Psionik

Maybe the village was devastated because of your super strong call. You did say that it messed up the houses. Nice lucid dream though. Hopefully you'll succeed in sharing a dream with your friend next time^.^

The village was in that state of disrepair even before.
With her, or with my brother. My wife is very materialistic... and I think that it presents problem which is projected into lucid dreams... And she is more often a dream zombie in my dreams than not. But then, the possibility that sharing dream is impossible is much stronger.

The village was in that state of disrepair even before.
With her, or with my brother. My wife is very materialistic... and I think that it presents problem which is projected into lucid dreams... And she is more often a dream zombie in my dreams than not. But then, the possibility that sharing dream is impossible is much stronger.

Oh yeah...Sorry I read this late at night so I guess I didn't take in that part as I read it. ^.^ Its interesting that shes more often like a zombie in your dreams but it looks like you have a good idea of why things appeared that way in your dream. Hmm...I guess it is more impossible but still, there's room for possibility. ^^ Great, now I have the urge to try shared dreaming again. XD Except I don't like to do it because I don't want to open my mind to intruders like demonic presence.

And I find it strange that someone could think or feel that the possession by other being is possible. I'm opening myself because I don't like to be closed- it feels limiting. I guess if I have negative experience... but my experience tells me that there is no limit other than that we take to ourselves. The few demon like beings didn't like my vicinity much.

And I find it strange that someone could think or feel that the possession by other being is possible. I'm opening myself because I don't like to be closed- it feels limiting. I guess if I have negative experience... but my experience tells me that there is no limit other than that we take to ourselves. The few demon like beings didn't like my vicinity much.

If you believe in demons its not really strange I think. Well for it to happen in a dream probably but if there is a way to be connected wouldn't there be a possibility for others to be connected as well? In the end though everyone has their opinion and views so its okay if you still think its strange. ^.^ I see why you would put no limit on yourself though.

Ah, possession, my kind of topic. Psionik, if you're open to the concept of shared dreaming, I'd think you'd understand a bit regarding possession. Shared dreaming is telepathy--and if you tweak that experience, just so, you can wind up with a very new experience (such as possession, among others). Soooooo--have fun?

DreamCafe11: I'm not sure if they exist... but I met some in lower astral. I was twice in something like hell. Not bad experience. One can feel OK even there. But for that it is important to be concentrated on existence, be observer and not to be attached to the experience. Be a light of peace and demons are powerless scarred even. In a dream... well... It is much less certain whether something is real being or my subconscious imagination.
RedKali: Telepathy- yes. Possession??? I'm not so sure. I have a fun. Even when I did astral travel to hell Tell me, how would one be able to travel out of body if he is closed? How could he be open to the higher spiritual dimensions if he is closed? I do this OBE for more than 30 years. Why am I not possessed? Or am I?

Everyone has beliefs which close them off in some regard. Even I'm closed off in ways that I think matter, a lot. Yet I get around in astral form a fair bit. I dream share--and I'm an ass there, often enough. Just because we're closed off doesn't mean we're unable to experience the abstract. That aside, the possession feature is something I only ran into because of others I was dreamsharing with who happened to give me feedback on dreams where I was possessing someone. I figure events where I'm not the only observer are more valid than events that I, alone, dream of. A lot of what I recognize as 'real' has been validated by others--and I think I'm lucky I've had that feedback. If not for those who take an interest in my dreaming, I'd be chalking all of my dreaming up to just random fits of fun. I like it both ways, but I like knowing that my actions impact others and I'm not just ... playing with myself.

Anyway. I don't know why you're not possessed. Maybe you have a high enough awareness. Maybe you have but haven't noticed. It's a very subtle slip-in feature. I barely noticed I was doing it to others. Maybe intend to dream about it and see how your experiences manifest. It certainly sounds like something I'd be interested in reading.

I'll do you one better. I give you permission to practice possessing me. Someone who can give consent

Hmm...I don't believe in Hell as a literal place and I'm not sure I believe in astral traveling like you and Redkali do. I view it more as telepathy through dreams. Although the type of possession RedKali mentioned was interesting because if you could do that than you'd be able to manipulate the person's emotions or actions in a way.^^" But It seems like you didn't come across something like that. Or it could be you didn't have any bad experiences because of the reasons RedKali gave or you just do things in a safe manner I suppose. I think those who open themselves to anyone are more likely to have those uncomfortable experiences or those that deal with spirit type of things. But I know nothing about you so...that is all I have to say about the matter. :3 Although thinking about our conversation now maybe shared dreaming isn't so bad to try but I guess I'm just cautious about it. Having the right person to try it with can make a person more open to try it though so I guess it depends.^^

. . .because if you could do that (possession) then you'd be able to manipulate the person's emotions or actions in a way

Yes and no. Personally, I like the idea of free will, so when I engage others I try to grant them the space to make their own decisions unless their safety is at risk, then I attempt to take full control (to remove them from danger). Ethically, I may be wrong even for doing that. Judgement and morality are engaged when dreaming of possessions (I'm not going to argue whether or not my experiences are real because I can't prove they were besides having people witness the event. However, as a dreaming experience in itself I find it fascinating areas to ponder).

I've never been able to change others emotions--I may suggest certain emotions and imbue the feeling in them for them to latch onto, but that's about as far as I've personally got (and I stumble through much of this). Manipulating action is much easier, though even with that sometimes I really struggle with forcing someone to behave a specific way. Some people are simply stronger than others.

Shared dreaming is sharing the same space with another. Possession is sharing the same body. Not that much of a difference, I think xP

Yes and no. Personally, I like the idea of free will, so when I engage others I try to grant them the space to make their own decisions unless their safety is at risk, then I attempt to take full control (to remove them from danger). Ethically, I may be wrong even for doing that. Judgement and morality are engaged when dreaming of possessions (I'm not going to argue whether or not my experiences are real because I can't prove they were besides having people witness the event. However, as a dreaming experience in itself I find it fascinating areas to ponder).

I've never been able to change others emotions--I may suggest certain emotions and imbue the feeling in them for them to latch onto, but that's about as far as I've personally got (and I stumble through much of this). Manipulating action is much easier, though even with that sometimes I really struggle with forcing someone to behave a specific way. Some people are simply stronger than others.

Shared dreaming is sharing the same space with another. Possession is sharing the same body. Not that much of a difference, I think xP

Okay.Thanks for explaining. I didn't really see you as the type to take advantage of others freewill in a reckless way though. Hmm...shared dreaming and possession are similar in a way but the method is what can make it different I think.

RedKali: I remember distinctly of a few times where I found myself in different body during my OBEs... How to say it... while I was in it, I wasn't compatible to control it. I was only something like hitchhiker I could feel emotions but not thoughts of host.
When Host was sleeping and I found myself in his body, I was unable to move it. I tried Sleeping body was like automaton. It was breathing, working... but nobody was at "home". It was easy to exteriorize from it however. I wasn't held by it that way like my body holds me... I theorize that it is like very tight fitting glove... or bodysuit. Nobody else fit in body he is not born with.
When host was awake I was able to observe him/her emotions and doings... Communication was difficult... it was like suggesting something through emotions and then reading echo of host emotions. Host wasn't aware of my existence. I was powerless to change what host wanted to do. Nor did I really want to change it. When I'm out of body, the type of consciousness, mind state doesn't allow anything less than peace... balance. Even grief (because of sharing the pain of Host) is balanced and peaceful... I suggested through emotions what may help and Host choose differently even if he/her pondered of possibility to do what I suggested through emotions... I registered more than once something like surprise emotion when I tried to make suggestive emotion to do something else than Host planed.
Do you think that sharing a dream is like possession? Sharing imaginary place (either you take other into your dream or you enter his) doesn't look like that for me.
I see some similarities in your experiences to some of mine.

DreamCafe11: OBE (to astral and other dimensions) feels distinctively different than lucid dream. But I think, to make connection through OBE, second party must be able to travel out of body... And when I couple this with my low ability to choose where I'm emerging out of body, and that different mind state means different interests... Meetings where I would be able to try to communicate with others are rare. Also my OBEs are quite solitary. Beings are sparsely populating astral... in my view.
OK, I wasn't able to make different body to comply to my wishes, nor was I able to think of such possibility while out of body. I don't like to be enclosed inside matter... OBE means freedom I think it is even less possible through dreams. It is more likely that you will posses the thought of being someone else
Hell is a place and it is not a place at the same time. It is state of mind. And it is imagination created by many beings who share that state. It was most populated area/place/state I found while exploring astral. There is no such thing in mental dimension. But... I was travelling through heaven like place to mental dimension a few times where I was able to change mind state while out of body. Heaven like place was higher astral. And sometimes I observed something between levels of dimension- there was something what I interpret as wall of light. But other beings experienced it differently. I met a man once, standing before heaven (higher astral level) and he couldn't go any further... and when I asked him why he is not going there, but standing on place, he told me, that there is a fire wall, too hot. I saw it then, but I didn't felt it. It repeated in heaven- I was walking with one of people I found there and he couldn't come close to barrier between higher astral and mental dimensions. Barrier was certainly only my interpretation... the same was walking interpretation. I was walking to lighter and more peaceful places and my mind state was constantly changing, refining, adjusting.
Walk through barrier between astral and mental dimension is much more difficult. It is more like big jump in mental state... where walking through sub levels of one dimension is only slope. For me it is difficult to make that jump. Not impossible. Very difficult. It is discontinuity. Fundamental change in mind state.

DreamCafe11: OBE (to astral and other dimensions) feels distinctively different than lucid dream. But I think, to make connection through OBE, second party must be able to travel out of body... And when I couple this with my low ability to choose where I'm emerging out of body, and that different mind state means different interests... Meetings where I would be able to try to communicate with others are rare. Also my OBEs are quite solitary. Beings are sparsely populating astral... in my view.
OK, I wasn't able to make different body to comply to my wishes, nor was I able to think of such possibility while out of body. I don't like to be enclosed inside matter... OBE means freedom I think it is even less possible through dreams. It is more likely that you will posses the thought of being someone else
Hell is a place and it is not a place at the same time. It is state of mind. And it is imagination created by many beings who share that state. It was most populated area/place/state I found while exploring astral. There is no such thing in mental dimension. But... I was travelling through heaven like place to mental dimension a few times where I was able to change mind state while out of body. Heaven like place was higher astral. And sometimes I observed something between levels of dimension- there was something what I interpret as wall of light. But other beings experienced it differently. I met a man once, standing before heaven (higher astral level) and he couldn't go any further... and when I asked him why he is not going there, but standing on place, he told me, that there is a fire wall, too hot. I saw it then, but I didn't felt it. It repeated in heaven- I was walking with one of people I found there and he couldn't come close to barrier between higher astral and mental dimensions. Barrier was certainly only my interpretation... the same was walking interpretation. I was walking to lighter and more peaceful places and my mind state was constantly changing, refining, adjusting.
Walk through barrier between astral and mental dimension is much more difficult. It is more like big jump in mental state... where walking through sub levels of one dimension is only slope. For me it is difficult to make that jump. Not impossible. Very difficult. It is discontinuity. Fundamental change in mind state.

Oh, I understand what your saying for the most part, certain things still confuse me though. I don't really know what you mean by change in mind state. What changes in your mind? Also, what is less possible in dreams?^^

What changes is fundamental mode of existence(thought process is different than that applicable for existing in astral... which is again different than that I have in waking life). But while I can come close with thought process in waking state to that I use in astral, I can't do the same with mental dimension requirements, not yet anyway... Budhic dimension is even more difficult jump from mental dimension than from astral to mental... It is like barrier. You need to leave something behind... something what you can't take into higher dimension. That discontinuity leads often back to waking state.

Possesion is less possible through a dream, I think. I don't have consciousness strong enough in LD in comparison to astral projection... Did you manage to posses someone?

changes is fundamental mode of existence(thought process is different than that applicable for existing in astral... which is again different than that I have in waking life). But while I can come close with thought process in waking state to that I use in astral, I can't do the same with mental dimension requirements, not yet anyway... Budhic dimension is even more difficult jump from mental dimension than from astral to mental... It is like barrier. You need to leave something behind... something what you can't take into higher dimension. That discontinuity leads often back to waking state.

Possesion is less possible through a dream, I think. I don't have consciousness strong enough in LD in comparison to astral projection... Did you manage to ?

I appreciate the explanation. Thanks but I have another question...Is that like when you cant remember something in the dream that you normally would in waking life? Sorry, im slow when it comes to these things. Can you give me a specific example of what you leave behind when you do such a jump?

Eh. I dont think posession would be less possible in a dream because in dreams you can look at things from different perspective and can change your form as you want. If shared dreaming is possible I dont think its impossible for the two to see things in the same perspective. Possession would probably be like how it feels when you fuse with a dc but different if the person in real.

This is hard to explain... the thought process needs to change- it is necessary when you want to stay in certain dimension. How to explain it? Moving through sublevels is like continuous refining your state of consciousness. But the change from plane(dimension) to plane is not continuous and that discontinuity leaves gap in perception... Leading back into waking state.
- to go into astral dimension I need to stop thinking in normal sense. I feel my existence but mind is much more clearer, concentrated. The thought process is based on emotions... shallow and quiet emotions. Strong emotions may tip the balance and force return back to body. It is going best with singular concentration on what I want/need to do but that want and need must be gentle. What I heard from other people, they can be much rougher in astral... For some reason I'm unable to be so.
- to go into mental dimension I need to change the way of thinking from emotional into intellectual, but it is different from everything normally felt. I feel it like mild emotional-logical stream... or something. It is very different from astral.
- to go to buddhic dimension you need left behind the joy, rapture... it is too low for it. Happiness and bliss is felt- very balanced, and very mild... Body is not present, I was presented by something like ball of fire(soul) It is endless space filled of love, unconditional, gentle, balanced love. You are unable to feel other emotion. I was able to see other stars/souls. To do something there is hard. Conditions of consciousness are strict. You can move in that vastness of space by non willing it. I can't describe that, sorry. It is like very gentle nudge. It is timeless plane but there is something like time... moving forward, backward(my feeling of it)... so everything is strange... to do something, to move, needs time and will which is nearly impossible to feel/express. I was able to visit this plane only on accident- I was in right state of mind during separation from physical body.
-in meditation I maybe visited in atmic and anupadaka planes... In atmic plane I was... mildly identified myself with point of light... all alone in vast space, in anupadaka there was no presentation of myself. I only was. I heard that in highest plane-Adi there is only pure undivided existence, losing of myself in everything. I'm not sure how that can be possible, yet . I'm also not sure about losing existence, but maybe that is only failed concept, badly understood experience. You know, I don't feel the need of isolated individual being, I'm perfectly OK with merging into something larger, but I don't feel it right to dissolve totally in something larger. To become nonexistent.

Possession of dream character, even if it has real counterpart is for me hardly possession. If that dream character is bonded with real being... I don't think I would be able to possess it. Nevertheless, I didn't try to possess someone intentionally. So I can=t be sure. Dream has much higher margin for doing things than astral projection allows.

This is hard to explain... the thought process needs to change- it is necessary when you want to stay in certain dimension. How to explain it? Moving through sublevels is like continuous refining your state of consciousness. But the change from plane(dimension) to plane is not continuous and that discontinuity leaves gap in perception... Leading back into waking state.
- to go into astral dimension I need to stop thinking in normal sense. I feel my existence but mind is much more clearer, concentrated. The thought process is based on emotions... shallow and quiet emotions. Strong emotions may tip the balance and force return back to body. It is going best with singular concentration on what I want/need to do but that want and need must be gentle. What I heard from other people, they can be much rougher in astral... For some reason I'm unable to be so.
- to go into mental dimension I need to change the way of thinking from emotional into intellectual, but it is different from everything normally felt. I feel it like mild emotional-logical stream... or something. It is very different from astral.
- to go to buddhic dimension you need left behind the joy, rapture... it is too low for it. Happiness and bliss is felt- very balanced, and very mild... Body is not present, I was presented by something like ball of fire(soul) It is endless space filled of love, unconditional, gentle, balanced love. You are unable to feel other emotion. I was able to see other stars/souls. To do something there is hard. Conditions of consciousness are strict. You can move in that vastness of space by non willing it. I can't describe that, sorry. It is like very gentle nudge. It is timeless plane but there is something like time... moving forward, backward(my feeling of it)... so everything is strange... to do something, to move, needs time and will which is nearly impossible to feel/express. I was able to visit this plane only on accident- I was in right state of mind during separation from physical body.
-in meditation I maybe visited in atmic and anupadaka planes... In atmic plane I was... mildly identified myself with point of light... all alone in vast space, in anupadaka there was no presentation of myself. I only was. I heard that in highest plane-Adi there is only pure undivided existence, losing of myself in everything. I'm not sure how that can be possible, yet . I'm also not sure about losing existence, but maybe that is only failed concept, badly understood experience. You know, I don't feel the need of isolated individual being, I'm perfectly OK with merging into something larger, but I don't feel it right to dissolve totally in something larger. To become nonexistent.

Possession of dream character, even if it has real counterpart is for me hardly possession. If that dream character is bonded with real being... I don't think I would be able to possess it. Nevertheless, I didn't try to possess someone intentionally. So I can=t be sure. Dream has much higher margin for doing things than astral projection allows.

Wow, you sure do know a lot about it. I get what you meant now though so thanks for describing it to me. XD I'm sorry I asked lots of questions too. I just can't help it when I know so little about a topic. Hmm...But when you say dreams have a higher margin of doing things I wonder if they really are that different. For me it just feels like for a Obe or astral like dream I get a more concrete feeling with a more realistic environment. ^^" But that is just my experience with it. I'm not into that stuff though so that could be why we experience it somewhat differently.

Don't worry about questions.
I don't feel that my description of OBE to different dimensions is clear enough... But I can't do it better. Other people also described it, and often differently. But that is OK, I did my own research and experiences.
I concede the possibility that all that is only special kind of dream. Special because it is changed by different state of consciousness. Yet when I have the experience, I'm sure it is real. Dream is different, I know that I'm only dreaming in it. Even if it is lucid one.