite a few complications if you want to do it when you die. Maybe during a coma would be better.

I take no responsibility for any coma you may intentionally induce to complete this.

When we "die" we live on the dream plane until our next lifetime. That's my theory.

Dream/Astral/(insert whatever label you want to classify it as here) plane... yes I agree, I believe the same.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

When we "die" we live on the dream plane until our next lifetime. That's my theory.

Sweet!

anyone else think of me when they read this <3?

Reminds me of my breaking out theory.

OP, go for it. I don't doubt you could create a new world in your dreams.

Originally Posted by Creation X

anyone else think of me when they read this <3?

No offense meant, but I have never even heard of you. Sorry.

Wow, that sounds mean. Please don't take it that way, I'm just saying.

lol at least I know you creation X. Anyway, wonder if anyone will actually attempt this.

Originally Posted by Walms

lol at least I know you creation X. Anyway, wonder if anyone will actually attempt this.

And how do you think they will go about it?

Depends, they want to create the world in pieces right? They could start with the moon, since it already has stuff in there, continue building more in there? Make a space-base there and then send spaceships to build even more somewhere else? Stuff like that.

Originally Posted by Walms

Depends, they want to create the world in pieces right? They could start with the moon, since it already has stuff in there, continue building more in there? Make a space-base there and then send spaceships to build even more somewhere else? Stuff like that.

Too bad stuff like that won't last for long without active support of the addition.

You sure? As I said before, I have a world of my own already and its pretty stable, I don't see why the shared side would make it any less stable than one without it.

Well, I personally think that shared dreaming would make it stable to the point that we are stable at earth. That is how I perceive earth, as a shared dream. Of course, once this is mastered, we can get very creative with it. Such as each of us having a heaven to ourselves, creating people and stories, sending them to hell ( not with fire). That is just one of the themes that we can play with, the heaven and hell theme. I find the stories of the Gods and demigods in the hindu mythology very interesting and we can borrow some of those to play out in our dreams.

We dont necessarily have to stay in them forever. But the crucial point of continuing from where we left the night before and so on can make it so we return to our world at night and this world during the day. It is almost like the night is our other world that we have not yet mastered.

This is how I would go about it. We first work on our shared dreaming skills, once we are all in a shared dream. We turn the dream pitch black and start from "scratch".

We assign a huge chunk of round, ball of space to each of us, a planet. We each get to choose what that planet looks like and where it should be aligned with the others, this is our "home". Then each of us individually goes to each of our planet and starts decorating it with grass, trees, flowers, people, laws, themes. Thats it, then we visit each other, play in each others themes, try to conquer other planets, etc. possibilities are endless.

Same as a few gods getting together and building a world.

Any ideas as to what we can build or do?