Thread: Shared Dreaming Debate

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

zombiesarebad,
I agree w/ Sageous that it was pretty incredible that your wife picked up on the "airplane" symbol at all! I think it would be interesting if you continued this experiment with a different symbol every night (as you mentioned earlier). If you do, please post results.

Personally, I wouldn't dare try the same technique as you on girlfriend, she would kill me if I woke her up in the middle of the night!

i do plan to keep trying this. My wife, by the way, is a firm believer in ESP (not to mention every other unproven phenomenon ever dreamed up) so it didn't take much convincing to get her on board.

What i do is find a random picture on the internet, focus as hard as i can on it while she's asleep, and try to "force" it into her mind while mentally repeating her name and encouraging her to "see" it.

no luck last night by the way. It was a picture of a sword, and she said that she wasn't dreaming anything at all at the time i woke her up.

i will keep you guys updated if you really are interested.

Yes i am interested in seeing this work while waking up the person during sleep after you sent certain images and repeating her name. Maybe you need to start a thread here about this experiment you are trying to do. And keep us updated.

Originally Posted by zombiesarebad

i do plan to keep trying this. My wife, by the way, is a firm believer in ESP (not to mention every other unproven phenomenon ever dreamed up) so it didn't take much convincing to get her on board.

What i do is find a random picture on the internet, focus as hard as i can on it while she's asleep, and try to "force" it into her mind while mentally repeating her name and encouraging her to "see" it.

no luck last night by the way. It was a picture of a sword, and she said that she wasn't dreaming anything at all at the time i woke her up.

i will keep you guys updated if you really are interested.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Here's another goofy question:

Are dream-sharing and telepathy necessarily that different, phenominologically speaking? Seriously, dismissing one for the other is to me like changing two fives for a ten and then saying there's a new amount.

Or did I miss something again?

Not a goofy question. It seems not everyone totally equates the two. I certainly think the same mechanism is at work for both.

I definitely think intentional shared dreaming would be much harder to achieve. Intentional telepathy would only require the transmission and receiving (or sharing) of a thought, while intentional shared dreaming would require at least one party to become lucid, have dream good control, and both parties to have good dream recall.

*I want to write more on this, but I just worked an 11 hour day on 5 hours of sleep, so off to bed now!

^^ So, same energy, but different wiring, with shared dreaming being the more complex circuit. Makes sense to me, and I think I agree.

I hope your sleep was rich with dreams and rest; 11 hrs is way too long!

Originally Posted by Mindraker

Wrong way, man... if you want MORE credibility, you don't add MORE fringe to your beliefs. ESP? No. Wrong way.

Scientific method. Come back to earth. You've lost me.

Hmm, what makes it all about scientific method? I finished my O. Chem. classes and what not, why should the rest of my life be governed by scientific method? Not being hostile here. I am just wondering why anything in the life of anyone who is not conducting an experiment should be limited by the ideas of class room or lab studies? Embrace science, it is freakin awesome. However, no one I know of suggests that the daily belief system of said scientist should be governed by those principles. Life is full of many things that can be wonderful, like love, that can not and need not be viewed through the light of science. Just my opinion. If you happen to be a college professor or even high school lab teacher, than it makes sense to require the students to look at science through that lense, but why limit life out side the lab? The charactors Spock and Data come to mind when I read your post. Are those charectors suppossed to be emulated or are they models of extreamism?


I also wonder why the emphasis on proving anything? Does God exist? I feel that I know it does, but why the heck should i care if my neighbor thinks so? My neighbor wanting proof of God is no concern of mine, as my beliefs make me happy, and I have a life to live. Same thing here. A person can claim to believe they have experienced something, and 'no' the burden of proof is not on them. It is not, because why should they care if anyone else believes. I claim to have had a few hundred LDs that appear to me to have been detailed interaction with entities in a shared dream astral type realm. Good for me. Burden of proof? Why? It is just friendly conversation, I could care less who believes.

Originally Posted by Gills

Maybe not yours, but: http://www.dreamviews.com/f32/i-shar...sister-133599/

And the person who replied to that thread is also one of those.

Not to mention the numerous other threads with people making these claims. To some it happens spontaneously, and to others they can do it at will. I am talking about those who can do it at will. Those can prove shared dreaming via the study I suggested. It couldn't be simpler.

The thread that you linked to is by a new member who has something like 4 posts. It is not even that extreme of a claim as her sister never confirmed a belief in it and no information was exchanged. I have not seen all these claims you are refering to. Are there a lot of members claiming to share dreams with real people who they know and confirm the dream with? I may have missed the threads so if you want to share any real radical ones, please post a link. I may find the crazy ones you refer to as entertaining.

Most of the claims I am hearing are 1) from me, who claims to interact with entities from a totally differant reality I barely understand, with the occassional unidentified DC who claims to be another dreamer. 2) from Hathor, who like me claims contact with an entity 3) from shadowofwind who claims to have interesting mind expanding phenomina in his dreams that leads him to believe he has contacted others. I have not seen claims from regular members (not 4 posts) that they can share dreams with another individual at will. The claims that when they were young they had the same dreams as the father, is not a claim to an ability that can be harnessed. as an example.

So, for all of our entertainment i invite any of you to post links to what you feel are crazy claims of a reliable ability. It should be fun to see what threads you are talking about. certainly not every 3rd or 4th member makes that claim? Maybe 1 in 100? Anyways, here is a real thought I want to add. When a radical event is claimed to have happened you should look at the credability of the person. In any field where one can simply claim to have an ability or experience fakers and actors will jump up and claim they can do it for attention. Those individuals will likely seem radical, because face it, why are they making crazy stuff up in the first place? Mental illness, perhaps, or drug abuse? The existance of a rash of fakers, makes people think all the claims are BS, but that is not a very scientific take on it. I can have a pile of 100 dollars, of which the first 30 tested are poor counterfits, but I can not at that point make the claim that all the bills are fake.

If the person making the claim comes off a seriously mentally ill, or an inmature dramatist, or a blatent drud abuser, then maybe it is safe to shake your head and assume they are full of it. However, I would love to see you come up with the name of two members who claim to have the ability to share dreams reliably with another real individual. Keep in mind that said individuals should have some aire of respectablity, so that we can assume they may be for real. Avoid the members who also state that they smoke 5 types of psycodelic plants, or that make public out bursts that would lead us to the conclusion they are dramatists.

If you can come up with two members who a)seem normal and b)make the claims you refer to, then the argument that they could be tested will hold more weight with me.

Originally Posted by sivason

I also wonder why the emphasis on proving anything? Does God exist? I feel that I know it does, but why the heck should i care if my neighbor thinks so?

That's not the issue here. The issue is with people who want others to believe, and who want others not to demand evidence.

My neighbor wanting proof of God is no concern of mine, as my beliefs make me happy, and I have a life to live. Same thing here. A person can claim to believe they have experienced something, and 'no' the burden of proof is not on them. It is not, because why should they care if anyone else believes. I claim to have had a few hundred LDs that appear to me to have been detailed interaction with entities in a shared dream astral type realm. Good for me. Burden of proof? Why? It is just friendly conversation, I could care less who believes.

But if it's a debate whether or not these things exist, then the burden of proof is indeed on you guys.

Friendly conversation is something entirely different.

Originally Posted by sivason

Most of the claims I am hearing are 1) from me, who claims to interact with entities from a totally differant reality I barely understand, with the occassional unidentified DC who claims to be another dreamer.

May I ask, what leads you to believe that your dreams aren't normal dreams, and that these entities aren't just regular dream characters?

What makes you believe that all of that isn't just a product of your mind?

Originally Posted by Gills

May I ask, what leads you to believe that your dreams aren't normal dreams, and that these entities aren't just regular dream characters?

What makes you believe that all of that isn't just a product of your mind?

There is the possability that the dreams are a product of my mind. The reason I think they are mostly what they appear requires an explaination.

It starts off 20ish years ago. I was happily doing my best to master LDing and was about 5 years into it. I got very intense about discapline and really honed skills in a serious and devoted way. My very first encounter was when I had been having a great LD, but I got bored with responsable training, so I decided to make it a sex dream. That should not be a problem as it is my own brain. I summoned up a woman and massage table by knowing that I would see it if I went around a corner. Yep, there she was. I went closer when I felt something new and weird that made me look behind me. A scary tough guy was there. He had an energy about him that was unlike anything I can explian. It was like a new sense that I had never experienced. Somehow I could feel that he was entirely differant from anything else. He knocked me down for being a pervert and held me down with his knee. I could not uncreate him, so I had to end the dream and intentionaly wake up. This had me scared and freaked out.
For a few months following, I had the feeling of people wtching me and following me in my LDs. I could never catch them and assumed it must be weird paranoia. I had the feeling of being weighed and judged, and that seemed parinoid also, but I decided that it would be a good idea to not act violently or creepy, just incase.
One day I was in an LD and decided to make it another sex dream. I summoned an old friend and took her to a nearby shed. I had her start something when suddenly she was gone and a figure appeared. It had the same weird energy that overwhelmed me and screamed to me 'watch out! this is not part of YOUR dream!.' The figure was of a Greek goddess in toga about 60 years old and very authorarian looking. She was glowing and started raging at me for being such a damb pervert. She went on about how much potential I had and why should she put up with me acting like a stupid prev. I ran for my life! Everything in me told me she was some kind of real creature that had somehow got into my dream. I created a church and ran inside and grabbed a crucifix. Nothing happened. I waited 3 or 4 minutes in the church. As I left a guy was on the porch who also glowed and had the weird energy. I ran for my life again and could not force the dream to end. Finally a 3rd man, the same man who had knocked me down (months before) was in front of me and stopped me with some trick that paralysed me. All three of them came close and examined me, I could not move and it felt like alien abduction stories.
I awoke on my grandma's couch, but it was a false awakening. I realized it was a FA. My grandma was there ballancing some throw pillows in her arms. I told her it was a dream, and she denied it. I pointed out her pillows floated an inch above her arm. She transformed back into the violent male and he paralysed me agian. I could not move or wake. They examined me again, then I woke for real.
That story alone would only be weird, except that it was followed up by more dreams. It was always the same 3 DCs. She was the boss, and the other 2 were always with her. Over about 20 more dreams, she would force me to behave and was always watching me. I finally had a dream were I had decided not to run or freak out. She actually calmly talked to me and told me her name. She was willing to help me learn what was going on and train me. I then had many dozens of LDs spread out over years with the same 3 people. They always had an energy I could detect and it made it clear they were not of my dream. The day she told me her name was the first time the other 2 were missing. I looked around and spotted two cats. The cats glowed with the same energy, and I realized it was them. She then trained me to be abvle to detect them even when they transformed and hid behind buildings. The training went on for years. She spent a lot of time helping me walk through walls, and so on.
The story goes on. It turns out that there was a city that existed somewhere (astral) and I was slowly introduced to other entities. I was eventually, after many years, allowed to go there alone and explore. I even got in trouble there and had to spend time in a detention facility. That lasted for about 20 dreams. I would appear in a caged area and an entity who liked me would visit.
This goes on and on... I could write a book, as it involves well over 200 encounters with them over 20ish years. The DCs were always the same 3, plus some new ones.
I even attended the wedding reception of the woman and the tough guy. I learned that the place was in a shell that kept it solid. It was created by a powerful being. The nature of such a being is beyond my understanding. It also turned out that other shells exist in a chaos if some kind. The nicer man was once human, but claimed to have lived there after his death for 40 years. He taught me (I am still begining to learn it) how to travel to other shells, each having its own people and rules.
The chain of events has now taken 20 years and hundreds of LDs. The things they taught me actually made sense and lead to me being able to do the thing taught. The rules of how things work, have built on themselves, and the stability of the DCs, physical laws, and places has been consitant for the whole time. There's more, but that gives you an idea.


So, I am faced with deciding if it is real. I am convinced, but will leave the possability that it is all in my head. If it is all in my head, it seems like an amazingly elaborate practicle joke my brain has pulled on me for 2 decades running. To me it seems like a clear case of, I may as well believe.

About me, I am 41 and highly educated, with no police record (not even a speeding ticket). By most peoples standards I am the model of success and good behavior.

I am not however one who claims to share dreams with anyone I have met. On occasion, I am intruduced to DCs who claim to be dreamers like me.

There you have it, make what you will of it. I however, do not actually care if anyone believes any thing in paticular. My life is happy, and this weird stuff has been a blessing. If anyone wants to follow the path I did, I will try to help them in the Dream Yoga class, but other than wanting to be helpful, the beliefs of others are of little concern to me.

Originally Posted by Gills

That's not the issue here. The issue is with people who want others to believe, and who want others not to demand evidence.


But if it's a debate whether or not these things exist, then the burden of proof is indeed on you guys.

Friendly conversation is something entirely different.

Hmmm, you have a point. He titled the thread with the word debate. I guess to some minds, that means argue agressively until the opponent is crushed or gives up. That is one valid way to look at debate. I however, perfer an exchange of knowledge, and for debaters to refrain from emotions and attacks. That is just my own take on debate. This thread will mostly just go back and forth between "you can not prove it" and "how can you disprove it" which is a useless time killer. I will probably bow out now, as the competitive concept of debate does little to intrest me.

I also have some dreams, that feels like i am not in my "usual" dreams, i feel out of line and the dream feels odd, yet i find myself not capable of controlling anything in the dream. Which usually i do have good dream control and i totally understand your point about feeling a different sense about a DC or a certain place you are in.
Which means you are totally out of your own realm/dream world.

Originally Posted by sivason

There is the possability that the dreams are a product of my mind. The reason I think they are mostly what they appear requires an explaination.

It starts off 20ish years ago. I was happily doing my best to master LDing and was about 5 years into it. I got very intense about discapline and really honed skills in a serious and devoted way. My very first encounter was when I had been having a great LD, but I got bored with responsable training, so I decided to make it a sex dream. That should not be a problem as it is my own brain. I summoned up a woman and massage table by knowing that I would see it if I went around a corner. Yep, there she was. I went closer when I felt something new and weird that made me look behind me. A scary tough guy was there. He had an energy about him that was unlike anything I can explian. It was like a new sense that I had never experienced. Somehow I could feel that he was entirely differant from anything else. He knocked me down for being a pervert and held me down with his knee. I could not uncreate him, so I had to end the dream and intentionaly wake up. This had me scared and freaked out.
For a few months following, I had the feeling of people wtching me and following me in my LDs. I could never catch them and assumed it must be weird paranoia. I had the feeling of being weighed and judged, and that seemed parinoid also, but I decided that it would be a good idea to not act violently or creepy, just incase.
One day I was in an LD and decided to make it another sex dream. I summoned an old friend and took her to a nearby shed. I had her start something when suddenly she was gone and a figure appeared. It had the same weird energy that overwhelmed me and screamed to me 'watch out! this is not part of YOUR dream!.' The figure was of a Greek goddess in toga about 60 years old and very authorarian looking. She was glowing and started raging at me for being such a damb pervert. She went on about how much potential I had and why should she put up with me acting like a stupid prev. I ran for my life! Everything in me told me she was some kind of real creature that had somehow got into my dream. I created a church and ran inside and grabbed a crucifix. Nothing happened. I waited 3 or 4 minutes in the church. As I left a guy was on the porch who also glowed and had the weird energy. I ran for my life again and could not force the dream to end. Finally a 3rd man, the same man who had knocked me down (months before) was in front of me and stopped me with some trick that paralysed me. All three of them came close and examined me, I could not move and it felt like alien abduction stories.
I awoke on my grandma's couch, but it was a false awakening. I realized it was a FA. My grandma was there ballancing some throw pillows in her arms. I told her it was a dream, and she denied it. I pointed out her pillows floated an inch above her arm. She transformed back into the violent male and he paralysed me agian. I could not move or wake. They examined me again, then I woke for real.
That story alone would only be weird, except that it was followed up by more dreams. It was always the same 3 DCs. She was the boss, and the other 2 were always with her. Over about 20 more dreams, she would force me to behave and was always watching me. I finally had a dream were I had decided not to run or freak out. She actually calmly talked to me and told me her name. She was willing to help me learn what was going on and train me. I then had many dozens of LDs spread out over years with the same 3 people. They always had an energy I could detect and it made it clear they were not of my dream. The day she told me her name was the first time the other 2 were missing. I looked around and spotted two cats. The cats glowed with the same energy, and I realized it was them. She then trained me to be abvle to detect them even when they transformed and hid behind buildings. The training went on for years. She spent a lot of time helping me walk through walls, and so on.
The story goes on. It turns out that there was a city that existed somewhere (astral) and I was slowly introduced to other entities. I was eventually, after many years, allowed to go there alone and explore. I even got in trouble there and had to spend time in a detention facility. That lasted for about 20 dreams. I would appear in a caged area and an entity who liked me would visit.
This goes on and on... I could write a book, as it involves well over 200 encounters with them over 20ish years. The DCs were always the same 3, plus some new ones.
I even attended the wedding reception of the woman and the tough guy. I learned that the place was in a shell that kept it solid. It was created by a powerful being. The nature of such a being is beyond my understanding. It also turned out that other shells exist in a chaos if some kind. The nicer man was once human, but claimed to have lived there after his death for 40 years. He taught me (I am still begining to learn it) how to travel to other shells, each having its own people and rules.
The chain of events has now taken 20 years and hundreds of LDs. The things they taught me actually made sense and lead to me being able to do the thing taught. The rules of how things work, have built on themselves, and the stability of the DCs, physical laws, and places has been consitant for the whole time. There's more, but that gives you an idea.


So, I am faced with deciding if it is real. I am convinced, but will leave the possability that it is all in my head. If it is all in my head, it seems like an amazingly elaborate practicle joke my brain has pulled on me for 2 decades running. To me it seems like a clear case of, I may as well believe.

About me, I am 41 and highly educated, with no police record (not even a speeding ticket). By most peoples standards I am the model of success and good behavior.

I am not however one who claims to share dreams with anyone I have met. On occasion, I am intruduced to DCs who claim to be dreamers like me.

There you have it, make what you will of it. I however, do not actually care if anyone believes any thing in paticular. My life is happy, and this weird stuff has been a blessing. If anyone wants to follow the path I did, I will try to help them in the Dream Yoga class, but other than wanting to be helpful, the beliefs of others are of little concern to me.











Hmmm, you have a point. He titled the thread with the word debate. I guess to some minds, that means argue agressively until the opponent is crushed or gives up. That is one valid way to look at debate. I however, perfer an exchange of knowledge, and for debaters to refrain from emotions and attacks. That is just my own take on debate. This thread will mostly just go back and forth between "you can not prove it" and "how can you disprove it" which is a useless time killer. I will probably bow out now, as the competitive concept of debate does little to intrest me.

Originally Posted by Gills

That's not the issue here. The issue is with people who want others to believe, and who want others not to demand evidence.


But if it's a debate whether or not these things exist, then the burden of proof is indeed on you guys.

Friendly conversation is something entirely different.

To me, there is a problem with this argument. Naturally, we want to all agree on what is real and fake. However, if you continually demand proof on existence, this essentially stonewalls any discussion on what is actually happening. What I mean by actually happening is the individual's experience. This is purely a philosophical debate for me and like Sivason, I could care less who believes.

What seems to be happening is quite usual; we are identifying a certain "type" in others as a precedent for communication. In other words, what is being said is: "If we can't agree on this, then there is no need for discussion". This idea is used often in the argument for the literal interpretation of sacred texts (the bible, koran, torah etc.).

We are attempting to establish who views the world like us, then push out any point of view that disagrees with our group ideal.

Someone says: "Dude, check out this awesome shared dream I had"...other person reads it and says: "How do you prove it is real?"

Well my friends, all this person is asking is for you to empathize with their experience, not proof read their metaphorical paper. The debate with shared dreaming isn't about proof. That does not exist in the world of dreams; the metaphorical images in your mind don't follow the same rules you are accustomed to in waking life.
Indeed, Lucid Dreaming and Shared Dreaming are completely different in that way. Lucidly, one can verify experience, whereas in Shared Dreaming, information is very much shared. One person lets the other try on their shirt. It changes one piece of the outfit, not the whole thing...and yet, the whole picture has changed. An astute dreamer knows what signs to look for, and what dream images are typical for them.

We are all asking for studies of this when the experience, IF it exists lies inside of each of us. Personally, I have experienced enough of the dream world to accept the reality of Shared Dreams. There are other things/creatures you can communicate through dreams as well. And certainly, if I accept communicating with animals, or "inert material" in dream, I don't think humans would be all that difficult. It seems also, intentionality would be essential since humans have natural defenses attached to just about everything in site.

Anyways, Im a wind bag, or a bag of wind mixed with light....Gettin things mixed down there for a day or ten.

Light travels at 186,000 Miles PER SECOND..........I'm beginning to think the joke is on us...The atom is pure energy. There is stuff much smaller than atoms and its all held together by invisible opposing forces of magnetism. It has been proven that brains respond emotionally to changes in certain electromagnetic frequencies. If I remember, we operate at 6hz or 8hz, something like that. It has also been proven the human body maintains a bio-magnetic field of energy surrounding the body. These are just examples of invisible energy which humans utilize and interact with on a daily basis.

Everything is connected.

Some wonder why knowledge and study hasn't already occurred. The scientific revolution is barely a child in terms of human existence. We have existed as we are for 100,000 years on this planet. Science has existed less than half a millennium. Yet if it exists, we surely should have found it by now! Look at our vast amounts of knowledge!! We collect it like a mad man, obsessed with treasures of the mind.
Carl Jung, the founder of analytical psychology, developed the basis for Shared Dreaming. He called it the collective unconscious. The man was pure genius, and was for a time Freud's best student before they parted ways. Jung collected dreams of his own patients and patients of his students and colleges. He spent decades collecting dreams.
There is a lot of material on Jung and his works. Yet, he is not taught in a public high school text book in my hometown. Freud, with his laughable theories, is revered as the father of psychology. The same happened to Nikola Tesla, whose discoveries in the physical world were met with disbelief and outrage.
Do some research surrounding these men, and Shared Dreaming will seem simplistic amidst the mosaic of the big picture.

Well said, Chimpertainment, save that last bit.

When Jung talked about collective unconsciousness, he was not being literal. He was not saying that we all share an unconscious mind collectively, but that we all operate under the same psychic rules, referencing the same archetypes when interpreting our reality. There was no shared-dreaming going on.

That said, from what I understand, I think that if you mentioned shared-dreaming to Jung (or Freud, for that matter), he likely would have had no problem with its existence, especially toward the end of his life... But Jung, Freud, and even Tesla's "big picture" never included shared-dreaming. That is not what Jung was talking about.

Sorry for being nit-picky; I always react this way when Jung's concept of gestalt gets turned into something magical.

Aside from that, though, you are right on the money; it would be awfully nice if we could toss aside, for just a few posts, the whole "Prove it!" "Prove it isn't!" pissing contest and actually debate the condition of shared dreaming, and what it's reality would imply...

Sivason, even though I don't really see anything in that story of yours that makes me believe it's anything more than "complex" dreams (but still dreams, nonetheless), I enjoyed reading it very much.

It's very interesting, and I appreciate you taking the time to write that much text.

Yes Sageous, I added my own idea..and people would find that out when they research his ideas

Yet, without the collective unconscious, would shared dreaming be possible? I dare say it would be the basis of such interactions. Once again, my own added idea, and I suppose I should have said as much for Jung's sake...so there it is.

Jung witnessed shared dreaming himself but of course drawing conclusions would have been difficult.

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

Yes Sageous, I added my own idea..and people would find that out when they research his ideas

Fair enough!

... without the collective unconscious, would shared dreaming be possible?

Not a chance. Given that the universe doesn't speak our language, and perception varies from person to person, the universal archetypes, the collective unconscious, that Jung speaks about must exist in order for us to understand each other when we're in each other's dreams (or in the same room with them in waking life, for that matter!).

If dreamers meet without some symbols or metaphor they can share, communication, or perhaps even the knowledge that they met, would be impossible.

Which gets me thinking: what if those archetypes aren't as universal as Jung, or we, assume?

Could it be that those few who do grasp the archetypes while dreaming, or rather while lucid, are the only ones who understand that there are other people in their dreams, and can potentially communicate with their (the other people's) avatars? And maybe those few are also the ones who claim, without question, that shared dreaming is possible?

And then shared dreaming might just be a product of cognitive evolution, currently enjoyed by just a few of us naturally, but potentially available to all, provided we choose to pay attention to the archetypes ... that might also explain why it's a relatively new addition to our cognitive history!

Or I'm losing my sanity for the evening.

a sweet link I have found on the entarwebs...

Mutual Dreaming: Is Group Dreaming Possible?

Sageous, you are onto something

Jung described archetypes as visual representations of specific naturally occurring elements within the human psyche. While experiencing dream elements, typically energy will be interpreted into "sensory inputs" that we experience in waking life. Within the dream world however, the elements of the dream go beyond imagery, sound, touch, smell, etc...There is a fundamental energy present within the dream which brings about the existence of the image or metaphor.
If we then extrapolate this "assumption" shall we say; when shared dreaming occurs, individual specific energy would be communicated to the other through archetypal imagery. Then as awareness of that world increases, so also the perception of the archetypal images would also shift and change. The possibilities seem endless already, and we haven't yet scratched the surface.

All of this to me is still hypothetical since my experience is very limited. One task I am setting myself to is to lucidly travel to Thomas Square to meet with Waking Nomad. It is time in my life that I make a change and changing my world at the same time.

Change is what we are, my friends...

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

a sweet link I have found on the entarwebs...

Mutual Dreaming: Is Group Dreaming Possible?

Thanks for posting this link. I like how the article distinguishes between the two types of shared dreams, meshing dreams, which everyone can agree are possible, and meeting dreams .

Here's a few questions: For those who have had shared dreaming experiences, do you think of them as meshing dreams (where two people dream about the same content, but may not actually be sharing a dreamspace) or meeting dreams.

For those who believe in shared dreaming do you think shared dreaming is possible because the dream plane is a real place where people can meet, or that shared dreaming is possible because we are capable of telepathic communication?

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

Thanks for posting this link. I like how the article distinguishes between the two types of shared dreams, meshing dreams, which everyone can agree are possible, and meeting dreams .

Here's a few questions: For those who have had shared dreaming experiences, do you think of them as meshing dreams (where two people dream about the same content, but may not actually be sharing a dreamspace) or meeting dreams.

For those who believe in shared dreaming do you think shared dreaming is possible because the dream plane is a real place where people can meet, or that shared dreaming is possible because we are capable of telepathic communication?

You can probably guess that I feel there is a dream realm that exists outside off our selves. I also believe we each have a private dream area that is inside our head. It is also possable that some types of shared dreams are due to telepathic communication, but that is outside my own personal realm of knowledge. my experience has lead me to believe dreams can be a door way to what I will call astral realms, simply for lack of a better term.

Sageous and Chimpertainment, I like your line of thought on archetypes. It seems to mesh with what I believe I understand. The idea of a distinct energy signature for each person, which is then interperated through archetype imagery feels right somehow. It makes me think of the woman's companions I mentioned. Eventually I could recognize them no matter their form or if dream imagery walls were in the way. It is like I read some kind of energy signature, that specifiaclly identified the individuals, even when the images changed. Great line of thought!

Haven't seen this thread actually.... So I voted yes, I have experienced it.
I don't wanna debate about Sding, I would rather practice Sding to gain more experience and skills, and then study to prove it somehow.

It was so much fun reading all posts here - took an hour - I love you all DV people! ^.^

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

Everything is connected.

Lol! Look at my user title

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

Sageous, you are onto something

Jung described archetypes as visual representations of specific naturally occurring elements within the human psyche. While experiencing dream elements, typically energy will be interpreted into "sensory inputs" that we experience in waking life. Within the dream world however, the elements of the dream go beyond imagery, sound, touch, smell, etc...There is a fundamental energy present within the dream which brings about the existence of the image or metaphor.

If we then extrapolate this "assumption" shall we say; when shared dreaming occurs, individual specific energy would be communicated to the other through archetypal imagery. Then as awareness of that world increases, so also the perception of the archetypal images would also shift and change. The possibilities seem endless already, and we haven't yet scratched the surface.

I may be on to something, Chimpertainment, but it sure sounds better when you describe it!

That something still has a major flaw, though, which occurred to me after I posted. Though the potential for archetypical communication is both interesting and, I think, critical, the potential for missed communication is as high as ever. This is because even though energy is being exchanged, the chaos of dreaming allows a dreamer to completely ignore the significance of that exchange ... which is why I am always reticent to harm DC's, as the pain I inflict might be felt (archetypically as well, but don't ask me how) by a real person for whom the DC is standing as avatar.

In other words, even for serendipitous dream-sharing, both dreamers must be paying serious attention to the events, symbols, and DC's of their dreams, and must possess a natural knack or well-founded expectation to recognize things in the dream that might not be theirs, and therefore could be sourced in another soul. As I think I said above (too lazy to look), we could all be immersed in a crowd of other dreamers, but most if not all of us lack the mental wiring to notice.

Of course, you'd think the mere act of talking or reading about it might make us finally able to notice but:

All of this to me is still hypothetical since my experience is very limited. One task I am setting myself to is to lucidly travel to Thomas Square to meet with Waking Nomad. It is time in my life that I make a change and changing my world at the same time.

I've been to Thomas Square a half-dozen times already, and haven't seen hide nor hair of WakingNomad; the place is usually deserted, or at best sparsely staffed with stereotypical "park people" who just look at me funny when I ask about Mr. Nomad. But it could be that I simply couldn't notice, or my avatar -- however i appeared -- went unnoticed my him; the opportunity for archetypical energy exchange simply could not happen for lack of mutual attention. Or else I was never actually there...Perhaps I'll try again someday -- I usually do so when Nomad makes a post that makes me think (or pisses me off).

... That last bit just made me think of something else: all archetypical stuff aside, there is still the problem of finding a specific person with whom to share a dream, because their "energy signature" is unique and therefore cannot have an recognizable archetype attached to it. Given the 7 billion souls that we know of in this world, finding a specific person on purpose seems akin to shooting a spitball from the top of Mt Everest and having it land dead center in a thimble placed in a cave at the base of K2 -- all the while planning to hit just that thimble.. That difficulty might be assuaged a bit, though, by navigational aids like Nomad's Thomas Square and some clever timing, though...

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

Thanks for posting this link. I like how the article distinguishes between the two types of shared dreams, meshing dreams, which everyone can agree are possible, and meeting dreams .

Here's a few questions: For those who have had shared dreaming experiences, do you think of them as meshing dreams (where two people dream about the same content, but may not actually be sharing a dreamspace) or meeting dreams.

For those who believe in shared dreaming do you think shared dreaming is possible because the dream plane is a real place where people can meet, or that shared dreaming is possible because we are capable of telepathic communication?

Telepathic

^^ Telepathic. Though I respect Sivason's opinion and experience, I was never much of a fan of astral realms.

I had another thought that might negate my negative Everest analogy above: While thinking about the daunting task of finding another person in the vast sea of dreaming minds, I realized that maybe you don't need to go to such lengths.

Why?

Well, I got to thinking of the "wave" description someone on one of the many recent dream-sharing threads (perhaps this one?) gave of the possible shape of the energy that enables dream-sharing. And then I thought about the anecdotal evidence that implied this energy defies the known laws of physics -- outrunning light, and perhaps ignoring time. I put the two thoughts together, and came up with this:

What if the thought energy produced by a dreamer were transmitted in wave form? Wouldn't it then be emitted in all directions at the same time, then? And, given that time & space have no sway on this energy, wouldn't it be "everywhere" instantly? Maybe not, but I hope the actual scientists out there hold of their arguments and assume for a moment that this could be the case.

So what do we have? Instead of a dreamer searching one point at a time in the hopes of finding his target, we have the dreamer projecting his thought energy, in this case the context of his dream or perhaps just confirmation of his presence (some sort of archetypical shout of "I am here!" without, of course, useless words). So, in an instant, his personal "signature" is everywhere. Instead of looking for his target, he has placed himself everywhere, guaranteeing that his target will be touched by his presence.

Trouble is, everyone else on the planet is doing the same thing, though usually by the accident of normal dreaming, and not with the intention of communication. So the dreamer's target is still fully bathed in the energy of billions of dreamers, but, just like we are always bathed in the energy of uncounted microwave transmission but our phone will only ring when it recognizes a specific wave meant only for it, perhaps the dreamer's target can single out the sender's signal because his signature is the one for which he is looking.

So there is no impossible targeting at all; we're all in touch all the time, and sharing is simply a matter of allowing our dreaming selves to listen for one specific signature. There is still a catch, given that the sender's signature, though unique, is not clearly labeled, so there would need to be a novel method of ID indeed. But there is that thought on evolution I had earlier, plus the equally novel and perhaps more flexible condition of LD'ing, as well as the "homing" metaphor suggested by WakingNomad's Thomas Square challenge. Put all that together, and there might just be a way to find another person in the vast sea of souls, and, given the nature of this thought energy, that person can be found at an physical distance with possibly no concern for time.

Oh, and for what it's worth, this also works for Sivason's dreaming plane collective, because in a sense that is a metaphoric shape that all these transmissions might form, conceptually.

This is likely all just incorrect, incomprehensible babble that stands insane physics-wise, or just obvious stuff that you guys all know about. But it seems to cover all the troubling bases and gives us a little clay to play with while we're forming what's actually going on in dream-sharing. But it wouldn't leave my head so it seemed only fair to put into yours as well. Plus there's no need now to climb Everest to launch a spitball into a thimble!

@Sageous, I don't know if you know this or not, but Teal Scott goes into great depth of mentioning things like thought energy and such. I actually made a post here related to thought energy, and how it can help with changing one's beliefs (especially with the complex ambitions on both sides of skeptics and believers), but I figured I was just talking to myself in the tl;dr post I edited out.

She has some interesting videos on YouTube related to things like that, and much more. She's called "Spiritual Catalyst" on Youtube.

I'm sorry, I just wanted to mention that if you're interested.

And as for the personal "signature," I personally agree with this, as one's own allowance of being open to things such as this, having an ambition that wants to find the answers, the greater the thought energy will be.