Thread: If Astral Projection is a Lucid Dream so why ...

Originally Posted by wwfjdraw

Here's my problem. And I hate to by a whinny baby about my problems to complete strangers especially when it is about something that is so personal, but I do not know where else to turn to, and was really hoping someone, ANYONE could please shed some light and give me the answers that I seek.

A atheist friend of mine has basically proven to me (without even trying hard at all) that there is no afterlife, that once we die, that is it.

I of course after months of research and stress can not live with the thought of never existing after I die in any conscious way.

I found out about, a challenge made by someone who would give over a million dollars to anyone who could please just prove once and for all in a controlled setting that this OBE or AP belief is real to the point where at least ONE person can claim the money. So far to this day, nothing. NO proof, and no claims.

I heard all the boo hoo excuses of how it is bad karma money, or how money is not important, and blah blah blah.

Then damn it do for free and give the money away to charity.

I do not understand what to believe anymore. Can someone please use reason and logic to help me. Because as far as I am concerned, there is no point of living, I am very depressed with this realization, and I know it is not anyone job to make me feel better. But I can not understand how if there are so many people who make the claims that they can make, but yet no one wants the money? Or at least to prove it is real?

Please someone help me with this. Thank you.
Signed,
Sincerely MR.depressed, and afraid of the infinite end.

LOL Relax! No one can prove you that afterlife don't exist!
Even science is silent about it!
Of course no one proved (scientifically) that afterlife exist. It is something that is beyond our actual science and their tools.

Atheist means that he doesn't believe in god. But it remains a belief.
No one know nothing about God, not even if he exists or not. We as humans don't know that. We have only beliefs.
One can believe that god exist and the other can believe that he do not exist! But no one KNOW for sure.
It is the same with the afterlife.

But there is your experience, like the yoga of dreams, dream yoga.
There is buddhist monks who practice it and so many other people in the world that experience everyday the "afterlife".
But talking about it is meaningless, because it is just reading. And some will say you that I'm wrong.
That is why it is important to have your own experience. And once you have it no one can contradict what you have experienced.
I, myself have a conviction that I'm a soul, a conscioussness. I have a temporal body... The thing that thinks is notmy brain. The brain recieve it.
I can read whatever you want that contradict, you can tell me wathever you want but nothing can contradict that experiences.
That is why buddhist monks are not interested if science or others confirmation. They have that inner knowlege.
Once you have your experience there is nothing more needed.

Originally Posted by wwfjdraw

Here's my problem. And I hate to by a whinny baby about my problems to complete strangers especially when it is about something that is so personal, but I do not know where else to turn to, and was really hoping someone, ANYONE could please shed some light and give me the answers that I seek.

A atheist friend of mine has basically proven to me (without even trying hard at all) that there is no afterlife, that once we die, that is it.

I of course after months of research and stress can not live with the thought of never existing after I die in any conscious way.

I found out about, a challenge made by someone who would give over a million dollars to anyone who could please just prove once and for all in a controlled setting that this OBE or AP belief is real to the point where at least ONE person can claim the money. So far to this day, nothing. NO proof, and no claims.

I heard all the boo hoo excuses of how it is bad karma money, or how money is not important, and blah blah blah.

Then damn it do for free and give the money away to charity.

I do not understand what to believe anymore. Can someone please use reason and logic to help me. Because as far as I am concerned, there is no point of living, I am very depressed with this realization, and I know it is not anyone job to make me feel better. But I can not understand how if there are so many people who make the claims that they can make, but yet no one wants the money? Or at least to prove it is real?

Please someone help me with this. Thank you.
Signed,
Sincerely MR.depressed, and afraid of the infinite end.

Well, wwfjdraw

I think the problem is that we people (in 2014) have a very limited way of thinking. That's not our fault. The words are not yet available to discuss the "real" truth, yet.

So

The conclusions we come to cannot be correct.

Concerning truth (live after death) without the words (concepts) to communicate what we mean to each other... That's the rub.

I will give you an example.

Example:

You do not exist (!!! Wat!!!)

Because

We are *one being* in billions of individual bodies. That "one being" is the only intelligence in the universe. And that "one being" lives in "one moment" through-out the entire timeline from the BigBang to Absolute Zero (the end of time and space)

Now wwfjdraw

Any experiments to prove the afterlife not based on that (mind boggling) truth, will fall flat on its face.

I GIVE $1000 TRILLIONS TO PEOPLE WHO CAN PROVE THAT WE ARE ONLY MEAT... Or that consciousness die with the body.
It is easy to say I will give you money if you prove me that afetrlife exits...
There is no way to prove it. It is beyond physical, it is beyond actual scientific tools. They don't even understand atoms completly!
They know so little... But there is your experience which is priceless.
If you are really interested go talk with real experts of the mind... Buddhist monks.
Scientist can only observe the brain that's it! Searching the consciousness in the brain is like searching actors in the TV.

Originally Posted by astralboy

I GIVE $1000 TRILLIONS TO PEOPLE WHO CAN PROVE THAT WE ARE ONLY MEAT... Or that consciousness die with the body.
It is easy to say I will give you money if you prove me that afetrlife exits...
There is no way to prove it. It is beyond physical, it is beyond actual scientific tools. They don't even understand atoms completly!
They know so little... But there is your experience which is priceless.
If you are really interested go talk with real experts of the mind... Buddhist monks.
Scientist can only observe the brain that's it! Searching the consciousness in the brain is like searching actors in the TV.

I just wish I could have someone who is a master of this stuff be able to come to my house while I am sleeping, and yank me out of my f-ing body and just prove it to me once and for all. If this is a thing about permission, believe me you have my permission. If this is about, money, believe me if I experienced this and no longer had to fear death, then you can bet your bottom cent that I would happily and gladly pay anything short of putting me out on the streets for this gift.

Does anyone know if this is possible? Or does anyone know where I can find experts like this? In the meantime so not to seem lazy and disrespectful, I am trying and failing continuously to do everything I can on my end.

How did your friend convince you? It is hard to imagine what proof he offered.

Originally Posted by sivason

How did your friend convince you? It is hard to imagine what proof he offered.

We watched stuff on youtube showing Bill Maher and another atheist talking about how NDEs and everything is just hallucinations that once your dead, your dead. The Randi challange, the stuff on youtube showing taps and ghost hunters and fakes, the fact that Steven Hawking who is believes that once your dead, that is it, and you would think that someone who is in a chair like him with a mind like his, has tried it all in regards to trying to OBE rather than not.
Also many more articles upon articles upon articles that just make it seem impossible to believe unless I finally experience it myself.

Hawking and others being the most brilliant people in the world say it with so much certainty.

Even though they have not died themselves to know any better, it still bothers me.

Especially when this is coming from the most brilliant minds known to man.

It sounds to me like a hard sale to convert you to his religion. Atheists may be angry to be called a religion, but the people I have interacted with, exibit every sign of following a religion. And this includes a hard sale form of attempting to convert people.

It is not my task to teach you about God, but I will spend a couple minutes addressing you. Why do you need to see something that can not be explained to feel like something powerful and amazing is happening? I will give you an example. If the one time you choose to watch a handful of dice be tossed, and all of them come up one, well that can be explained. Say 12 dice, well then roughly once every say 2,000,000 it is logical for it to come up all ones. Logically the one time you looked was simply that 2 millionth time. Right? Isn't that clear? Freak no! No, if the one time I look, 12 dice come up ones, it is a freaking miracle. Now look at something as simple as a fruit tree. The chances of a random cloud of hydrogen, become a cherry tree has to be way less than 2 million to one. So why not accept it as a miracle? Take a serious look around, and see how perfectly the universe has become. Contemplate everything you know about water. If it was any different, then life would probably not work. So hydrogen can become oxygen in the heart of a star. Then it happens to form a chemical when combined with more hydrogen, that is the most wonderfully perfect chemical for life anyone could dream of. Because we can understand how it ends up happening, it is the amazing construct, that we analyze with science that should give you faith (science should enhance faith, not remove it).

Originally Posted by wwfjdraw

I just wish I could have someone who is a master of this stuff be able to come to my house while I am sleeping, and yank me out of my f-ing body and just prove it to me once and for all. If this is a thing about permission, believe me you have my permission. If this is about, money, believe me if I experienced this and no longer had to fear death, then you can bet your bottom cent that I would happily and gladly pay anything short of putting me out on the streets for this gift.

Does anyone know if this is possible? Or does anyone know where I can find experts like this? In the meantime so not to seem lazy and disrespectful, I am trying and failing continuously to do everything I can on my end.

You don't understand. A projection in the physical dimension is very difficult. And even when you do it you percieve much more than with your physical eyes.
You can see the place, your room for exemple, but in the same time you see its past, its future, and all the probabilities possible. It is even possible that you don't see matter as matter but only energy. People who ask that prof are totaly ignorant about what matter is.
I wish I could have someone who master this too to prove me that I'm meat and that my conscioussness is mortal,
that there is nothing after the death of the body I never find that person... And there is no man in this world who know for sure that there is nothing after.

You see it depends what you want to see. The people who don't believe in it search things that goes with their beliefs. They will only read the things that contradict afterlife. The people who believe find proofs every day of the afterlife.

But if you want to just have an astral projection, lucid dream, out of body experience you don't have to search a "master".
There is WILD techniques. Or Deild. The technique is the same for everyone. But what you do with it and your comprehension of your experiences will prove much thing to you. It is a bad idea to ask people to do things for you. Be your master. Let your experiences be your teacher.

What Wild Techniques?.

WILD = wake induced lucid dreaming... Its just a dream.
Now OBE is something different. I had for example yesterday three OBE in about 1.5 hour. I don't use imagination at all. I use relaxation of body(second nature after nearly 30 years of autogenic training) and concentration on being(existence) only. When the concentration and relaxation is right then separation is possible. I feel it like there is second body permeating physical one. I usualy don't wait to spontaneous separation, because waiting leads me into thoughtless meditation with closed senses. As I feel second body I simply start to roll out of body, or sit up, or float up... Rolling is for me simplest and most effective method going out.