What does the Alien Presence mean?

[juroara]

FOR THE SKEPTICS Its so hard to take a moment and to realize that there is a literal physical alien presence here on earth!!!! Naturally skeptics want evidence - But right now GETTING that kind of evidence isn't practical. The UFO phenomenon is kinda like this. There is a very powerful force that doesn't want you to know that there is an alien presence right now. I'm not talking about the world governments. Its the alien presence itself that aims to keep itself secret. Did we all miss the obvious? First contact didn't happen like in the movies. Its now clear why governments hide this stuff - they are scared. PART TWO Theres so much garbage out there about this alien reality. First we have new age who claim to channel messages from our space brothers. No real good has ever come from that except extreme fear of anything that doesn't look human. I mean, basically the message from the space brothers is "if it looks human its good if it doesn't its EVIL". And its just as hard to trust anything someone says after having worked for the industrial military complex, that just leads to circular logic of mis and disinformation agents. The only testimony that matters now is you and me, the average person. A CASE FOR ABDUCTION New age teaches that all alien abductions happen in the astral. Well that just translates to dreams or hallucinations to skeptics. And it doesn't help that now many believe abduction is just a really scary sleep paralysis. But its very damaging to think of all alien encounters as nothing more but a dream or astral projection. (astral is a part of the picture because traversing solar systems would require the manipulation of space-time) There are physical abductions taking place. And they have physical consequences. Many abductees have had to been hospitalized after their horrific event. Blisters and burns all over their body. Excess exposure to radiation. Abductions that happen in the waking are accompanied by loss of time. You're driving and suddenly your clock skips two hours. But there are little clues here and there that something weird happened. A lump of skin might be suddenly missing, but theres no cut. Or maybe you feel something underneath your skin, that moments ago wasn't there. The implant is the best physical evidence we have that something actually happened. The next best physical evidence is the landing pad. In one case, the abductee was taken while they were sleeping. Outside their home was a burnt circular patch. The soil had begun to crystallize, as if it came into contact with an incredible energy source. Military personnel have also documented the same phenomenon. GOOD OR EVIL? Abduction experiences are said to be so consistent that researchers have come to two conclusions. They are real. Or, they are embedded deep in the human unconscious. Problem with the latter is it ignores what physical evidence we have. Abductions are physically happening. But what the hell does it all mean? Is this good or bad? Innocent people are kidnapped, paralyzed probed and tormented against their will. Thats only the start. They're also raped or forced to have intercourse with other abductees or some alien hybrid. Babies and children have also been reported to be taken - sometimes never returned. What benevolent being would torment you against your will, hide in a veil of secrecy and kidnap your love ones? We can rule out that these aliens are not benevolent - But we can also rule out that they are not evil. It was UFOs that stopped nuclear war. If you don't know what I'm talking about then you know nothing about the UFO phenomenon. And even though these aliens abduct people against their will, they also go to great extent to ensure - that the poor little human doesn't remember it and can simply go about their happy little life!!!! You've gotta give props to them on that. How different is this to our catch-n-release program of feral cats, where we snip their reproductive organs to bits? Its hard to determine if the aliens are trying to help us, or manipulate us. But we can conclude they can delude themselves into thinking they have only our best intentions at heart. Not that its true. The aliens have made attempts to make the medical examination less traumatizing. For example: This one guy, upon realizing he's actually awake becomes hysterical and screams during his alien medical examination. The alien walks over to a computer scream and an electronic voice speaks "How can we ease your screaming?". On top of that, if the human cooperates with the medical examination they are rewarded with touring around the space craft. Many report, contrary to New Age, that the Reptilians and the Humanoids are working together. CONCLUSION - THE OLDEST STORY ON EARTH Human-Alien hybrids are at the center of the abduction experience. Its clear the Aliens aim to mutate the human DNA. What's not clear is why. Who benefits from a hybrid human race? Some abductees testify the aliens have explained it is for OUR benefit, to prevent global destruction. But the secrecy and lack of openness involved is disturbing. But whats clear is this, this is the oldest story on earth. It all goes back to humankinds first writing on the walls, in ancient Sumer. There, the god like beings who come from the stars create us, and we serve them. anyways, im done

[Marvo]

You should kill us all on sight.

[Supernova]

Guys I'm srsly there are aliens on earth IT IS A FACT Evidence, that's kinda inconvenient though. BUT YI'M SRSLY YOU GUYS

[Descensus]

FOR THE SKEPTICS Its so hard to take a moment and to realize that there is a literal physical alien presence here on earth!!!! Naturally skeptics want evidence - But right now GETTING that kind of evidence isn't practical. So what you're telling us is that there's no evidence. Got it. The UFO phenomenon is kinda like this. There is a very powerful force that doesn't want you to know that there is an alien presence right now. I'm not talking about the world governments. Its the alien presence itself that aims to keep itself secret. Did we all miss the obvious? First contact didn't happen like in the movies. Its now clear why governments hide this stuff - they are scared. PART TWO Theres so much garbage out there about this alien reality. First we have new age who claim to channel messages from our space brothers. No real good has ever come from that except extreme fear of anything that doesn't look human. I mean, basically the message from the space brothers is "if it looks human its good if it doesn't its EVIL". And its just as hard to trust anything someone says after having worked for the industrial military complex, that just leads to circular logic of mis and disinformation agents. The only testimony that matters now is you and me, the average person. A CASE FOR ABDUCTION New age teaches that all alien abductions happen in the astral. Well that just translates to dreams or hallucinations to skeptics. And it doesn't help that now many believe abduction is just a really scary sleep paralysis. But its very damaging to think of all alien encounters as nothing more but a dream or astral projection. (astral is a part of the picture because traversing solar systems would require the manipulation of space-time) There are physical abductions taking place. And they have physical consequences. Many abductees have had to been hospitalized after their horrific event. Blisters and burns all over their body. Excess exposure to radiation. Abductions that happen in the waking are accompanied by loss of time. You're driving and suddenly your clock skips two hours. But there are little clues here and there that something weird happened. A lump of skin might be suddenly missing, but theres no cut. Or maybe you feel something underneath your skin, that moments ago wasn't there. The implant is the best physical evidence we have that something actually happened. The next best physical evidence is the landing pad. In one case, the abductee was taken while they were sleeping. Outside their home was a burnt circular patch. The soil had begun to crystallize, as if it came into contact with an incredible energy source. Military personnel have also documented the same phenomenon. GOOD OR EVIL? Abduction experiences are said to be so consistent that researchers have come to two conclusions. They are real. Or, they are embedded deep in the human unconscious. Problem with the latter is it ignores what physical evidence we have. Abductions are physically happening. But what the hell does it all mean? Is this good or bad? Innocent people are kidnapped, paralyzed probed and tormented against their will. Thats only the start. They're also raped or forced to have intercourse with other abductees or some alien hybrid. Babies and children have also been reported to be taken - sometimes never returned. What benevolent being would torment you against your will, hide in a veil of secrecy and kidnap your love ones? We can rule out that these aliens are not benevolent - But we can also rule out that they are not evil. It was UFOs that stopped nuclear war. If you don't know what I'm talking about then you know nothing about the UFO phenomenon. And even though these aliens abduct people against their will, they also go to great extent to ensure - that the poor little human doesn't remember it and can simply go about their happy little life!!!! You've gotta give props to them on that. How different is this to our catch-n-release program of feral cats, where we snip their reproductive organs to bits? Its hard to determine if the aliens are trying to help us, or manipulate us. But we can conclude they can delude themselves into thinking they have only our best intentions at heart. Not that its true. The aliens have made attempts to make the medical examination less traumatizing. For example: This one guy, upon realizing he's actually awake becomes hysterical and screams during his alien medical examination. The alien walks over to a computer scream and an electronic voice speaks "How can we ease your screaming?". On top of that, if the human cooperates with the medical examination they are rewarded with touring around the space craft. Many report, contrary to New Age, that the Reptilians and the Humanoids are working together. CONCLUSION - THE OLDEST STORY ON EARTH Human-Alien hybrids are at the center of the abduction experience. Its clear the Aliens aim to mutate the human DNA. What's not clear is why. Who benefits from a hybrid human race? Some abductees testify the aliens have explained it is for OUR benefit, to prevent global destruction. But the secrecy and lack of openness involved is disturbing. But whats clear is this, this is the oldest story on earth. It all goes back to humankinds first writing on the walls, in ancient Sumer. There, the god like beings who come from the stars create us, and we serve them. anyways, im done Have you considered seeking medical attention?

[juroara]

Evidence is hard to get if you don't understand the situation. We can't understand the situation if all we do is ridicule it to non-existence.

[Descensus]

Evidence is hard to get if you don't understand the situation. We can't understand the situation if all we do is ridicule it to non-existence. There's a reason why things like these are ridiculed. There's no evidence to support them, yet people act like they've been fully proven. And any evidence that IS put forward usually turns out to be bullshit or explained by other phenomena. I mean you fucking mentioned reptilians and humanoids and you're surprised that it gets ridiculed? This ain't no David Icke fanclub.

[juroara]

There's a reason why things like these are ridiculed. There's no evidence to support them, yet people act like they've been fully proven. And any evidence that IS put forward usually turns out to be bullshit or explained by other phenomena. I mean you fucking mentioned reptilians and humanoids and you're surprised that it gets ridiculed? This ain't no David Icke fanclub. What I am trying to illustrate is that currently we can only approach this global phenomenon as you would a crime investigation. The evidence needed for a court and the evidence needed for science are completely different. Testimony matters in court, in science human testimony means nothing. That's the challenge we have with this phenomenon. All we have is testimony. What evidence would you like presented that an alien race of superior technology is secretly conducting medical examinations on humans? How do you even begin to prove its happening? Or even, how could you even begin an honest scientific research into this if you ignore the testimony? The testimony is your road map and your only hope of finding evidence. We HAVE found physical evidence. They come from the victims themselves. There is also a huge subculture surrounding around this phenomenon, like the conspiracy that evil reptilians are about to take over the world. But that was the other point i was trying to make. A lot of these conspiracies are fueled by two sources of information - mediums who "channel" alien beings and ex-members of the industrial military complex. For reasons I stated above, neither sources of information can be trusted. When we rely on the testimony of victims a consistent picture emerges. Total strangers knowing little about the abduction experience even describe the same alien medical tools and the same procedure process. This can't be conventionally explained away by hallucination. These testimonies in my opinion would hold up in the court of law. Actually, they sort of already have. When abduction was still a new word law offices took an honest look at the victims. They treated the case as they would any other. They used the methods at their disposal to find who's lying, who's hoaxing and who's telling the truth. They instructed doctors to examine the victims and this is when high exposure to radiation and other medical anomalies were discovered backing the victims claims. These law offices concluded the victims were telling the truth and that there was no evidence of any kind of insanity. It was because these law offices, intrusted with determining the validity of claims above all others, concluded that these testimonies were true that higher governmental offices were involved. It was only after the CIA was involved did the process of ridicule begin. The victims, the law officers, the doctors and everyone else involved was ridiculed. Jobs were threatened. None of the replies in this thread are shocking. Its the same rhetoric garbage being sputtered since then. Have anyone of you here taken an honest look at the phenomenon or do you just have knee-jerk reactions taught to you by culture?

[Descensus]

What I am trying to illustrate is that currently we can only approach this global phenomenon as you would a crime investigation. The evidence needed for a court and the evidence needed for science are completely different. Testimony matters in court, in science human testimony means nothing. That's the challenge we have with this phenomenon. This isn't a court room. We're not trying to see if somebody is innocent or guilty. We're trying to see if alien civilizations are visiting us and interacting with us in some way. That is an entirely scientific endeavor. All we have is testimony. What evidence would you like presented that an alien race of superior technology is secretly conducting medical examinations on humans? How do you even begin to prove its happening? Or even, how could you even begin an honest scientific research into this if you ignore the testimony? The testimony is your road map and your only hope of finding evidence. Testimony can be a reason to start research but it does not count as evidence itself. It rests upon the word of the person giving said testimony with regard to their experiences and, in cases regarding UFO's, imagination. There's a reason why the human senses are supplemented with tools and methods in scientific inquiry: because they are imperfect and subject to bias. We HAVE found physical evidence. They come from the victims themselves. You realize hearsay and anecdotes do not count as physical evidence. There is also a huge subculture surrounding around this phenomenon, like the conspiracy that evil reptilians are about to take over the world. But that was the other point i was trying to make. A lot of these conspiracies are fueled by two sources of information - mediums who "channel" alien beings and ex-members of the industrial military complex. For reasons I stated above, neither sources of information can be trusted. The reason isn't necessarily because they work for the government or are trying to conceal something. It's because there is no support for the phenomena of "psychic mediums" or "channeling," and again, testimony means little in scientific inquiry. When we rely on the testimony of victims a consistent picture emerges. Total strangers knowing little about the abduction experience even describe the same alien medical tools and the same procedure process. This can't be conventionally explained away by hallucination. These testimonies in my opinion would hold up in the court of law. Shared delusions are a thing: Folie à deux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Codependency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria. However, even if it can't be explained by hallucinations, unexplained =/= explained by UFO's. Actually, they sort of already have. When abduction was still a new word law offices took an honest look at the victims. They treated the case as they would any other. They used the methods at their disposal to find who's lying, who's hoaxing and who's telling the truth. They instructed doctors to examine the victims and this is when high exposure to radiation and other medical anomalies were discovered backing the victims claims. These law offices concluded the victims were telling the truth and that there was no evidence of any kind of insanity. They don't have to be insane. They don't have to have ANY sort of neurological or psychological issues. They can TRULY believe something happened and come out clean on a test. Our question is whether what they believe actually happened or not. It was because these law offices, intrusted with determining the validity of claims above all others, concluded that these testimonies were true that higher governmental offices were involved. Did they say that the testimonies themselves were true (as in, they literally occurred), or that the person giving the testimony wasn't lying? None of the replies in this thread are shocking. Its the same rhetoric garbage being sputtered since then. Have anyone of you here taken an honest look at the phenomenon or do you just have knee-jerk reactions taught to you by culture? Personally I've taken an honest look, though not extensive. This isn't rhetoric garbage, it's necessary skepticism in the face of an odd claim about what goes on the world. I'd wager that "culture" doesn't really teach us to be skeptical of claims about UFO's. Meet any regular person, in the U.S. at least, and they'd probably tell you that they've seen weird things in the sky and that they probably attribute them to UFO's.

[grafey]

[B] For example: This one guy, upon realizing he's actually awake becomes hysterical and screams during his alien medical examination. The alien walks over to a computer scream and an electronic voice speaks "How can we ease your screaming?". This sounds like least fearprovoking part. Ickeishness provoces fear as automatic ridiculing system provoces belief for ickeish stuff. On the other hand situation above sounds like a alienishly serious language barrier and poor understanding on human psyche.

[juroara]

This sounds like least fearprovoking part. Ickeishness provoces fear as automatic ridiculing system provoces belief for ickeish stuff. On the other hand situation above sounds like a alienishly serious language barrier and poor understanding on human psyche. Lol, thats the point Im trying to make. The conspiracy subculture paints two extreme pictures. That either aliens are gonna beam us up and save us from the end of the world, or theyre going to crawl out of caves from the hollow earth and eat us. I think the point of this thread was lost. Look, weve the alien subculture is big, its messy. Its extreme. But 90% is based off nothing. Its complete fantasy to sell a scary book. What is the truth about this phenomenon? We need to look at the source. Weve got average people with traumatizing experiences and they can't even talk about it in public. I don't know when modern humans decided that listening to another human being wasn't worth their time, but that attitude needs to change. If we take the time to listen to them we can gain a better understanding of whats happening. If we dump all of the ufo-alien conspiracies as garbage and only look at first person testimony, the picture that emerges is really creepy. Its creepy because its a huge unknown. We know as much about the "alien agenda" as we did 50 years ago. I made this thread not to argue whether or not aliens are here - that's why my first post is so obnoxious. I want to move past that senseless debate because none of us here on some dream forum could ever prove that to another. I want to talk about WHAT IT MEANS. If aliens are zipping about and have been for the past century, why hasn't first contact happened? BTW, statistics are out. Most Americans believe there is an alien presence right now on earth. I'm in the majority! Thats like a first for me.

[Original Poster]

My problem with this juroara is that I can't believe in arbitrary human testimony. They might be lying, or simply crazy. And honestly, so much of this testimony contradicts other testimony that they can't all be right. For instance you said in the OP that channelers all tell us human like aliens are good and non-human like aliens are bad. But that's not true. Arcturians are described sort of like Grays but are considered a benevolent race. I'm not trying to defend channelers, but you seem to understand less about the phenomenon than I do based on that statement. I know you know more about aliens and shit than me, I'm making an argument about the nature of credibility. You claim physical abductions have taken place but what evidence do you have and where did you get it? You don't need to provide scientifically verifiable explanations, but you do need to provide a source of your information.

[juroara]

My problem with this juroara is that I can't believe in arbitrary human testimony. They might be lying, or simply crazy. And honestly, so much of this testimony contradicts other testimony that they can't all be right. For instance you said in the OP that channelers all tell us human like aliens are good and non-human like aliens are bad. But that's not true. Arcturians are described sort of like Grays but are considered a benevolent race. I'm not trying to defend channelers, but you seem to understand less about the phenomenon than I do based on that statement. I know you know more about aliens and shit than me, I'm making an argument about the nature of credibility. You're right, I simplified the channelers. Its because I really want to move away from the discussion of astral aliens. For several years now theres been this idea going around in new age that all abductions were astral. I understand these arguments, but it makes the "alien presence" less "real". I mean, if astral aliens abduct you and do a astral medical examination, so what? Its like a dream, you wake up its over. I want to bring back the discussion that at least some alien abductions are physical. You claim physical abductions have taken place but what evidence do you have and where did you get it? You don't need to provide scientifically verifiable explanations, but you do need to provide a source of your information. I'll start working on my list then

[Original Poster]

Unfortunately you cannot separate the two. In order to understand why aliens are here, we have to look at what they're doing here and that means looking at witness testimony and filtering out the fake testimony. Whether or not someone was traumatized by an abduction, that doesn't automatically mean I have to believe it happened. I need to find the truth, so I can't differentiate claims based upon the apparent level of emotional disturbance each person exhibits. Look at that prank call on Coast to Coast about how aliens were transdimensional beings. That guy sounded serious as fuck but called back later admitting he was bullshitting. You said it yourself, this is like a court case and the evidence must be weighed as objectively as possible if we are to understand the motive. I personally do believe aliens are probably here. But I don't know who's really contacted them and who hasn't. If you want to make a claim that your evidence is better than the 90% bullshit in UFO culture, you have to build your credibility with me. Otherwise I might as well talk about how the aliens are here to open a hotdog stand and we can argue all day. So far I can agree that they are probably neither "good" nor "evil." But only because those words don't exist in reality.

[juroara]

two places to start The Truth About Alien Implants In Human Bodies - UFO Encounters UFOTV: Scientific Study of Alien Implants - Full Length Feature - YouTube

[DrunkenArse]

I'm getting pretty good at bluegrass so if you guys find yourself being chased by aliens and need a getaway soundtrack, just hit me up. I'll be glad to help. I'm mostly working on flatpicking fiddle tunes but I'll try to get a few banjo tunes worked out (hopefully in time!) I'm working on this one now.

[juroara]

Im glad to know that close-mindedness is actually the minority of the population

[TheGritz]

I also realized something very funny. In all likely hood, if what Juroara is claiming about aliens is real, than we can conclude that they are at our plant for a scientific purpose. Juroara may be an alien attempting to understand our social reaction to the idea of extra-planetary beings visiting us. If this is true, Juroara please tell your alien superiors that Humans could seriously use some help with our problems m'kay?

[tommo]

[citation needed] K I just skimmed some of this What I am trying to illustrate is that currently we can only approach this global phenomenon as you would a crime investigation. The evidence needed for a court and the evidence needed for science are completely different. Testimony matters in court, in science human testimony means nothing. Testimony in court is NOT EVIDENCE. That would be fucking stupid. It has only ever been evidence when the court/jurors/judges etc. have some prejudicial idea about the defendant and therefore are not following the laws properly. A million people could have seen it happen, but you need actual evidence. And human testimony is not evidence because it is known to be biased and extremely incorrect and furthermore, relevant here EASILY MANIPULABLE. Very easily. None of the replies in this thread are shocking. Its the same rhetoric garbage being sputtered since then. Have anyone of you here taken an honest look at the phenomenon or do you just have knee-jerk reactions taught to you by culture? I have looked at all the evidence necessary to decide aliens have probably not come to Earth. I've watched a shit load of videos and read personal accounts, sometimes with 100's or 1000's of witnesses. I have also read the alternative explanations, which are ALMOST always more plausible.

[TheGritz]

[citation needed] K I just skimmed some of this Testimony in court is NOT EVIDENCE. That would be fucking stupid. It has only ever been evidence when the court/jurors/judges etc. have some prejudicial idea about the defendant and therefore are not following the laws properly. A million people could have seen it happen, but you need actual evidence. And human testimony is not evidence because it is known to be biased and extremely incorrect and furthermore, relevant here EASILY MANIPULABLE. Very easily. I have looked at all the evidence necessary to decide aliens have probably not come to Earth. I've watched a shit load of videos and read personal accounts, sometimes with 100's or 1000's of witnesses. I have also read the alternative explanations, which are ALMOST always more plausible. Why so defensive Tommo? It's almost as if you don't want us to think there are aliens...

[hermine_hesse]

Testimony in court is NOT EVIDENCE. That would be fucking stupid. It has only ever been evidence when the court/jurors/judges etc. have some prejudicial idea about the defendant and therefore are not following the laws properly. A million people could have seen it happen, but you need actual evidence. And human testimony is not evidence because it is known to be biased and extremely incorrect and furthermore, relevant here EASILY MANIPULABLE. I'm not saying I agree that we should treat alien abductions as a court case, or that testimonies prove anything in regard to this, but testimony is evidence, especially eye witness testimony. The degree to which the evidence is relevant depends upon the credibility of the witness. How do you think trials were conducted before modern forensics? Juroara, Although I don't necessarily agree with you, I am glad you brought up this topic. I have been pondering the UFO phenomenon much lately. (I actually had a very vivid dream about UFOs last night.) I think there is another possibility besides aliens being physically present or all abductees being delusion. Perhaps UFOs are more of a psychic phenomenon. Aliens are ancient archetypes in modern guise. Perhaps all sightings and abductions are thoughtforms. I would like to delve more into this topic. I would be interested to hear firsthand accounts, if you have them. Whether aliens are "actually here" or not, the widespread occurrences of this phenomena definitely say something about our collective psyche, and this is the part I find most interesting to explore.

[Thatperson]

I thought this thread was gonna be about mexicans lol.

[DrunkenArse]

Im glad to know that close-mindedness is actually the minority of the population Here, you of course know that you're equating close mindeness with "being unwilling to accept things without evidence"?

[TheGritz]

In all likely hood their is other intelligent life in our galaxy, and without a doubt it is somewhere else in our universe. However, according to Drake's equation (look it up if you don't know, a simple google search will suffice) the possible number of other intelligent species in out galaxy is so varied that we have no clue if any are even within a distance for communication, let alone that any other species of beings has stumbled upon Earth. The simple answer is that, according to current scientific knowledge, it's too early to say without credible evidence that Aliens have visited Earth. We can't know if any species are nearby, we can't know if they would even have any interest in us or reason to visit assuming their are other sentient beings nearby, and we can't know how they would visit us or what it would look like if they did. I'm not saying Aliens don't exist, I'm not saying they do. I'm not saying it's likely or unlikely, all I can say is that it MAY happen and that it ISN'T impossible. We just don't know HOW possible.

[Forsaken]

Juroara an alien? Hmmm... might believe that one. :p

[ZeraCook]

I don't know if there already is an Alien Presence, but I think that when they will or have made contact it will be so alien and foreign that we will not realise it is here or have been able to comprehend or imagine it beforehand. On the other hand I am a conspiracy nut on the low. For example meet my best friends lizard <-- Annunaki. if you don't know what that means look it up. tehe.