Thread: Can someone clear up information about shared dreaming?

I love multiplayer dreams. I love your avatar by the way. It's ridiculously cute. Check out the tutorial.

If you want clearing up, just go to the DDT.

BD is one big jumble of contradicting theories and misunderstood terms...

Just being honest.

That's why I prefer the holy sanctity of the DDT

BD will just confuse you more.

Beyond Dreaming will give you a balance of opinions, which is a healthy way to approach a subject.
The DDT, is more like going to "church" where everyone believes and noone is allowed to be critical or skeptical. Bit like a cult in that respect.

So I suppose it depends how sensible you are really, do you want a balanced opinion or just the one sided view of the believers?


Is shared dreaming possible?

Unfortunatly, as much as i would LOVE for it to be possible, I think it's a bit of wishful thinking and trying to make coincidental events fit around beliefs.

It's been of huge interest to a great deal of researchers, and so a great deal of study has been put into it. No one has been able to establish any kind of connection during a dream

Although, there are stories that a certain sect of Sufis used to be able to share dreams, HOWEVER these guys all used to sleep in the same cave together, and pretty much did everything together during the day.
So I wouldn't be suprised if they managed to somehow develop some kind of verbal communication whilst dreaming...
OR basically sleep talking to each other whilst dreaming.

So, it could well be possible to develop a skill, where you can sleep talk to someone sharing your bed who is also dreaming. That seems like the most plausable way to have a shared dream.

But, I think you're pretty safe in your dream privacy.

For shared dreaming to be real, you have to make a LOT of big assumptions about physics, the human mind, the universe etc. which don't actually have any standing in observable reality.


If you do manage to have a shared dream, I would however love to hear about it. Despite being skeptical, that dosn't mean i don't want it to be true, because it woud be a fantastic thing if it were!
Just, I'd rather not play make believe, like they seem to do in the DDT.

*sigh*

I direct you to Nomad's DJ

Originally Posted by Supernova

*sigh*

I direct you to Nomad's DJ

Yes because obviously, one person out of over 6 billion currently allive (and the billions who have died before us), who happens to post a dream journal on one forum, which could very easily be either falsified, self deluded, or just simply mistaken... is all the evidence you need to prove dream sharing.

That is exactly the same as replying to the question... "is elvis dead?"
With: "sigh... go read the diary of that homeless guy who claims to be Elvis"

Anyone can write ANYTHING they want on a forum, for ANY reason they want. With virtually no comeback in their own personal lives. But also, lets not ignore that someone making impressive claims, also has a lot to gain... they gain respect, friends, authority on the subject etc.

So for very little personal risk, someone, who we know nothing about, who may for example, have a rather unfulfilling and unsocial real life, could come into this forum, and make whatever claims they want.

You know, I could get a friend to set up an account, write a detailed dream journal about how they can dreamshare... all completely fictional... and noone would be any the wiser. Who knows, maybe Nomad IS that friend?
Maybe we met at university, are sociology students studying the nature of human belief, gullability and skepticism.

This is not a personal attack on Nomad, i'm sure he is a lovelly guy.
BUT, it is an attack on not thinking things through, accepting things on face value without even the slightest bit of critical thinking or skepticism.

So sigh as much as you like, but one persons claims are not proof.
If Nomad really can have shared dreams, and it is as easy as he claims...
Then i'm sure he would be happy to demonstrate this claim in a way which consitiutes as proof.

I'd be more than happy to attempt to dream share with him, and in that dream tell him a piece of information only i am aware of.
If he can then during waking life demonstrate that he knows that information, that would be a big step towards demonstrating his credibility.

Writing a dreamjournal, unfortunatly offers nothing.
I myself could start a dream journal and make whatever claims i wish.
That wouldn't make those claims true either.

Sure, it's good to trust our fellow human beings, and I'd hope that Nomad isn't out to fool people.
I'll offer him the benifit of the doubt, that he genuinely believes what he shares.
However, that still dosn't mean his claims are genuine.
There could be all number of reasons that he may have misinterpreted his experiences.

And before you say i'm not open minded, educate yourself on what open minded is:

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

And before you say i'm not open minded, educate yourself on what open minded is:

Being open minded and showing someone why he isn't debating well isn't compatible.

That's not at all what I'm saying. Sure he could be lying. The main reason I'm trying to have a shared dream is still to prove to myself that it is possible.

But the fact that it could be false it in no way any reason to write it off as one big lie.

He's not the only one here that does shared dreaming either. Isn't MoSh into it too? Would he lie about it?

Since Nomad's shared dreaming tutorial, a number of us, myself included have become interested in shared dreaming.. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Originally Posted by mowglycdb

Being open minded and showing someone why he isn't debating well isn't compatible.

I'd like to see your explanation for that, rather than just a one liner.

In my opinon it's absolutely compatible.
The only way to have an even debate is for both people to be speaking the same language.

Originally Posted by Supernova

That's not at all what I'm saying. Sure he could be lying. The main reason I'm trying to have a shared dream is still to prove to myself that it is possible.

But the fact that it could be false it in no way any reason to write it off as one big lie.

He's not the only one here that does shared dreaming either. Isn't MoSh into it too? Would he lie about it?

Since Nomad's shared dreaming tutorial, a number of us, myself included have become interested in shared dreaming.. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I'm not writing it off as one big lie, and perhaps I misunderstood your intentions with that post, but to be fair, it came across as dismissive and laced with apathy. If that wasn't your intention, I apoligise for misunderstanding you, but would suggest you may be a bit more specific next time around.

I've always been into the idea of shared dreaming, i've had a couple of unusual seemingly shared dreams in the past, so I'm aware that the experience of a shared dream can certainly feel convincing, what the explanation for the experience is, remains a mystery. The only way to demystify it is to have solid examples of the genuine sharing of information that couldn't be known by the other party.
A shared dream scene, theme, or script, whilst a convincing experience to those involved, could easily be the result of something other than a genuine meeting of minds in the dreamstate.

If for example, Nomad or another self proclaimed shared dreamer, could share a dream with say, myself, and in that dream I were to give Nomad my bank PIN number, and then the next day on the forum, he were able to provide that number... that would be a compelling bit of data in favour of a genuine shared experience. If that could then be repeated successfully under conditions which rule out foul play, then the evidence would start to become pretty solid indeed. At which point, you'd be able to revolutionise modern science and theories of the consciousness, probably making a great career for yourself, whilst at the same time educating and improving the world we live in. Not something to be sniffed at!

What many people seem to totally misjudge about me, is that I do not play devils advocate with the intention of being a spoil sport. I do it, because like many of you, i would love to believe, I would love such things to be true. By asking hard questions, and requesting verifiable proofs of claims, i'm not looking to be a pain in the arse, I'm looking for someone to offer something compelling in FAVOUR of shared dreaming. If someone can offer evidence, I would be the very first person, to jump in at the deep end of the subject, and dedicate my life to learning more about it. It wouldn't be just some curiosity for me on a forum, it would be something that would be revolutionary in the world, and utterly worth exploring in total depth and dedication.

BUT in the same way that I don't vote for a political party, without finding out as much about them and their competition... i see no reason why asking hard questions, getting as much information as possible, is a bad thing.

If this is REAL it is utterly utterly AMAZING and needs to be explored fully.

If it is not, then it is a huge waste of time and energy, both of which us mortal humans don't have much of, so it is a precious commodity, not to be wasted.

So with such high stakes, I really wish people would consider more often being the devils advocate, to keep pushing for more and more solid evidence. If the phenomena is real, then it shouldn't be a problem, the truth should not be effected one bit by difficult questions, in fact the truth should embrace them, because it reveals itself more fully when pushed hard.

Difficult questions are the friend of truth and the enemy of lies.
So when people get defensive, when you start asking difficult questions, that is a worrying signal, it makes you wonder if they genuinely believe the claims they are making.

ramble over

Rofl @ 4 full pages of rambling, I think spaceexplorer feels lonely.. if you want you can have my number so you can talk to someone once in a while ^_^

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Rofl @ 4 full pages of rambling, I think spaceexplorer feels lonely.. if you want you can have my number so you can talk to someone once in a while ^_^

Don't do it, space explorer! Last time I did, I was slapped with a $200 bill from Barbados! It was hawt tho...

No, actually, I'm just too lazy to write good posts from my phone.

Posting from that phone is a pain in the ass...

But yea, I've always wondered why no one ever bothered to do something like that. Perhaps I'd better suggest it to Nomad. He could pick something, a number let's say, PM it to someone, and tell it to Raven in a shared dream.

I guess I remain to be skeptical as well. I find it hard to believe its possible, but then again I laughed at my friend when he told me I could be conscious in a dream and control it (although it sounded a lot more plausible). Time will tell I guess.

I really like your healthy criticism and open-mindedness at the same time spaceexplorer !

I have gotten away with total peace of mind from a lot of disputes after I realized that there's nothing to be scared about the truth - If the other person can prove his statements I gladly accept them. If I know something by experience and I can't prove my statement I still feel peace inside me because I know that If that is really the truth that I consider being truth, then life will teach him/her the same. Sooner or later truth comes out anyway...

I felt reluctant (sometimes even now) to the word energy as in the energy healing and raise your vibration etc. But then when I read Abraham (by Hicks) - there was written that there are actually feeling names to describe energy. Gratitude, joy, love being high (because you actually feel great, happy, light etc) and depression, grief, fear being in the bottom (because you actually feel that heaviness and weight on yourself, you have greater inertia and other characteristical patterns). That doesn't actually prove that energy healing without any words and bodily contact exists.

I really like the eastern philosophy. But like everything in this world can be misinterpreted, so is eastern philosophy. And I don't consider mine the right one. In the western world there is too much accent on the physical - word energy for me is a great word to describe all the influences to an individual - physical, emotional, mental. If you watch comedy movies 30 days in a row - You definitely influence your physical health in the process - there are even clown doctors. Anyone seen the movie Patch Adams.

I know about the power of touch and the power of words spoken from deep understanding. I work with them every day. And I feel really in content with the flow in life - there are things I know and things I don't know - and whatever is worth knowing (truths) will prove itself to me (because I know I'm open to check new ideas)

Although I believe that there are past lives and we are capable of much more than we are letting us believe at the time.

On the other hand I've found that sometimes inner feelings (not necessarily emotions) are much more profound in their holistic view on the situations than pure reasoning. I've also experienced that if I keep on focusing on that feeling I will get memories and thoughts that build up that feeling, but never all of them. That's starting to get strange I'll stop now.

(: I like the fact that I'm adopted by WakingNomad

Originally Posted by Loaf

I guess I remain to be skeptical as well. I find it hard to believe its possible, but then again I laughed at my friend when he told me I could be conscious in a dream and control it (although it sounded a lot more plausible). Time will tell I guess.

I remember when one of my friends (good one) told me that he realized in a dream that he was dreaming and started to fly - I believed that it was possible - But the feeling I had was - WHAT A HACK? YOU, ORDINARY GUY COULD DO THAT? LAST NIGHT? It was just out of my under-standing.

Great word in english huh? Under-Standing. Can you feel confident and peaceful if you have no good under-standing about the world ? If your under-standing is not too good in a subject - it's obvious you can't create a stable image of that idea.

Actually a multiplayer dream is a good analogy.

But imagine a multiplayer game where each player has individual customized graphics so that each player sees a completely different game even though they are interacting in the same game with the same rules. (actually the rules are customized to the individual, but ignore that for the moment).

Instead of graphic files, it's archetypes we interact with. Everyone has slightly different conceptualizations of everything which results in slight differences in each dreamer's perspective.

But the overall layout of the game level will create commonalities in the experience, especially since many people will have somewhat similar graphic files to work with. A zombie is a zombie no matter who you ask. But other concepts aren't as clear cut.

Very nice description.

But seriously... You should check into the DDT

Cusp - really nicely put !

...Could anyone please tell me what does DDT and BD stand for?

Thank you.

Originally Posted by insight

Cusp - really nicely put !

...Could anyone please tell me what does DDT and BD stand for?

Thank you.

Beyond dreaming, the sub-forum you are posting in right now
And DDT stands for Deep Dreaming Team, a private sub-forum closed to the majority of members. Read here for more information about it.

Originally Posted by no-Name

Beyond dreaming, the sub-forum you are posting in right now
And DDT stands for Deep Dreaming Team, a private sub-forum closed to the majority of members. Read here for more information about it.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Supernova

No, actually, I'm just too lazy to write good posts from my phone.

Posting from that phone is a pain in the ass...

But yea, I've always wondered why no one ever bothered to do something like that. Perhaps I'd better suggest it to Nomad. He could pick something, a number let's say, PM it to someone, and tell it to Raven in a shared dream.

There are a few problems with this:

1) We could be colluding.

2) We could be the same person with two accounts.

3) There is no way for us to prove that the above statements are untrue.

4) I am not out to prove that shared dreaming exists.

If you (the royal you, the anyone-out-there you) wants to believe in shared dreaming, wants to believe it's true, then you should just try it, making a sincere dedicated effort over time.

If some scientists wanted to study us and put us in a sleep lab under isolated conditions, I'd be for it. I don't know if Raven Knight would, but I am not opposed to something like that, because that would provide irrefutable evidence. Anything online is not irrefutable, and that is why I am not going to waste time with such experiments. I'd much rather have fun being Jedi Knights, or dark elves, or assassins, or dream warriors together than to do experiments to prove shared dreaming is real when I know that the people that don't believe in it are not going to change their minds and the people that do will share dreams with us.

Already more and more people are dreaming of each other. Raven Knight and Warrior Tiger have just shared a dream. Robo entered the Tower on the Moon, and so did Man of Shred. Beachgirl had a dream of me and Kanaloa. Synchronicites are increasing. The ranks of shared dreamers are just beginning to bud, and will swell in time. Then, Raven Knight and I will just be a tiny part of the masses of shared lucid dreamers. That is my goal.

Originally Posted by no-Name

And DDT stands for Deep Dreaming Team, a private sub-forum closed to the majority of members. Read here for more information about it.

Actually, I understand that deep dreaming is open to any member who cares to ask.


The I do love the way it says "members unwilling to participate in the open spirit will be shown the door".
Doesn't sound very open spirited to me.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

There are a few problems with this:

1) We could be colluding.

2) We could be the same person with two accounts.

3) There is no way for us to prove that the above statements are untrue.

4) I am not out to prove that shared dreaming exists.

You could also be kidding yourselves and making far to much of minor coincidences.

Sounds like you're actively communicating with your multiple dream playpals in the "real world". No chance this is influencing what you all dream about?

If you really can dream share you should get in touch with scientists instantly.
They will come up with simple and effective methods of proving your case.
Good luck with that

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

There are a few problems with this:

1) We could be colluding.

2) We could be the same person with two accounts.

3) There is no way for us to prove that the above statements are untrue.

4) I am not out to prove that shared dreaming exists.

If you (the royal you, the anyone-out-there you) wants to believe in shared dreaming, wants to believe it's true, then you should just try it, making a sincere dedicated effort over time.

If some scientists wanted to study us and put us in a sleep lab under isolated conditions, I'd be for it. I don't know if Raven Knight would, but I am not opposed to something like that, because that would provide irrefutable evidence. Anything online is not irrefutable, and that is why I am not going to waste time with such experiments. I'd much rather have fun being Jedi Knights, or dark elves, or assassins, or dream warriors together than to do experiments to prove shared dreaming is real when I know that the people that don't believe in it are not going to change their minds and the people that do will share dreams with us.

Already more and more people are dreaming of each other. Raven Knight and Warrior Tiger have just shared a dream. Robo entered the Tower on the Moon, and so did Man of Shred. Beachgirl had a dream of me and Kanaloa. Synchronicites are increasing. The ranks of shared dreamers are just beginning to bud, and will swell in time. Then, Raven Knight and I will just be a tiny part of the masses of shared lucid dreamers. That is my goal.

Seriously,
If you genuinely believe in this...
Why on earth would you not be desperate to get this proven, and improve the world we live in?
It would change lives, change science, change the way people view each other and the planet we live on.

Shouldn't you be chasing down scientists yourself?
Rather than squandering this world-changing, science-reinventing discovery on playing dream games with friends?

Seems very irresponsible to me, sorry but it really does.

It's the equivilant to discovering the cure for cancer, and also discovering the cure has some fun side effect... then just messing around with the side effect with your mates and not doing something good for the world with it.

If it's real, it is a revolution to the entire world, and you have a responsibility to share that with humanity.

If it's not, then you are just deluding yourself and others.

But if it is real, and you choose to use it simply for your own entertainment, that is incredibly selfish of you.

I'm sure there is a university near you, would it really be that hard to visit it, and share your knowledge with the world?