Thread: Cloning Pets

What's really weird is when you consider exact duplicates and how precisely they would work. I imagine you agree that your consciousness is a product of your brain function. It does not matter that your brain is made of protein, fat, ions, water, etcetera (especially as there is a constant flow of this material into and out of your body). So, if you replaced each neuron with a silicon chip that worked in exactly the same way as the neuron (one by one if you want), you don't anticipate your consciousness being affected. But then what if instead, you replaced each neuron with two silicon chips each time, so that eventually you have two distinct brains, which can then be separated. Which one are you?

Originally Posted by Xei

What's really weird is when you consider exact duplicates and how precisely they would work. I imagine you agree that your consciousness is a product of your brain function. It does not matter that your brain is made of protein, fat, ions, water, etcetera (especially as there is a constant flow of this material into and out of your body). So, if you replaced each neuron with a silicon chip that worked in exactly the same way as the neuron (one by one if you want), you don't anticipate your consciousness being affected. But then what if instead, you replaced each neuron with two silicon chips each time, so that eventually you have two distinct brains, which can then be separated. Which one are you?

Ways to avoid this conundrum: Not attempting to replace your brain at all!

Originally Posted by Xei

What's really weird is when you consider exact duplicates and how precisely they would work. I imagine you agree that your consciousness is a product of your brain function. It does not matter that your brain is made of protein, fat, ions, water, etcetera (especially as there is a constant flow of this material into and out of your body). So, if you replaced each neuron with a silicon chip that worked in exactly the same way as the neuron (one by one if you want), you don't anticipate your consciousness being affected. But then what if instead, you replaced each neuron with two silicon chips each time, so that eventually you have two distinct brains, which can then be separated. Which one are you?

This reminds me of people who have undergone a hemispherectomy. Many of them have regained significant cognitive functions with essentially half a brain. This means that if you could hypothetically separate a healthy person's brain and place one of the halves into another body, you'd end up with two distinct conscious entities...

Originally Posted by Spartiate

This reminds me of people who have undergone a hemispherectomy. Many of them have regained significant cognitive functions with essentially half a brain. This means that if you could hypothetically separate a healthy person's brain and place one of the halves into another body, you'd end up with two distinct conscious entities...

That's only because most people don't use the left side of their brain all that much.

And, from wiki "Generally, the greater the intellectual capacity of the patient prior to surgery, the greater the decline in function."
You can't remove half a person's brain and expect them to go back to normal.
Significant cognitive function is relative. And the only reports I've heard are just showing that they lose a lot less abilities than you'd think they would.
And let's face it, living a "normal life" is not too taxing on the intellect. A trained monkey could to 90% of the jobs that humans do. A trained monkey besides a human I mean.

However I do agree it would be interesting to see if both halves retained their ego. I suppose it would help answer whether the ego is just retained in these half-brained people due to continuation of experience.

EDIT: Just read the next page, seems a lot of people are mentioning continuity lol

The concept of a ship as a singular object is just a mental construct. The duplication of the ship isn't 'real' in the atomic sense, it's just that the result is two objects which both create that concept of a ship in our brains. There's no paradox there. But of course, this falls apart when you consider your own consciousness. It doesn't make sense of consciousness to just be something in your consciousness, that's cyclical.

What if you created the "ship" atoms in the same formation?

Consciousness is not just something in your consciousness. There is a physical basis for it.
Consciousness arises from that, the brain assumes there is a "separate" "you" in there somewhere and it creates this concept of consciousness.

Originally Posted by tommo

That's only because most people don't use the left side of their brain all that much.

Firstly, what? Secondly... what?

Originally Posted by Xei

Firstly, what? Secondly... what?

It was half a joke. I just mean most people don't use logic all that much.

Baring some really strange unforeseen side effect in which you find yourself as both at the same time, which is very unlikely, you will experience things as one or the other. I suppose it is entirely random which one you would experience being. There is no way to know unless you did it, and then only you would know. Since no one else could tell the difference, and the other you would be experiencing the same thing but in the other body.

Originally Posted by Alric

Baring some really strange unforeseen side effect in which you find yourself as both at the same time, which is very unlikely, you will experience things as one or the other. I suppose it is entirely random which one you would experience being. There is no way to know unless you did it, and then only you would know. Since no one else could tell the difference, and the other you would be experiencing the same thing but in the other body.

Wasn't that the premise of The Sixth Day?

Spoiler for spoiler:

The clone believed he was the original.

Originally Posted by Xei

What's really weird is when you consider exact duplicates and how precisely they would work. I imagine you agree that your consciousness is a product of your brain function. It does not matter that your brain is made of protein, fat, ions, water, etcetera (especially as there is a constant flow of this material into and out of your body). So, if you replaced each neuron with a silicon chip that worked in exactly the same way as the neuron (one by one if you want), you don't anticipate your consciousness being affected. But then what if instead, you replaced each neuron with two silicon chips each time, so that eventually you have two distinct brains, which can then be separated. Which one are you?

Wow, that's a tricky question alright. But on the plus side I have another TV reference that deals with a very similar thing in the form of a Star Trek episode! Even if strictly speaking it makes no sense because of the conservation of energy and all that.

It's tempting to simply postulate that half of those replacement silicon neurons would be redundant and therefore not actually contributing anything - it would certainly make answering the question much easier if that were true - but that would be intellectually lazy of me since I can't think of any particularly convincing argument why this should be the case. Not to mention that even if this were true, how could anyone determine which ones are redundant and so remove those?

What's particularly vexing about this example is that other identity thought experiments don't do much to help. For example, take the Ship of Theseus. If I replace one plank in the hull with two planks, then either they combined take up the same space as the gap left by the original, or one plank can be removed because it's redundant and not actually fulfilling any function. I don't think I've come across any other examples where one part could be replaced with two parts where both carry out the exact same function equally, and then split apart later to create two objects with the same properties as the original.

I think my answer to this at the moment would be that it depends on how the splitting process is achieved. If I replace every neuron in your brain individually with two chips, then I would suggest that you are still you. If I come along later and take half of these out whilst still maintaining the original form of the brain, you would still be you, and creating another brain out of these removed parts would be the same as creating a biological clone. Or alternatively, if I take your brain out completely and break it down into two piles and then make them into two copies of your brain, this would involve destroying the original consciousness and creating two new ones. The continuity of existence of an object is important here.

Thought-provoking stuff. I need a drink now.

Originally Posted by Xei

What's really weird is when you consider exact duplicates and how precisely they would work. I imagine you agree that your consciousness is a product of your brain function. It does not matter that your brain is made of protein, fat, ions, water, etcetera (especially as there is a constant flow of this material into and out of your body). So, if you replaced each neuron with a silicon chip that worked in exactly the same way as the neuron (one by one if you want), you don't anticipate your consciousness being affected. But then what if instead, you replaced each neuron with two silicon chips each time, so that eventually you have two distinct brains, which can then be separated. Which one are you?

If the original brain is destroyed, then you are neither of them.