Thread: Was Sandy Hook a Hoax?

I saw this today and it sums it all up perfectly. It's only about 4 minutes long.

The Word - Truthinews - The Colbert Report - 2013-24-06 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

They were acting totally normal and all the parents showed emotions, some times sadness and some times they were remembering happy thoughts about their children and they weren't as sad in those moments, but pretty much all the interviews they were showing emotions and all those emotions are normal in the situation.

It is also normal from some conflicting reports to come out as a story is breaking but once the official report came out and it was clear what happened, it never changed and there was no conflicting or strange reports at all.

This is all what normal real life looks like.

The person adding comments to the video have no clue what they are saying. I doubt there was any screaming since no one was shot with the opening attack. According to the official timeline the shooter shot through a locked door. There wasn't anyone at the front door when he shot his way in, so who would of screamed? Obviously no one, the screaming would come later when he began shooting people.

There is a huge difference between the examples you gave of people being angry with the killers, and sandy hook. In those situations the killer was still alive, in this case the killer was dead. That sense of anger and wanting to make the criminal pay for what he did greatly decreases if the killer is dead. He has suffered his final fate and there is closure.

You don't suddenly stop being pissed at a killer the day after the murder just because he is dead. Jews who went through the Holocaust are mad at Hitler to this day. Also, Tupac's murder case was never solved. A lot points to Biggie Smalls, who was dead when Tupac's mother did the interview I saw. Tell me this isn't a commercial for gun control:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gViMvqm7wNU

Were these kids recently murdered, or are they running for office?

Do you know what a green screen is? It's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_key

When an object is past a certain point, the part that is past it will not show up in the video. You can very briefly check this video at 2:09 and 4:39 and see the hoax at work.



?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Pause this video about a tenth of a second after it gets to 1:28. After that, play through that point and watch what happens across the street.



Have you had a vision of Rod Serling yet?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Pause this video about a tenth of a second after it gets to 1:28. After that, play through that point and watch what happens across the street.

[YouTube Video, see above]

Have you had a vision of Rod Serling yet?

No offense or anything, but you really need to get more evidence than some obviously biased YouTube videos that present an apparent change in the distance between a photographer and someone being interviewed as 100% absolute proof that an interview was faked. If this was a huge conspiracy, I think that the conspirators would be a bit more careful to make sure that no-one caught them out.

Hmmm, just had a look at the other videos that "Tinfoilhatdood" has posted and they are pretty suspect, including claims that because the weather got cloudy after some planes flew over, these are secret government chem trails. The clincher: the weather forecast said "Sunny". Unrefutable evidence!

Originally Posted by GJames

No offense or anything, but you really need to get more evidence than some obviously biased YouTube videos that present an apparent change in the distance between a photographer and someone being interviewed as 100% absolute proof that an interview was faked.

I didn't make the video or post the description. Is that the only post of mine you have looked at? Do you honestly claim that I have posted nothing more than that video?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Pause this video about a tenth of a second after it gets to 1:28. After that, play through that point and watch what happens across the street.



Have you had a vision of Rod Serling yet?

That video shows an example of extension distortion and compression distortion, a common issue with camera lenses of different focal lengths. Yeah, I had to Google the terms but I saw this often back when I took photography. It's definitely not a sign that something is weird or faked, merely an illusion caused by the camera optics.

Here's some reading and examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspe..._(photography)
Exploring How Focal Length Affects Images
Perspective and Distortion
Using Telephoto Lenses


Many of these "theories of bizarre things" are posted by people who don't understand how cameras work or are deliberately trying to play on people's natural suspicions by forcing them to focus on things that 'appear' to be wrong, distorting facts and perspectives to further a cause or belief.

That explains one of the issues the video poster raised. The people suddenly appearing closer didn't grab my attention. What I think is really strange is what I said two posts ago.

Pause this video about a tenth of a second after it gets to 1:28. After that, play through that point and watch what happens across the street.

Maybe there is a logical explanation for it, but I don't know what it is. I might have overlooked something in one of your links that could explain it. Did you see my green screen post?

The reason I say I worry for the mental and emotional health of someone who would believe Sandy Hook is a hoax is as follows. There are plenty of ways to debunk the myths of government conspiracy, and that is obvious to see. What is not as clear, are the motivations behind those who claim these conspiracies to be real.

Fact is not on their side; knowledge is missing. So what motivates someone to claim this as real if they have no reasonable explanation?

These are simple diversions; the construction of an alternative reality, replacing the unbearable truth. What is easier, remove and dissociate yourself from truth through elaborate illogical smoke screens, or face the reality that someone can walk into any school in any town to kill anybody's children? Which outcome causes more fear, and which cause of the event demands more control? If the event demands more control, its easier to swallow because then there is something clear to blame. What can we blame when teenagers walk into their own school and blow away their classmates?

Whats the cause and effect when emotion overpowers every other mental faculty. Those other mental pieces begin following the emotion.

This paranoia will probably always exist and its a good reminder to keep level headed. Otherwise you may end up turning dead bodies into talking points.

Also...Lets look at the real genocides in the world. The unrest in Africa precipitated by colonialism, endless wars against invisible "terrorist" enemies, the decimation of natural resources and essential creatures of the environment, the Native population of the Americas, the mass slaughters of people all over the world by inflated despots and tyrants. Address the real problems of humanity and society, instead of wasting time creating elaborate smoke screens.

That's an interesting blanket generalization. Are you familiar with any of the historically documented conspiracies of any of the governments that have ever existed? Have you ever heard of Watergate? Have you ever heard of the Nazis? Iran Contra? Gulf of Tonkin? Bay of Pigs? IRS political targeting? NSA data mining? You might have some reading to do.

http://conspiraciesthatweretrue.blog...cies-from.html

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

There are plenty of ways to debunk the myths of government conspiracy, and that is obvious to see.

You made a boast. Now prove its truth. If you can't do that, then you are just making worthless noise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

The reason I say I worry for the mental and emotional health of someone who would believe Sandy Hook is a hoax is as follows. There are plenty of ways to debunk the myths of government conspiracy, and that is obvious to see. What is not as clear, are the motivations behind those who claim these conspiracies to be real.

Fact is not on their side; knowledge is missing. So what motivates someone to claim this as real if they have no reasonable explanation?

These are simple diversions; the construction of an alternative reality, replacing the unbearable truth. What is easier, remove and dissociate yourself from truth through elaborate illogical smoke screens, or face the reality that someone can walk into any school in any town to kill anybody's children? Which outcome causes more fear, and which cause of the event demands more control? If the event demands more control, its easier to swallow because then there is something clear to blame. What can we blame when teenagers walk into their own school and blow away their classmates?

Whats the cause and effect when emotion overpowers every other mental faculty. Those other mental pieces begin following the emotion.

This paranoia will probably always exist and its a good reminder to keep level headed. Otherwise you may end up turning dead bodies into talking points.

Also...Lets look at the real genocides in the world. The unrest in Africa precipitated by colonialism, endless wars against invisible "terrorist" enemies, the decimation of natural resources and essential creatures of the environment, the Native population of the Americas, the mass slaughters of people all over the world by inflated despots and tyrants. Address the real problems of humanity and society, instead of wasting time creating elaborate smoke screens.

The real issue with conspiratards is that they often WANT their hoax theories to be true. It fits their worldview that there is a super secret group of powerful men running the world committing atrocities and subsequently covering them up. Of course that makes no sense, because if such a group were powerful enough to pull off said atrocities with ease, they're awful as covering themselves up. So awful that bored teenagers can make YouTube videos detailing their discovery of the alleged slip-ups.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

The real issue with conspiratards is that they often WANT their hoax theories to be true. It fits their worldview that there is a super secret group of powerful men running the world committing atrocities and subsequently covering them up. Of course that makes no sense, because if such a group were powerful enough to pull off said atrocities with ease, they're awful as covering themselves up. So awful that bored teenagers can make YouTube videos detailing their discovery of the alleged slip-ups.

I could just as easily say that you are in complete denial and being intellectually dishonest, which I think you are. Your characterization of conspiracy theorists involves the hasty generalization fallacy. I have never once said I believe in the shadow government/Illuminati (except years ago when I was playing games with Mystic7) or world control by elites. I don't rule it out, but what I know is that the U.S. government has gotten way too powerful and that big government is inherently corrupt. It is very capable of pulling large scale conspiracies for corrupt purposes. Guess what else. It has happened... a lot! Since you claim to be an anarchist, I am surprised at your denial of how insanely corrupt government can be. You have a bizarre trust of government and media for somebody who says he thinks government is so rotten that we shouldn't even have one. I don't expect you to be convinced that there was a Sandy Hook conspiracy, but you have not expressed even the slightest hint at surprise over any of the stuff I have posted that is at least sort of weird. You haven't suggested that it is even possible that the government might have at least coached a few family members of victims into speaking for gun control since the Second Amendment is obviously under major attack by the Obama Administration, which I am sure you would admit.

I posted this for Chimpertainment earlier, and I'm not sure if you saw it. Look at this list of conspiracies and tell me in seriousness that none of them ever actually happened. Will you do that?

CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE: List of Proven Conspiracies - from Wikipedia

Now, if you do admit that at least one of those really did happen, does that make you a "conspiratard" who wants it to be true and who believes in the Illuminati? Tell me.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I could just as easily say that you are in complete denial and being intellectually dishonest, which I think you are. Your characterization of conspiracy theorists involves the hasty generalization fallacy. I have never once said I believe in the shadow government/Illuminati (except years ago when I was playing games with Mystic7) or world control by elites. I don't rule it out, but what I know is that the U.S. government has gotten way too powerful and that big government is inherently corrupt. It is very capable of pulling large scale conspiracies for corrupt purposes. Guess what else. It has happened... a lot! Since you claim to be an anarchist, I am surprised at your denial of how insanely corrupt government can be. You have a bizarre trust of government and media for somebody who says he thinks government is so rotten that we shouldn't even have one. I don't expect you to be convinced that there was a Sandy Hook conspiracy, but you have not expressed even the slightest hint at surprise over any of the stuff I have posted that is at least sort of weird. You haven't suggested that it is even possible that the government might have at least coached a few family members of victims into speaking for gun control since the Second Amendment is obviously under major attack by the Obama Administration, which I am sure you would admit.

I posted this for Chimpertainment earlier, and I'm not sure if you saw it. Look at this list of conspiracies and tell me in seriousness that none of them ever actually happened. Will you do that?

CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE: List of Proven Conspiracies - from Wikipedia

Now, if you do admit that at least one of those really did happen, does that make you a "conspiratard" who wants it to be true and who believes in the Illuminati? Tell me.

You missed this post earlier in the thread:

I'd like to point out the difference between "conspiracy" and "conspiracy theory." Conspiracies happen in the real world, and often we find out about them. No one can deny that.

Conspiracy theories, on the other hand, never come to fruition and are never rigorously verified. What few factoids are involved, they are diluted by sloppy logic, confirmation bias, poor research, and paranoia. Conspiracy theories are homeopathic.

Since you claim to be an anarchist, I am surprised at your denial of how insanely corrupt government can be. You have a bizarre trust of government and media for somebody who says he thinks government is so rotten that we shouldn't even have one. I don't expect you to be convinced that there was a Sandy Hook conspiracy, but you have not expressed even the slightest hint at surprise over any of the stuff I have posted that is at least sort of weird.

Because they all have reasonable explanations that don't require assuming they were coached, or that the whole thing was faked to push an agenda. Has it been used to push an agenda? Undoubtedly. But was it faked? No. It happened. Children and faculty died because of a deranged young man. Often times I think conspiracy theorists just don't want to recognize that there are fucked up people out there doing fucked up things by their own will. So they invent esoteric cabals to explain away their frustrations.

There is a massive difference between maintaining a certain level of distrust for the government and thinking they're behind every tragic event. Libertarians often get a bad rap for either associating with or actually being conspiracy theorists. A good percentage of the rabid Ron Paul followers are also disciples of Jesse Ventura and Alex Jones. I'm not going to be one of them. I'm introducing skepticism into these matters to get to the truth. If it leads me to think that the government wasn't actually behind it, so what? Does that mean I have a bizarre trust of government and the media? Not in the slightest.

I shouldn't have snapped at you earlier Chimpertainment, since obviously your comment wasn't directed at me at all. I got too caught up in the argument. I completely agree with what you just said - people like Alex Jones have definite issues. Obviously it wasn't a 'hoax' in the way the video posters mean, as in no children were even killed. Personally I'm just stumped at why all the parents and family members are like pod people. Yes they seem sad - some of them (those who aren't smiling through their interviews), but sad is not the way I'd expect a bereaved parent or brother or sister to act over the recent death. I'd expect inconsolable - at least from some of them.

Wow, what is with those parents. Nervous smiles my ass. Have you all forgotten Katrina? There you can see real human grieving parents. I'm not sure what I just saw in those videos.

And what is with the firehouse walk-a-loop?

Originally Posted by Alric

There is a huge difference between the examples you gave of people being angry with the killers, and sandy hook. In those situations the killer was still alive, in this case the killer was dead. That sense of anger and wanting to make the criminal pay for what he did greatly decreases if the killer is dead. He has suffered his final fate and there is closure.

You assume the parents rage is solely directed at the murderer. But most people are not hateful or vengeful, most people don't make it their personal vendetta to KILL a murderer. There for, the murderers death would bring no sense of closure. Its not like that will bring back the deceased child. For most parents, real closure takes years, regardless of the murderers fate.

If you watch a conspiracy video with the aim to prove that those who make it or question it or simply idiots - then youre being biased. Don't make the need to prove or disprove a conspiracy about you. This has nothing to do with whatever belief you do or don't have about the world.

Unless you're ready to question everything then you aren't ready to question at all.

The government is often corrupt, and they do a lot of stupid things at times. I wouldn't really be surprised by anything they did. That said all the evidence seems to support the official story in the incident of the sandy hook shooting, and the government was not involved. Honestly I don't think any of the stuff you posted even remotely hints at anything unusual happening. Most of it you claim is odd behavior but I honestly find it all normal and I have seen it before, so I don't count that as evidence of anything nor do I find it at all suspicious.

Do false news reports, contradictory accounts, impossible document information, impossible web page dates, and complete absences of information and evidence count as "odd behavior?"

There is only a few contradictory accounts and reports and they are from people gossiping, and from chaotic situations often being chaotic at the start. After a little time went by everyone was on the same page as all the facts came out. It is normal for there to be some chaos though. As explained several times the web dates are easily explains.

The truth is usually somewhere between the extremes - in this case the extremes of totally believing conspiracy theorist videos or totally believing the mass media official story.

And as for making dead bodies into talking points, that was done immediately by media and politicians. This is another incident that was instantly politicized.

It seems to me that conspiracy theorists are the statists. Through their theories, they tacitly presume that a government that did everything openly and democratically would be A-OK. But philosophical libertarians understand (yes, understand) that the most evil things that governments do are out in the open: taxation, war, fiat currency, fiat laws, etc. Presumably, conspiracy theorists would have no problem with any of these things.

Furthermore, they seem to be implying a level of competence that libertarians don't believe the government has. The government is a giant, bumbling collection of idiots, not a secret cabal of master spies. The scary truth that conspiracy theorists can't bear to face: The president really is in charge of the government. People really do just go along with him and his lackeys. It's that simple, and that scary.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

You missed this post earlier in the thread:

I'd like to point out the difference between "conspiracy" and "conspiracy theory." Conspiracies happen in the real world, and often we find out about them. No one can deny that.

Conspiracy theories, on the other hand, never come to fruition and are never rigorously verified. What few factoids are involved, they are diluted by sloppy logic, confirmation bias, poor research, and paranoia. Conspiracy theories are homeopathic.

So you admit that government conspiracies have existed. Well, when they did and, in some cases, after they did, some people believed in their existence while the masses didn't. The people who had those beliefs then were conspiracy theorists, and they were correct. Right?

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Because they all have reasonable explanations that don't require assuming they were coached, or that the whole thing was faked to push an agenda. Has it been used to push an agenda? Undoubtedly. But was it faked? No. It happened. Children and faculty died because of a deranged young man. Often times I think conspiracy theorists just don't want to recognize that there are fucked up people out there doing fucked up things by their own will. So they invent esoteric cabals to explain away their frustrations.

Perhaps so, but there are many issues that have not been resolved. I have beaten those dead horses a lot in this thread. Everything you have said when you addressed those issues directly has been to the effect of, "Well, this possible scenario I thought of might have been the case. This other thing might possibly have happend." You need to take a few steps back from it and think about the big picture that has been formed. It is outrageously far fetched. Far fetched is not the same as impossible, but it's fucking crazy. Would you at least acknowledge that? I don't think the hoax claim has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but I do think it has been proven by a preponderance of the evidence. That means it has a greater than 50% chance of being true. And I am absolutely baffled by people who won't admit that there is something at least a little weird about the official story.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

There is a massive difference between maintaining a certain level of distrust for the government and thinking they're behind every tragic event. Libertarians often get a bad rap for either associating with or actually being conspiracy theorists. A good percentage of the rabid Ron Paul followers are also disciples of Jesse Ventura and Alex Jones. I'm not going to be one of them. I'm introducing skepticism into these matters to get to the truth. If it leads me to think that the government wasn't actually behind it, so what? Does that mean I have a bizarre trust of government and the media? Not in the slightest.

I think you have been coming here long enough to know that I don't think the government has been behind every tragic event. Skepticism is great, but yours goes only in one direction, and it's pro-government, surprisingly. For example (one among many), you accept the claim that Lanza was the Sandy Hook shooter like gospel, but you don't acknowledge the mysteriousness surrounding that claim. The mainstream media says it, you believe it, and that's the end of it. Don't you think it's maybe just a tiny bit bizarre that the school had a very high tech security system with cameras, bullet proof glass, and the need to ring a doorbell to get into the building, yet Lanza got into the school while class was in session and no picture of him at the school has ever been shown to the public or even said to exist by officials? There are no bullet holes in the BULLET PROOF glass. The media reported that he shot a window out, but other media reported that police said there was no broken glass. People in the town said he was completely off the radar for the past three years. That all together is fucked up. Do you see where I am coming from on that? At least I have admitted that your idea of what happened is plausible but not probable.

As for Alex Jones, he is a great entertainer who does make a lot of good points, and I love that he is bringing so much attention to how fucked up things have gotten, but he is a sensationalist who exaggerates. He said on Howard Stern that the build up of Prozac in the ocean is causing shrimp to commit suicide and that the placing of estrogen releasing chemicals in the plastic containers of certain juices turns kids gay and gets in the waters and results in bisexual fish. I am nowhere near that page. However, our government has gotten way too big, intrusive, and untrustworthy. I am skeptical about everything they say. Are you?

Originally Posted by cmind

It seems to me that conspiracy theorists are the statists. Through their theories, they tacitly presume that a government that did everything openly and democratically would be A-OK. But philosophical libertarians understand (yes, understand) that the most evil things that governments do are out in the open: taxation, war, fiat currency, fiat laws, etc. Presumably, conspiracy theorists would have no problem with any of these things.

Government is more corrupt than incompetent, but they are horribly incompetent at doing their jobs while maintaining their corruption. Do you know what I mean? They crave power and control, and in having that, they can't keep the economy stable because extreme government control cannot achieve a stable economy. It harms it majorly. They can't control drugs without having a police state, which we don't quite have yet although many of the chess pieces have been positioned. Etc. It doesn't mean nobody in the government is highly intelligent. Tons of geniuses are in the government. They can pay off some people and pull off a media hoax. It's not rocket science, though that is something our government is majorly bad ass at. It's just a matter of being really corrupt and dishonest.

I live in a city where the local government is so corrupt that it might hold the national record for city corruption, though nearby New Orleans is pretty major competition. Our new mayor-elect, who will be inaugurated on Monday, is a racial separatist who hates white people and wants to move all of the black people into their own nation called The Republik of New Africa. One of our recent mayors owned the local NBC affiliate and was the head of the Mississippi Bureau of Narcotics (MBN). He became mayor by getting on the news on a regular basis (because he owned WLBT) and talking in a very convincing way about his attitude about being really tough on crime. As it turned out, he was also a drug kingpin. He became head of the MBN so he could take down his competition. He was having them arrested left and right. He handled one of his rivals by sending cops to demolish the rival's house. It is things like that which have made me very mistrusting of government.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Government is more corrupt than incompetent, but they are horribly incompetent at doing their jobs while maintaining their corruption. Do you know what I mean?

I'm not sure what you mean by "corrupt". This is a word that has been so abused over the years that it has lost an objective meaning. Let me just ask you a question: is it possible for a hypothetical government to be "non-corrupt", and would you be happy to give 40% of your income to them?