Thread: Occupy Dreamviews

"The minimum wage increased the quality of life only for Americans who were lucky enough to hold a job despite possessing levels of productivity below the wages paid. Not only have businesses suffered by paying those who aren't worth the wages they're being paid, but it's one of the causes of unemployment. Good luck running a business with 20 employees when you can only afford to hire 10 due to the min."

If everyone has more money, you'll sell more... if your product is good. If you go out of business, good, your product sucks, get creative and make a product people with nice minimal wages can and will buy.

Originally Posted by Wayfaerer

"The minimum wage increased the quality of life only for Americans who were lucky enough to hold a job despite possessing levels of productivity below the wages paid. Not only have businesses suffered by paying those who aren't worth the wages they're being paid, but it's one of the causes of unemployment. Good luck running a business with 20 employees when you can only afford to hire 10 due to the min."

If everyone has more money, you'll sell more... if your product is good. If you go out of business, good, your product sucks, get creative and make a product people with nice minimal wages can and will buy.

But everyone won't have more money. Only those privileged few who are being paid higher than what they're worth. In a way, it's Bastiat all over again

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

But everyone won't have more money. Only those privileged few who are being paid higher than what they're worth. In a way, it's Bastiat all over again

This is why occupy isn't a single issue movement and talks about a systemic problem

You're right that having more money doesn't equal purchasing power. There is a legitimate concern that increasing wages will land us in the same spot because corporations will want to sustain the status quo - and just increase the price of everything. This is further complicated that our American dollar is being issued out by a private bank - for profit. Which is then even further complicated that everything runs on oil - and oil companies happily name their price and directly influence the purchasing power of the dollar.

Increasing the purchasing power in wages is a secondary goal. First, we gotta end the fed.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Meaning installing a living wage in order to spur economic development would be nonsensical.

Its for humanitarian purposes first. No worker should live in poverty.

Originally Posted by juroara

Its for humanitarian purposes first. No worker should live in poverty.

Try to get this through your skull: most low skilled workers would be laid off and would therefore be making zero dollars if the minimum wage was drastically increased. Businesses aren't charities, and no sane employer would hire someone for more money than that person brings in extra profit. This is an extremely simple idea, why can't you get it?

Originally Posted by cmind

Businesses aren't charities, and no sane employer would hire someone for more money than that person brings in extra profit. This is an extremely simple idea, why can't you get it?

Dude, seriously

A single Mc Donalds employee can reaps in THOUSANDS of dollars in profit in a single day - If not even in a single hour. How is asking they make a bigger portion of the pie unfair and unrealistic?

I don't understand why we even elect politicians who have the freedom to make important decisions by themselves. Why isn't every important decision subjected to the citizens vote? It might force everyone to actually think for themselves...

nonsensical living wage?

Originally Posted by juroara

nonsensical living wage?

Meaning installing a living wage in order to spur economic development would be nonsensical.

I don't think we can do things like this with mere taxes, I think there should be "projects" where people who are stupidly rich can be honored for being a philosophically wise person by putting their name on a plaque or something and seriously bring some positive stimulus to the foundation of the country, creating a sort of "strong foundation effect", you know, like the rest of nature works.

"There is a legitimate concern that increasing wages will land us in the same spot because corporations will want to sustain the status quo - and just increase the price of everything."

Those businesses should then be replaced by genuinely good and original businesses who aren't arrogant enough to demand unfair prices.

Why can't the government give money to businesses to accommodate the higher minimum wage?

Originally Posted by Wayfaerer

Why can't the government give money to businesses to accommodate the higher minimum wage?

Where are they gonna get the money to do that from? You can't just make money without devaluing currency. So the only way they could do that would be to tax people, which takes more money away from the people. It solves no problems. The government doesn't provide much of anything so they can't create wealth. They can't create wealth, products or (useful)jobs, they just move money around.

I guess it could only come from people who have the money.

Originally Posted by Wayfaerer

I guess it could only come from people who have the money.

False. The poor and middle class pay all taxes. Inflation is paid mostly by the poor, and income taxes are paid mostly by the middle class. The rich don't pay taxes, and even if you somehow concocted a foolproof way to tax them personally, guess what? They'll just move their businesses to some other country. And who gets the shaft? The poor and middle class again, having less jobs.

The US shouldn't even trade with countries that have exploitative labor laws.

I don't think taxes are gonna do much. I think these problems need to be solved on a whole different realm apart from law and politics. There are people out there with billions of dollars, sitting there, century after century, just so they can have the comfort in knowing that they can always live a life of sickeningly excessive luxury if they wanted to, just to be inherited by their children who can do the same. What these people should be convinced to realize is that they are analogous to tumors, blocking off the flow of energy to the rest of the brain they refuse to accept they are in the most literal sense a part of, one with. If the philosophy of our culture can rise up more strongly to this concept, and make these people in power realize it as well, they might convert their latent billions to energy for the whole of the country. They can set up projects they all agree upon, providing money for higher minimal standards of living for their whole country they often so identify with, providing promising new and original small businesses with the means to compete with big corporations or suppressing them from increasing their prices. I'm sure one of these people will be no less happy or fulfilled if they choose not to buy a second yacht and instead use the few million for such a cause, they might even feel more fulfilled.

^ Who spends a greater portion of their wealth on personal luxury, the rich or the poor? Take a moment to think about it.

^ Americans would prefer "Busting their ass" to just barely get by. Because that's what real men do.



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Originally Posted by juroara

that picture kinda reminds me of downtown

Downtown near where I live looks like this: (and ironically, Canada is very socialist for North American standards)

@Spartiate: Our government is very left. The current running party is the Conservative Party, which is not really conservative. And some of the current policies are very left. Just look at all the government handouts that are handed out, and all the lower class accommodations that are given (lower tax brackets, welfare which is insane), and "free" universal health care".

You said you didn't wait in line at the hospital? Either that isn't a hospital in Canada or that is one really empty hospital, because every time I go to even a doctor's office I'm waiting at least 30 minutes. Don't get me started on the hospital waits. And the not paying a cent part, look at your taxes. I would kill for the low American taxes. Also, the only people I hear about getting subsidized for post secondary are the people who get scholarships.

Oh god, the CBC, how much of a waste of money that is. And liquor commissions, I don't drink but the taxes on it (and things like tobacco) are ridiculous. Green taxes, directly cost the consumer. How will a company make for lost revenue going to these tree hugging taxes? Cut wages, downsize, lay-offs, or, the most common, increase prices. HST, the biggest government b.s. Instead of paying only GST on an item, now I have to pay both GST and PST on it, but it's OK, its "harmonized". Also, the HST compounds tax on tax on already taxed items (gasoline, alcohol, tobacco, certain foods, etc...). But hey! At least I don't have the inconvenience of bringing my check book to the hospital!

Originally Posted by crazydude007

@Spartiate: Our government is very left. The current running party is the Conservative Party, which is not really conservative. And some of the current policies are very left. Just look at all the government handouts that are handed out, and all the lower class accommodations that are given (lower tax brackets, welfare which is insane), and "free" universal health care".

Uhhh... are you sure you're addressing the right person?

I'm Canadian and l am on the Right.

I'd hope. I didn't read through all the posts, and all I saw was Canada, so I figured I'd comment.

I'm Canadian and I lean on the left.

You must be terribly uncomfortable here.