Thread: How to Dilate Time

Originally Posted by moonshine

Probably not, no.

In my experience Lucids always last just as long as they take in real life.
I always check the clock before going under and after waking up.

I'm still hoping there is a possibility though. That would be awesome

Lets not forget that the longer a dream lasts the harder it is to remember anything. Anyone who says they can make a dream last hours is bullshitting.

But in a lucid dream you are fully concious, so shouldn't it be easier to remember than in an ordinary dream?

Originally Posted by AngelZlayer

But in a lucid dream you are fully concious, so shouldn't it be easier to remember than in an ordinary dream?

In my experience, it can be a wee bit easier, but its by no means a sure thing. For longer lucids I do find I have to think things through and work backwords from the end, much as I do when trying to recall normal dreams.

Thats why so many people advise that if you've had a very interesting lucid, you should wake yourself up to ensure you remember.

It think this is especially an issue when Chaining dreams.

Hmm... Speaking of chaining dreams, do you think it's possible that some people who have had dreams that last for hours had actually chained dreams together, but then forgot about actually waking up and chaining them?

Originally Posted by Mini Man56

Hmm... Speaking of chaining dreams, do you think it's possible that some people who have had dreams that last for hours had actually chained dreams together, but then forgot about actually waking up and chaining them?

Certainly. Sometimes people wake in the night, go to he bathroom, and go back to bed - and because they're mind is still in "sleep memory" (yes, your memory is recorded differently when dreaming), they lose recollection of it, and forget it even happened.

This is why remembering dreams is so hard, and why you should try to record them / move them to long term memory as quickly as possible.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Lets not forget that the longer a dream lasts the harder it is to remember anything. Anyone who says they can make a dream last hours is bullshitting.

So certain from inexperience?

Have you not dreamt for hours? You are asleep for about 8 hours, dreaming for a few hours shouldn't seem so impossible?

Just being a little more detached/aware (not so difficult if you make it habitual) gets you that much more conscious, not that you have to be so alert to remember *hours* of dreams.

You don't have to be lucid to remember dreams (as you know), and wouldn't level of recall be different with each person regardless?

Just really that calling 'bullshit' on something due to your lack of experiencing to that certain extent, is ignorant.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Probably not, no.

In my experience Lucids always last just as long as they take in real life.
I always check the clock before going under and after waking up.

Lets not forget that the longer a dream lasts the harder it is to remember anything. Anyone who says they can make a dream last hours is bullshitting.

I take it you don't believe time is subjective then? Hehe just realized my avatar's getting increasingly relevant to the topic.

Originally Posted by Speesh

I take it you don't believe time is subjective then? Hehe just realized my avatar's getting increasingly relevant to the topic.

Of course its subjective.
But imagining myself changing from a child to an old man in a dream that last 3 seconds is not the same as having a dream that lasts 60 years.

Originally Posted by ClouD

So certain from inexperience?

Have you not dreamt for hours? You are asleep for about 8 hours, dreaming for a few hours shouldn't seem so impossible?

Just being a little more detached/aware (not so difficult if you make it habitual) gets you that much more conscious, not that you have to be so alert to remember *hours* of dreams.

You don't have to be lucid to remember dreams (as you know), and wouldn't level of recall be different with each person regardless?

Just really that calling 'bullshit' on something due to your lack of experiencing to that certain extent, is ignorant.

Actually it is my experience which allows me to make this determination, as well as the experience of numerous others.

"Dreaming for a few hours". Funny you should mention that, as humans generally have about 90minutes to 2 hours of REM sleep in total in any one night. It is highly improbable that someone can remember the events of every single REM period without waking up after each period to memorise and record.

As most experiences lucid dreamers know, the longest REM periods are at the end of the night, where you might be lucky enough to have up to an hour. If you do have a dream, lucid or otherwise, which lasts an hour, it is going to be very difficult to recall everything from the start.

I myself have experienced Lucids 30 to 45 minutes, though this may just be a matter of perception.

None of this has anything to do with the concept of "Dream Time Dilation", which I rightly claim to be bullshit.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Actually it is my experience which allows me to make this determination, as well as the experience of numerous others.

"Dreaming for a few hours". Funny you should mention that, as humans generally have about 90minutes to 2 hours of REM sleep in total in any one night. It is highly improbable that someone can remember the events of every single REM period without waking up after each period to memorise and record.

As most experiences lucid dreamers know, the longest REM periods are at the end of the night, where you might be lucky enough to have up to an hour. If you do have a dream, lucid or otherwise, which lasts an hour, it is going to be very difficult to recall everything from the start.

I myself have experienced Lucids 30 to 45 minutes, though this may just be a matter of perception.

None of this has anything to do with the concept of "Dream Time Dilation", which I rightly claim to be bullshit.

Your lack of experience with dreaming for extended periods of time and consciously remembering, along with the 'numerous others', is not experience at all, it is inexperience.

I have heard you can dream, and lucid dream, outside of REM periods, not that I understand nor really care for technicalities.

Probability has only to do with statistics, some people train recall, some people already have good recall, some people have shit recall. 'Highly improbable' sounds like you're speaking for all lucid dreamers.

Recall is more difficult than just remembering. If you are conscious enough during the dreaming, then there's no need to strain to recall, I find it comes as easy as normal memories depending on the engaged senses.

I'm speaking of my own experience, I don't know the science behind it, but cynicism redundantly gives way to reality.

I don't know about REM periods, but I do know from experience that 'time' is relative, right now is all there is and that is the essence of lucidity, not whether I think that I've logically had dreams that last hours, or whether you outright call bullshit on everything outside of your box, without the consideration that it is relative to interpretation.

Time dilation, time being subjective and dilation being the expansion of that subjective interpretation. I don't see how you can call 'bullshit' on that, unless you believe that time is entirely objective, which you've expressed you don't -- it looks contradicting.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Time dilation, time being subjective and dilation being the expansion of that subjective interpretation. I don't see how you can call 'bullshit' on that, unless you believe that time is entirely objective, which you've expressed you don't -- it looks contradicting.

Gotta agree with this. I've once heard that time is an illusion created by memory, and recently I'm starting to believe this to be true. Objectively we as a species (or more precisely, culture) call something an hour or a minute. We assign very specific meanings to a very abstract, subjective concept. But each person experiences an hour differently from everyone else, based on differences in perception. Dilation is, as you realize, not something one can manipulate by sheer force of will. It is only a more elaborate illusion of the memory, formed from an altered perception.

Perception's a tricky thing to change, but it can be done. Those who detail experiences on psychedelic drugs often refer to time seeming longer. Same goes for those who have lots of meditation experience under their belts. Dreaming is a weird state of consciousness and perception not too dissimilar from either of those states.

Obviously there are limits, 60 years in 3 seconds is a very farfetched notion. I figure even if it was possible it would overload the human brain thousands of times over. But I have heard of single REM cycles feeling like they last for 8 hours. If you really believe time is subjective, its certainly possible to think that the illusion of 90 minutes can be interpreted by one's memory as a few hours, or even a few minutes. In my case it is usually the latter, I generally have a pretty weak mind in waking life and thusly dreams usually feel much shorter than they actually are.

It may be possible to experience an hour or something in a minute or whatever, supposing the experience of time is indeed subjective. However. There is a finite amount of processing the brain can do in any amount of time. So if one managed to make a dream last longer by time dilation, they would either have to take adrenelin or something to drastically increase their "brain power", or just pay the price of being a little "slow on the uptake" during the dream .

How long are you actually dreaming then?

Because I've had dreams that are easily one or two hours long in the dream, but I'm not sure if that was in real time or all in my head, because I'll sleep for about 6 hours.

Originally Posted by Speesh

Gotta agree with this. I've once heard that time is an illusion created by memory, and recently I'm starting to believe this to be true. Objectively we as a species (or more precisely, culture) call something an hour or a minute. We assign very specific meanings to a very abstract, subjective concept. But each person experiences an hour differently from everyone else, based on differences in perception. Dilation is, as you realize, not something one can manipulate by sheer force of will. It is only a more elaborate illusion of the memory, formed from an altered perception.

Perception's a tricky thing to change, but it can be done. Those who detail experiences on psychedelic drugs often refer to time seeming longer. Same goes for those who have lots of meditation experience under their belts. Dreaming is a weird state of consciousness and perception not too dissimilar from either of those states.

Obviously there are limits, 60 years in 3 seconds is a very farfetched notion. I figure even if it was possible it would overload the human brain thousands of times over. But I have heard of single REM cycles feeling like they last for 8 hours. If you really believe time is subjective, its certainly possible to think that the illusion of 90 minutes can be interpreted by one's memory as a few hours, or even a few minutes. In my case it is usually the latter, I generally have a pretty weak mind in waking life and thusly dreams usually feel much shorter than they actually are.

I think your missing the point.
I'm talking about the way dreams have a tendency to skip the boring bits.
My analogy, though extreme, served the purpose.
You may beleive you have lived 60 years in a very short time.
But you absolutely have not.

To dilate time, simply slow down your rythm. Slowing down your breath for example will make time go slower. Also works irl.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Your lack of experience with dreaming for extended periods of time and consciously remembering, along with the 'numerous others', is not experience at all, it is inexperience.

I have heard you can dream, and lucid dream, outside of REM periods, not that I understand nor really care for technicalities.

Probability has only to do with statistics, some people train recall, some people already have good recall, some people have shit recall. 'Highly improbable' sounds like you're speaking for all lucid dreamers.

Recall is more difficult than just remembering. If you are conscious enough during the dreaming, then there's no need to strain to recall, I find it comes as easy as normal memories depending on the engaged senses.

I'm speaking of my own experience, I don't know the science behind it, but cynicism redundantly gives way to reality.

I don't know about REM periods, but I do know from experience that 'time' is relative, right now is all there is and that is the essence of lucidity, not whether I think that I've logically had dreams that last hours, or whether you outright call bullshit on everything outside of your box, without the consideration that it is relative to interpretation.

Time dilation, time being subjective and dilation being the expansion of that subjective interpretation. I don't see how you can call 'bullshit' on that, unless you believe that time is entirely objective, which you've expressed you don't -- it looks contradicting.

Have to say, your Zen Master posturing is tedious in the extreme.

NREM dreams are very different from REM dreams - so hardly a technicality.

Why is it whenever I read TIME DILATION on the board, it is always described by some self proclaimed lucid guru with mastery of dream time and space. Apparently.

It is very much not sold as being a matter of perception, but as being able to make a 30 minute dream actually last 2 hours using only the power of their giant minds! And it is this - clearly - which I am calling Bullshit.

http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/dreamtime.html

any people believe that hours' worth of events and activities can be dreamed about in a matter seconds. Despite this common belief about how we dream, time in dreams actually is not compressed. If you dream of an activity that would take five minutes in waking life, you probably dream about it for a full five minutes.

Dream and sleep researcher William Dement conducted two studies that demonstrated that dream time was similar to real time. Because dreamers' eyes move under their eyelids very rapidly while they are dreaming, Dement was able to monitor sleepers and record the length of their dreams by observing their rapid eye movement.

After recording this information, Dement would wake dreamers and have them write down a description of their most recent dream. He assumed that longer dreams would take more words to describe than shorter ones. When he compared the number of words in each dream report with the number of minutes the dream had occurred, he found that the longer the dream, the more words the dreamer used to describe it.

In another related experiment, Dement woke sleepers while they were dreaming and asked them how long they perceived their most recent dream had taken. Eighty-three percent of the time they perceived correctly whether their dreams had been going on for a long time or for a short time. With these experiments, Dement concluded that time in dreams is nearly identical to time in waking life.

So the next time in your dreams you slay a dragon or fly from your house to your workplace, the amount of time it seemed to take is probably just about how long it actually took to dream it.

http://www.here-be-dreams.com/lucid/time-distort.html

Time in Dreams
A Broken Arrow
Many people worry that they might become "stuck" in a lucid dream. This fear is probably fuelled by the number of stories and TV shows that have used this device. In fact it's far more likely that the shock of becoming lucid will wake you too early.
Experiments have shown that time in dreams seems to flow at the same rate as time in the "real" world. If that's so then how come some of our dreams seem to last hours, days or even longer?

The answer seems to be that dreams are "cinematic".


Dream Cinema
Cinematic? That just means that - like a film - our dreams tend to concentrate on the interesting bits of the story and leave out most of the boring, mundane stuff. Films almost always cover a period of time longer than the two hours you spend in the cinema.
Imagine you're watching a movie and the main character wants to drive from home to the office. You'd probably see a shot of them getting into the car, maybe a couple of shots of the journey with scenery or traffic jams to set the mood, then a shot of the car pulling up in front of the office. A trip of half an hour or more would probably be reduced to around fifteen seconds screen time.

Dreams work the same way.

This can cause problems for some lucid dreamers. Imagine you are dreaming that you are in your apartment. You look out of the window and see a party in the street below. You want to join in.

Many people would automatically walk out of the room into the hallway, to the front door, open it, walk down the stairs, out into the street... By which time they might have woken up!

The way round this is to practice having your lucid dreams work in the same cinematic fashion as ordinary dreams. Get into the habit of just saying to your mind "make it so"! Simply will yourself to be out of your apartment and in the middle of the party, without all that tedious mucking about in normal space in between. If you really have trouble with this then you could try imagining some form of teleportation effect.

Life is short. Dreams are shorter. Don't waste them.

Despite all your "proof" that it is impossible to dilate dream time, many important intellectual minds like Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla, Aldoux Huxley, etc used this technique as an advanced way of thinking. Here is an example of someone using his daydreams to slow down time and by doing that, being able to calculate faster than a calculator. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/a...athemagic.html.

I can't wait until someone makes a post on how they just woke up from a 10 year dream, or something. I just can't wait...

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Despite all your "proof" that it is impossible to dilate dream time, many important intellectual minds like Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla, Aldoux Huxley, etc used this technique as an advanced way of thinking. Here is an example of someone using his daydreams to slow down time and by doing that, being able to calculate faster than a calculator. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/a...athemagic.html.

Wouldn't call it my proof.
The research was by sleep scientists.

Not sure of the relevance of your link. Rain man could count very quickly, and was apparently a very good driver.
But I am fairly certain he couldn't stretch time like toffee.

There was a lame joke on last night's episode of Fringe about time dialation.


A man asks his doctor "If I give up women, booze and song, will I live longer?"

The doctor replies "No, but it will feel longer."

Originally Posted by Lucid Lobster

I can't answer your question but your sig gave me an idea for a movie.

They made it already, it's called The Matrix.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

There was a lame joke on last night's episode of Fringe about time dialation.


A man asks his doctor "If I give up women, booze and song, will I live longer?"

The doctor replies "No, but it will feel longer."

Which actually sums up the reality quite nicely!

Originally Posted by moonshine

It is very much not sold as being a matter of perception, but as being able to make a 30 minute dream actually last 2 hours using only the power of their giant minds! And it is this - clearly - which I am calling Bullshit.

I see what you're getting at, and I think we're on different pages here. Its not making a 30 minute dream actually longer, its about making it seem longer. Farfetched concept I know but I chase it nonetheless just for the possibility.

Either way I don't think I can contribute anymore here. To the OP, I suggest you check out mindfulness meditation and similar techniques if you want to look into this stuff more. Its all about honing perception/awareness into the physical world more.