lol, go back to Alabama. |
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...You are now forced to accept that Obama has taken that title. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
lol, go back to Alabama. |
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what? afghanistan didn't attack the usa... |
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Last edited by dajo; 06-19-2011 at 02:33 PM.
Not everything Obama did was right, but the OP is saying that Obama was worse than Bush. Can you name ONE thing that Bush got right? |
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I agree that it's useless to the discussion to brand him as 'the worst' now or to compare him directly. It's unnecessarily polarizing and I am not arguing this position. But there is quite a list of actual criticism about Obama that makes him far from the savior he was marketed out to be and a lot of this image remains today. When we're speaking about Obama and Bush, we are just talking about different shades of grey - it's politics after all. And I think that actual criticism is important here. left vs right is a false dichotomy and I think that was the purpose of this thread. |
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Except he also said that it shouldn't be illegal. And then when asked during that online question thing (marijuana legalisation was the top question) he just shunned all his online voters who basically got him elected in the first place. |
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'Worst president ever'? I thought that kind of hyperbole is reserved for bickering children, not serious political discussions. You really think the two worst presidents both happened to hold office in the last two terms out of more than fifty? Or do you think you may be slightly skewing things towards your times? |
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I missed this one, sorry. Just one example concerning medical marihuana recently: |
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Uhm... those were Bush policies, both have been reversed. We ARE giving aid for contraception and abortion supporting countries, that happened in the first week of his presidency. No Child Left Behind has been largely revoked, again that was a Bush screwup, not an Obama one. |
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Last edited by ninja9578; 06-19-2011 at 03:50 PM.
I'm definitely not one to dismiss the negatives during Obama's administration (those that I'm aware of, at least), but I don't think a lot of people are giving him his due credit. I'm a bit on the fence about how I feel about his term overall, but there are a few things that shouldn't be ignored: |
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Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
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Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
False....my brother (who's under a private contract) is still over there, and I have another brother of mine that's going in a few months under a private contract. As for how many troops are out there...that's also bogus. Many of them came back home, and redeployed shortly after under a different operation title so they (the press) can sugar coat that there are less combat arms units out there. They have different titles, but they're doing the same thing. I get my info from people who are over there on a daily basis...not the associated press. |
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Actually there is a valid view that the more recent the president the worse he is. There is a definite trend since the beginning of our country for president to expand their powers. So each president gets more powers than the last, each president has more control than the last. They also seem to spend more and more. So Bush was spending more than the first thirty combined, and then Obama is spending even more than that. So there is an obvious trend. If you judge a president by the debt, or how invasive their policies are, or how much they increase the government, the newer ones are far worse than the ones that came before them. |
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You asked me to elaborate on marihuana, it was just one of the examples. It's the bigger issues that I rather criticize. Take the war on drugs for example that actually has strong negative effects that he will do nothing about. But what I am more concerned about is the expansion of the secretive state, while advocating more transparency of the government at first in 2009. When Bush did it, people were complaining, yet Obama has been driving this route since day one. Many of his policies are along these lines. On the one hand, he speaks out against torture, then he stops investigation into torture by declaring it a state secret and making the government immune to judicial reviews. But he signed to close that one famous facility, so it's alright. He actually spends more on the war on terror, *cough*sorry, the Overseas Contingency Operation than Bush ever did, yet in 2009 he once declared to 'end it'. He was rewarded the nobel peace price for campaigning on military reduction, yet he spent much more than anybody before. Prolonged Detention and his handling of the Patriot Act extension is just the tip of the iceberg. Thank you Auron for bringing up the issue with private contract soldiers, I read about it before. It demonstrates (again) very nicely, how by changing semantics and technicalities, he can keep his promise while remaining the status quo or even exceeding it. I believe it is called having your cake and eating it too. Or doublespeak, make your pick. But ultimately it shows yet again that, while he sure may be a persuasive public speaker, it doesn't matter who is in office. |
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Last edited by dajo; 06-19-2011 at 06:45 PM.
I though it was pretty clear that I was saying those were bush's policies, and supporting some of your claims. |
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Last edited by tommo; 06-19-2011 at 06:59 PM.
Yeah man...he's gotta make sure that Patriot Act gets renewed and ink is the most expensive liquid in the world. /sarcasm |
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Just out of curiosity, of those claiming they gave up on the government, or that they realized it's useless, or whatever, how many of you still vote? |
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The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
Formerly known as BLUELINE976
For those that didn't read the OP, it states that those that believed GW to be the worst must now apply that label to Obama because he has done the same negative things that Bush did and more. It did not adopt the position that either of those presidents were in fact "the worst", or that such a label can ever be accurately applied. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 06-19-2011 at 10:08 PM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
From what I've gathered, Bush sped up America's militarization and brought like-minded folks to power in his government. Has Obama taken as many militarist/imperialist strides? |
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Last edited by GavinGill; 06-19-2011 at 10:54 PM.
Well, the like minded people that Obama brought on board would be members of the banking class as well as powerful and influential corporate players. He expanded the war in Afghanistan, continued the war in Iraq, renewed the patriot act, engaged in hostilities in Libya (although claims that since it is drones firing missiles there, it is technically not "hostilities"). His "Universal Healthcare" came out looking more like "required health insurance" that benefits the insurance companies above all else, he refused to allow investigations and prosecutions for the crimes committed by the Bush administration including 6.6 Billion dollars that were possibly stolen by private contractors (read:haliburton) during the Iraq war. He reneged on shutting down Guantanamo and continues the unconstitutional detainment and torture that is being perpetrated there. He has given more money to banks and allowed the federal reserve to continue sending U.S. currency to foreign banks. Should I go on? |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Let's not forget Yemen. |
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The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
Formerly known as BLUELINE976
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