Thread: Occupy Dreamviews

Originally Posted by Xei

So you're saying look at US housing,



compare it to state, for example Soviet, housing,



and thus conclude that people should not have the choice to decide what services they want to pay for?

That's a pretty crummy post coming from you. You could just as easily compare public housing in Canada...




... to private housing in South Africa:




This is not an accurate way of portraying either system.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

That's a pretty crummy post coming from you. You could just as easily compare public housing in Canada...


... to private housing in South Africa:

http://www.heritage.org/Index/

Indices of Economic Freedom:

Canada - 6th
South Africa - 74th

So you're portraying the 6th most economically free country in the world as socialist, and the 74th as capitalist? No wonder you're confused.

By the way, on the subject of Canadian "socialism", it's funny that the low taxes and regulations we now have up here would be considered extreme right-wing tea party stuff down south. Although Canada leaves much to be desired, calling it socialist compared to the US is not in tune with reality.

Originally Posted by cmind

Index of Economic Freedom: Promoting Economic Opportunity and Prosperity | The Heritage Foundation

Indices of Economic Freedom:

Canada - 6th
South Africa - 74th

So you're portraying the 6th most economically free country in the world as socialist, and the 74th as capitalist? No wonder you're confused.

By the way, on the subject of Canadian "socialism", it's funny that the low taxes and regulations we now have up here would be considered extreme right-wing tea party stuff down south. Although Canada leaves much to be desired, calling it socialist compared to the US is not in tune with reality.

Xei put a picture of a rather nice private dwelling next to a rather crummy public dwelling in what I felt was more of an appeal to emotions than logic. I put a picture of a rather nice public dwelling next to a rather crummy private dwelling to make a point. Not sure what's confusing about that or what it has to do with that list you posted (which is a poor indicator or "socialism" if Switzerland is at the top ).

Canada is well known for its left-wing politics, even under Conservative rule (which hasn't been all that conservative). As a toddler I went to a state-run daycare. I attended public school and got free post-secondary education. I went to the hospital a few weeks ago for some tests and didn't pay a cent (didn't wait in line either). Hell when I first started my current job I even got money from both the federal and provincial governments because my income "was too low".

I'd like to see any of that fly south of the border.

HST, "Green taxes", crown corporations, state media (CBC), liquor commissions, Bombardier-style subsidizing, etc. etc. We stand on the left wing.

^ Americans would prefer "Busting their ass" to just barely get by. Because that's what real men do.



()

Originally Posted by cmind

Businesses aren't charities, and no sane employer would hire someone for more money than that person brings in extra profit. This is an extremely simple idea, why can't you get it?

Dude, seriously

A single Mc Donalds employee can reaps in THOUSANDS of dollars in profit in a single day - If not even in a single hour. How is asking they make a bigger portion of the pie unfair and unrealistic?

My home town:

Veteran shoots self at Vermont encampment, protesters say; hospital spokesman says he has died

Originally Posted by Spartiate

That's a pretty crummy post coming from you. You could just as easily compare public housing in Canada...

I know. It wasn't my argument.

Originally Posted by Xei

I know. It wasn't my argument.

Enlighten me then.

Originally Posted by juroara

that picture kinda reminds me of downtown

Downtown near where I live looks like this: (and ironically, Canada is very socialist for North American standards)

@Spartiate: Our government is very left. The current running party is the Conservative Party, which is not really conservative. And some of the current policies are very left. Just look at all the government handouts that are handed out, and all the lower class accommodations that are given (lower tax brackets, welfare which is insane), and "free" universal health care".

You said you didn't wait in line at the hospital? Either that isn't a hospital in Canada or that is one really empty hospital, because every time I go to even a doctor's office I'm waiting at least 30 minutes. Don't get me started on the hospital waits. And the not paying a cent part, look at your taxes. I would kill for the low American taxes. Also, the only people I hear about getting subsidized for post secondary are the people who get scholarships.

Oh god, the CBC, how much of a waste of money that is. And liquor commissions, I don't drink but the taxes on it (and things like tobacco) are ridiculous. Green taxes, directly cost the consumer. How will a company make for lost revenue going to these tree hugging taxes? Cut wages, downsize, lay-offs, or, the most common, increase prices. HST, the biggest government b.s. Instead of paying only GST on an item, now I have to pay both GST and PST on it, but it's OK, its "harmonized". Also, the HST compounds tax on tax on already taxed items (gasoline, alcohol, tobacco, certain foods, etc...). But hey! At least I don't have the inconvenience of bringing my check book to the hospital!

Originally Posted by crazydude007

@Spartiate: Our government is very left. The current running party is the Conservative Party, which is not really conservative. And some of the current policies are very left. Just look at all the government handouts that are handed out, and all the lower class accommodations that are given (lower tax brackets, welfare which is insane), and "free" universal health care".

Uhhh... are you sure you're addressing the right person?

I'd hope. I didn't read through all the posts, and all I saw was Canada, so I figured I'd comment.

I'm Canadian and I lean on the left.

I'm Canadian and l am on the Right.

You must be terribly uncomfortable here.

Originally Posted by cmind

By the way, on the subject of Canadian "socialism", it's funny that the low taxes and regulations we now have up here would be considered extreme right-wing tea party stuff down south. Although Canada leaves much to be desired, calling it socialist compared to the US is not in tune with reality.

It's socialist up here. It is. Two was to tell, first go to your doctor and ask for a flu shot. Look at how much you just payed up front. Now, go home and look at your tax documents, look at how much you just payed for the flu shot.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

You must be terribly uncomfortable here.

Not old enough to really feel the effects of it all, but I can tell its going to be a lovely shit storm in the near future.

Originally Posted by crazydude007

Not old enough to really feel the effects of it all, but I can tell its going to be a lovely shit storm in the near future.

How old are you? Canada has been this way for a very long time and we are one of the most prosperous nations on the planet, it's no coincidence.

interesting read.

The mathematical law that shows why wealth flows to the 1% | Alok Jha | Comment is free | The Guardian

So they're saying because things like words follow an 80/20 rule therefore so does prosperity?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

How old are you? Canada has been this way for a very long time and we are one of the most prosperous nations on the planet, it's no coincidence.

No doubt it's prosperous, which is why I love it so much, but there are a few kinks which can be ironed out. I am 17, almost 18.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

So they're saying because things like words follow an 80/20 rule therefore so does prosperity?

Possibly, but it's not that cut-and-dry. Obviously the "80/20 split" in prosperity is not to be found in many countries. They could be way off base, I just thought it was good food for thought, particularly the last paragraph.

Originally Posted by IndieAnthias

Possibly, but it's not that cut-and-dry. Obviously the "80/20 split" in prosperity is not to be found in many countries. They could be way off base, I just thought it was good food for thought, particularly the last paragraph.

Yeah I went back and finished the article and read up on the theories it was referring to. I like the article a lot though because it favors a progressive tax system and it reminds you the rule falls into so many categories, for instance 80% of WOW hours are logged by 20% of WOW owners. It's like a law of holonic fifths and extremes, but it's not perfectly predictable as it must compromise with Complexity. Still, this more or less creates a system of hierarchy for everything. For WOW, for instance, you have Wow Players (bottom 80%), Basement Trolls (Top 20%), No Lifers (Top 4%) and Utterly Pathetic (Top 1%)

For fat people you have chubby (bottom 80%), husky (top 20%), fluffy (top 5%) and DAMN (top 1%)

Originally Posted by crazydude007

No doubt it's prosperous, which is why I love it so much, but there are a few kinks which can be ironed out. I am 17, almost 18.

So I assume you're looking at post-secondary education. How do you feel about getting heavily indebted before even getting a job? In Canada, university tuition is heavily subsidized to make it more affordable to the common man. Just compare tuition costs between Canada and the US. Are you saying that you'd rather be paying 5 figure tuitions towards a degree that is essential in the job market? Is that reasonable, fair?

Say you're one of the lucky few that has a mommy and daddy with deep pockets and you don't have to worry about this. Do you want to live in a country where proper education is unaffordable? How would that impact society in general, how would that impact you?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

... to private housing in South Africa:


.

I'm impressed they manage to build anything with that tin material. I even see windows. How did they know that when they didn't go to school or anything, and where did they get the tin from? Pretty resourceful.