Thread: Michael Raduga's The Phase?

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

No Naya, that wouldn't be proof... Even I can get accurate info from distant locations using remote viewing

You can remote view?... ~_~

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

Well, as Kaan experienced again last night, vibrations are quite common in WILDS, I know that too. So, the differences are not as pronounced and depending on ones belief system there might not be any differences at all... Anyway, the only objective way to prove that OBEs involve a real projection and not just remote data acquisition, would be through a controlled experimental setup like the ones I proposed. But I don't think we can prove anything here and I also don't think that it's important. I agree with Vince in that, what we do with the experience is what matters...

I believe it is possible that many people may be astral projecting while believing that they are having a WILD. Also, as I've also explained, there may be aspects of both types of experiences during a single projection, and one type of projection can quickly and easily shift into another. My WILDs have been direct mind projections with no exit sensations. I believe the ability to distinguish one type of experience from another is the factor that is separating our opinions here.

Few months back i try one expedimnet with frend it was about travel to his shmaman reality (something like personal dreamword in another dimension)
And try creating some object there . He found it and move to another loaction in his dream word where i foud it later . We do another few test but very basic ones.
This expedimnets do not provide any good proof but interesting that i can change something in time he is not there . The reality act like separate thing with "memory" not like dream and it was stable .
I check how i get info and look if i use direct connection to him "telepathy" or only to the separate dream word.
He precieved object i created in very diffrent way but in right place . I travel there in normal waykfullnes during the day in open eyes and my prection was concept like witch few short weak flashes of images.
To precive his dreamworld in similar way he precive it i must use similar translation/belief system. If i use diffrent one i precive same basic information but shown in very different way.
* this is only subjective experinece dount ment to by scientific
*it be posibble prove shared dream reality this way but is still not enought to found what this reality is or where is it.

Whole exit sensation is only sensory illusion is relatively easi to prove. Astral body is only a construct from various data same like preception of physical body . If you can manipulate the data or way how it integrate together you can change body preception. In OOBE you usualy must create dream body it not exist you create it if you need it as a projection to help you precive information .

https://brmlab.cz/project/brain_hacking/msi2

Do you know any fealings that are only in OOBE (astral travel ) and not in LD, WILD ?

Thank you all for sharing your point of view.
these conversations are always interesting when different way of seeing things are discussed.
But even if Raduga's teaching put LD, SP, OBE in the same "The Phase" concept, maybe we have gone a little bit too long on a kind of Off topic.

I suggest we come back to the Technique by itself and our succes/fails on trying this.
Agree?

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

You can remote view?... ~_~

Yes, but Pm me if you want any details.
Like Kaan said, we've gone too far off-topic here!

Originally Posted by VinceField

I believe it is possible that many people may be astral projecting while believing that they are having a WILD. Also, as I've also explained, there may be aspects of both types of experiences during a single projection, and one type of projection can quickly and easily shift into another. My WILDs have been direct mind projections with no exit sensations. I believe the ability to distinguish one type of experience from another is the factor that is separating our opinions here.

I believe it is possible that many people may be having a WILD while believing that they are astral projecting. I have never heard of a single thing that supposedly characterizes astral projections that I have not personally experienced in my WILDs: vibrations, exit sensations, projecting directly into a lifelike version of my own bedroom, etc etc. You've had hundreds of these experiences and believe that you can detect differences between the WILD and AP. I've had hundreds of experiences and believe that they are functionally indistinguishable and both a product of the dreamstate.

There is no resolution to this divergence of opinions based purely on subjective reporting, but I do ask, based on Occam's Razor, if there is anything useful about the distinction that you are making? The only useful distinction I could imagine would be if, as some people in this thread have challenged, verifiable RL information can be reported after an astral experience. If not, what's the point of making the distinction at all? If so, get it done already. Otherwise, debating the issue is pointless.

Arguably, I think it seems reasonable that the burden of proof should be on those who are trying to subtanstiate the existence of additional entities, states, or "planes" if you must (following Occam again). There is no effective way to prove that something implausible (chupa cabra, Easter Bunny, astral planes) doesn't exist, but you cannot expect other people to embrace your belief in these things without providing some kind of reasonable evidence for their existence.... especially if they've had similar experiences to those you describe and come to different conclusions.

Originally Posted by Verre

I believe it is possible that many people may be having a WILD while believing that they are astral projecting. I have never heard of a single thing that supposedly characterizes astral projections that I have not personally experienced in my WILDs: vibrations, exit sensations, projecting directly into a lifelike version of my own bedroom, etc etc. You've had hundreds of these experiences and believe that you can detect differences between the WILD and AP. I've had hundreds of experiences and believe that they are functionally indistinguishable and both a product of the dreamstate.

There is no resolution to this divergence of opinions based purely on subjective reporting, but I do ask, based on Occam's Razor, if there is anything useful about the distinction that you are making? The only useful distinction I could imagine would be if, as some people in this thread have challenged, verifiable RL information can be reported after an astral experience. If not, what's the point of making the distinction at all? If so, get it done already. Otherwise, debating the issue is pointless.

Arguably, I think it seems reasonable that the burden of proof should be on those who are trying to subtanstiate the existence of additional entities, states, or "planes" if you must (following Occam again). There is no effective way to prove that something implausible (chupa cabra, Easter Bunny, astral planes) doesn't exist, but you cannot expect other people to embrace your belief in these things without providing some kind of reasonable evidence for their existence.... especially if they've had similar experiences to those you describe and come to different conclusions.

I'm sure that many people do have WILDs and believe they are astral projections. I don't believe it is always important to differentiate LDs from APs, as they are essentially an experience of the same nonphysical reality, simply experienced from somewhat different reference points. I agree that it is important to determine the usefulness of one's beliefs, and in this respect, I do see benefit in understanding that these experiences aren't simply just a insubstantial creation of the dream state, but are actual experiences of a nonphysical universe existing at a higher frequency than the physical dimension. I have spoken with some who do not understand the potential for the acquisition of true spiritual knowledge and personal transformation because they lump these experiences into the category of "dream," and to them, dreams are imaginary. So believing that true spiritual realities can be accessed may very well lead to the investigation and subsequent discoveries and knowledge of one's spiritual nature, whereas believing that one's LDs/APs are simply imaginary dream creations will unlikely give rise to the desire to gain anything of significance from them other than a good time, making one's practice little more than a series of wasted opportunities.

If I hadn't investigated the differences between these modes of consciousness projection, I would probably also believe that they were all the same. Some people have the desire to better understand the nature of their experience. Although, again, I agree that the importance is not in distinguishing one type of projection from another just for the sake of getting the names right, but what is important is what we do with the experiences, and so this distinction is largely important in it's ability to open our minds to explore new possibilities of experience and growth.

Take care

" I do see benefit in understanding that these experiences aren't simply just a insubstantial creation of the dream state, but are actual experiences of a nonphysical universe existing at a higher frequency than the physical dimension. I have spoken with some who do not understand the potential for the acquisition of true spiritual knowledge "

bye using the term "understanding" it sounds like you are still affirming that the following "these experiences aren't simply just a insubstantial creation of the dream state, but are actual experiences of a nonphysical universe existing at a higher frequency than the physical dimension." are facts and not only possibilities.

This is exactly why I entered in this Arguing game, and also Why I suggest that we should exit from this endless ping pong match.

let's come back to the real game : the technique and the results.

Originally Posted by Kaan

bye using the term "understanding" it sounds like you are still affirming that the following "these experiences aren't simply just a insubstantial creation of the dream state, but are actual experiences of a nonphysical universe existing at a higher frequency than the physical dimension." are facts and not only possibilities.

This is a strong possibility according to my perspective, although I don't believe absolute truth is attainable in this regard as long as we are using a human mind. However, this is not the purpose of that statement. The idea is that this understanding is potentially more beneficial in terms of the results that it brings about compared to the belief that the experiences are simply illusions or delusions.

This is exactly why I entered in this Arguing game, and also Why I suggest that we should exit from this endless ping pong match.

Arguing game? I can only speak for myself, but all I am doing is peacefully sharing my perspective, although I haven't perceived any hostility from anyone else either. I consider this a friendly discussion, one that all parties involved may learn from.

Vince you really should stop trying to convince people, it's literally purposeless. You know what you know and you've experienced the things you have, which is great for you. If someone else is to find out, it'll happen to them sooner or later, we mustn't intervene.

Now, to get back on topic as Kaan rightfully suggested..
I had an odd phase this morning.. I woke up at some point in the early morning and didn't even have time to remember to remain still and relaxed, I immediately started to feel some vibrations and, unusually, the feeling that I was being spun around from my waist (I didn't try to do that), but not just my dream body, I could feel the blanket move too. I freaked out a little, did a "handsfree" nose pinch RC, but I couldn't breathe for some reason. I remember I tried for quite a while to exit or find myself in a different place, but this time it just did not work.. I blacked out after what felt like a minute, which is quite a while to me, usually I'm out in less than 10 seconds.

^^ Odd experience indeed!

And yes, there are already many threads here on whether or not astrals are lucids and we can always create new ones... We've already gone quite far off-topic here, let's get back to Raduga!

------------
Last night I used my Rem Dreamer to help me with Phasing and had a very intense and exciting experience!
Basically, I wanted to test whether intention can influence experience, and guess what: I had an OBE and was in my house (same memory after awakening) for the first time...
I also had a lucid and 3 FA...
So, if I manage to repeat this consistently, I might set up some experiments on this - but discuss them in another thread

impressive experience both of you !
mimihigurashi: I can imagine the kinesthesic sensation as it happened several times to me.

SearcherTMR : could you share the settings you use last night with the RD, and how it has been related to your success in this raduga's technique attempt?

^^Unfortunately, I used the settings I had already in the device, and don't remember them - had set them some time ago...
But using reverse engineering i found most of them:
Brightness:~3
Seconds: 2
Frequency: 2
Length: 2
Sensitivity: ? -- I can't figure this one out, but I have to reduce it next time or try TWC cause that was the main problem - the lights kept flashing too often...
And as I said, I used only lights - no beeps.

Now, how I think it was related to my success:
First, the mask was quite uncomfortable for me and it took me some time to fall asleep - this alone (long WBTB) is something that works for me most of the time. When I finally fell asleep, I drifted in and out of sleep, so, perfect conditions for success...
Second, it seems that using such subtle settings, i am not startled by the lights and I can perform the technique almost right away - although for the same reason I was tricked into 3 FA...
Anyway, I will be off trials and possibly off-grid for a few days, but I will resume my attempts after that!

thanks for these Datas.
Short flashing, not too much flash per second, and during only few seconds is a setting that sounds adapted to the Raduga DEILD style.
The TWC mode will allow you to shut it down from the LD itself without moving your real body, but you'll probably have to try it and maybe have several failed attempts before the device really goes off in standby mode.
You will probably also struggle to prevent you from doing it manually by pressing the RC/DELAY button, but the increasing intensity of clues that are close each other has got some advantages : it adapts itself to the deepness of your REM sleep.
But this tool maybe is more adapted to DILD purpose.

I had a thought this morning :
As you know, RD doesn't trigger flash/bip as soon as it detects REM but 2 or 3 minutes later.
Sometimes we are awake in the bed (at least we have this true or false belief) and we see the clues happening.
Generally when it happens, I say to myself "damned, the RD is flashing although I am not in REM at all, the REM detector is not functioning very well".
But I never go to the hypothesis that indeed it is possible that the RD has detected the REM when I was in REM but during 2 or 3 minutes it waits before sending clues, I can have had a Micro-Awakening and that could explain why I am seeing these clues whyle I am awake.

So, the RD probably is a good Micro-Awakenings detector, adapted to the Raduga's technique, because when we find ourselves awake AND seeing clues, it means that we probably just awoken from a REM and that the PHASE is likely to happen if we try it immediately.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Vince you really should stop trying to convince people, it's literally purposeless. You know what you know and you've experienced the things you have, which is great for you. If someone else is to find out, it'll happen to them sooner or later, we mustn't intervene.

It may be a mistake to assume to know my intentions. I am not trying to conform anyone to my system of beliefs, I am simply helping expand the perspectives of others by sharing my insight. Again, it's not about getting anyone to believe anything concrete more so as it is about helping people open their minds to new possibilities that can potentially enrich their experience and lead to new avenues of spiritual growth. I could be wrong about the details of the beliefs that I have shared regarding OBEs vs LDs, but what can be factually demonstrated is the results that these beliefs bring, and that is what is important here.

Now, to get back on topic as Kaan rightfully suggested..

I actually believe this conversation is very much on topic. The OP even mentions a distinction between OBEs vs LDs. We are essentially discussing "The Phase." What is the phase? What is the difference between the various types of phase experiences? Is it accurate to lump all of these modes of conscious projection into the same category, or are there significant differences which deserve their own categories? The conversation strayed away from speaking about technique and phase attempts, but we are still very much speaking of The Phase, both in theory and in experience.

I had another succes this night : 2 WILD, using my Rem-Dreamer with a little bit similar settings as SearcherTMR, + the help of Galantamine + A-GPC. (it seams that A-GPC gives me chances to be successful about 2 to 3 hours after I take it with Galantamine, because of his slow Peak Plasma).

Like the day before yesterday I accessed the WILD after a Non Lucid Dream followed by a micro awakening, and then a visual on which I focused and some touching things stabilization technique and here we go.

the first WILD was interrupted by the RD flashing and beeping and woke me up, but I managed to wait for an image, and re-entered to the landscape where I was just before the RD got me out of the dream.

the RD has woke me up several times, making me have several FA where I was looking for places to practice WILD, surrounded by some DC, so I finally lost my lucidity but stayed trying to have LD on each non LD.

RD is definitly a tool that can be exploited to help with some Raduga's based DEILD technique.
It can also interrupt your LD, so you have to keep quiet and try a basic DEILD.

Congrats for the LDs, Kaan.
I just slept like a rock for some reason, even though the alarm went off after like 7 hours of sleep -__-

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

I just slept like a rock for some reason, even though the alarm went off after like 7 hours of sleep -__-

huh! me too! sometimes i sleep through the alarm. then my mother tell me" hey, what is the role of alarm? you wake up every one and then you sleep again?. the only hope for my WILD or DEILD practices is the ability to do micro-awakening. so the alarm itself is a sadistic tool to f... the other's mind.

Originally Posted by yaya

huh! me too! sometimes i sleep through the alarm. then my mother tell me" hey, what is the role of alarm? you wake up every one and then you sleep again?. the only hope for my WILD or DEILD practices is the ability to do micro-awakening. so the alarm itself is a sadistic tool to f... the other's mind.

Actually I think I know the reason. We likely woke up from deep sleep. From now on I'm gonna use my Sleep as Android app to detect my REM sleep and wake me up during REM, so that I won't feel like I came back from the dead after a thousand years of slumber, lol.



Forgot to mention.

Originally Posted by VinceField

Again, it's not about getting anyone to believe anything concrete more so as it is about helping people open their minds to new possibilities that can potentially enrich their experience and lead to new avenues of spiritual growth.

Ha, enrich their experience and lead to new avenues of spiritual growth he says. That's nice dear, but it doesn't seem to be working, to say the least.

As for the topic, welp, at least ever since I got on this thread, we were discussing our successes, failures, and what to do to increase the chances of making this technique work. Then you and Kaan started going back and forth over what "the phase" really is and how LDs and APs are different and how astral projection is lucid dreaming and vice versa and.. yeah.. just sayin'.. I think there should be a separate thread for discussing the nature of lucid dreaming vs astral projection, since it's a whole 'nother story in it of itself.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Ha, enrich their experience and lead to new avenues of spiritual growth he says. That's nice dear, but it doesn't seem to be working, to say the least.

That's a bold statement, to say the least. Can you honestly speak for everyone who has read this, or who will read this in the future? It's funny how these things work. Many times I've read perspectives that seemed to contradict my own at the time, and it wasn't until some time later that the potential truth of what the others had shared really hit me, either because I eventually gained the experience to realize that they were right, or I eventually became honest enough with myself to let my guard down and sincerely entertain other possibilities without being blinded by my own preconceived beliefs. The point is, it's not usually a matter of instant acceptance and utilization of ideas and advice. It usually take some time to seep in.

I'm not sure I deserve the attitude, as I've been nothing but polite to you and everyone else here, but it is your right to be condescending, so please feel free to express yourself in whatever way you see fit. It's always enlightening to see someone's true colors.

Take care

Originally Posted by VinceField

That's a bold statement, to say the least. Can you honestly speak for everyone who has read this, or who will read this in the future? It's funny how these things work. Many times I've read perspectives that seemed to contradict my own at the time, and it wasn't until some time later that the potential truth of what the others had shared really hit me, either because I eventually gained the experience to realize that they were right, or I eventually became honest enough with myself to let my guard down and sincerely entertain other possibilities without being blinded by my own preconceived beliefs. The point is, it's not usually a matter of instant acceptance and utilization of ideas and advice. It usually take some time to seep in.

I'm not sure I deserve the attitude, as I've been nothing but polite to you and everyone else here, but it is your right to be condescending, so please feel free to express yourself in whatever way you see fit. It's always enlightening to see someone's true colors.

Take care

-_- Wtf, attitude? Condescending? I was just making a lighthearted comment.
And I was obviously talking about the person you were trying to "open their mind", Kaan, not other people. He did not seem to become more "open minded" at the end of your discussion.
Jeez, some people need to chill out..

And now..Ladies and gentlemen, what if we return to serenity and go back to the main subject?
Technique, fails, succes.

Originally Posted by Kaan

And now..Ladies and gentlemen, what if we return to serenity and go back to the main subject?
Technique, fails, succes.

That was brilliant, why didn't I see this before, thanks for sharing, t'was really funny XD