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    Thread: I don't understand revenge

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      I don't understand revenge

      Why do people like revenge so much? As if getting back on someone is going to reverse the things he did to you? The only reason you should hurt someone back is to prevent it from happening. That's the whole point of punishment right? Punishing someone so he doesn't do it again. But just raging, being blinded by emotions and just hurting someone back because you're mad at him? That is just irrational.

      Now don't get me wrong, I get mad too. A girl I know has an alcoholic father who gets out of control when drunk and I seriously doubt I can keep myself from breaking his bones, making him caugh up blood if he did anything in front of me. But that is a surge of emotions. You have very little control over that, but it is temporary and any rational person will get his sanity back within seconds/minutes/hours depending on the intensity.

      What do you think? Is there any reason besides blind rage and selfishness behind revenge?
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      Revenge can give someone the will and bravery to seek out and deal with a dangerous villin. The true tragedy of mankind is that often revenge is saught against a group or ethnicity instead of the guilty individual.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



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      People have always felt justified in their cruelties. There is always a reason that their victims deserved it in their minds and this way of thinking is still very much alive. The truth is it is simply bloodlust. Any justification for it is just an excuse. Civilized people do not look for excuses to commit acts of bloodlust and cruelty because they realize that bringing suffering to the world for no other reason than to make yourself feel better is evil, no matter what horrible things the other person did. We conflate punishment with justice because we have a warped idea that adding more negativity to a negative situation somehow evens things out. I do understand the usefulness of punishment as a deterrence, but I also understand very clearly that deterrence is not often the objective people have in mind when calling for "justice." We like to make "bad guys" suffer because it makes us feel good but it's still sadism even if you think the other guy had it coming.
      Last edited by Onion; 10-16-2014 at 05:45 AM.
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      It's in our DNA. It evolved because revenge sends out the message that people need to not fuck with the person who got revenge. All of us are capable of wanting revenge for terrible acts done to us. I think justice partly involves revenge, and getting justice helps to bring closure to a bad situation involving having been wronged.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking like this. Violence is only justified if it is used as a deterrent.

      Every time I get lost in thought, thinking about ethics, human psychology, what is good and bad, whether good and bad is relevant or not. If it is, to what extent, to what extent is selfishness necessary? When does selfishness become counterproductive and make you unhappy? I should spend some more thought on this, but right now, I only get more confused and more grim the more I think about it. The only thing I know is that understanding what affects what and how much, that every situation is unique is very important.

      I also know that no matter how rational you are, emotions are still the most powerful thing that affects human behaviour. So being rational means being emotional too, because we are all human and we can only be rational to a certain point. It almost sounds like a paradox. I'm glad this website exists, it's full of unique and interesting and open-minded people, active on the forums and willing to share ideas. Thanks y'all!
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      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Ginsan, what is the worst thing anybody has ever done to you?
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      I don't know man, life has been pretty soft for me. I did get mad at someone last winter, a scumbag got drunk and made his daughter (who I fell in love with) cry. Sometimes my blood boils by thinking about it, I'm not planning on taking revenge though. Why do you ask? And what is the worst thing someone has done to YOU?

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      I don't understand revenge
      life has been pretty soft for me
      Here you have your answer. It's easy to be righteous when you're innocent.
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      Be free from passion, unmoved by joy or grief,
      and submit without complaint to unavoidable necessity.
      That is the way of the Stoics.



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      Inevitably, they destroy themselves." ~Sax (Kingdom Hearts II.5)

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      Quote Originally Posted by Aristaeus View Post
      Here you have your answer. It's easy to be righteous when you're innocent.
      I already had an idea, the comments in this thread just made me sure of it. And your answer is not the right one, I don't understand revenge because I didn't have anything exceptionally bad happen to me? That's bullshit. Perhaps I slightly misformulated the title, it should have been "I don't understand why people give in to hate and take revenge"

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      Quote Originally Posted by Ginsan View Post
      I already had an idea, the comments in this thread just made me sure of it. And your answer is not the right one, I don't understand revenge because I didn't have anything exceptionally bad happen to me? That's bullshit. Perhaps I slightly misformulated the title, it should have been "I don't understand why people give in to hate and take revenge"
      Until you yourself know true hatred, you won't understand. There may come a day when you will hate someone enough to truly want them dead. If/when that happens, I'm curious to see whether or not your convictions will be as noble as they are now.
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      Be free from passion, unmoved by joy or grief,
      and submit without complaint to unavoidable necessity.
      That is the way of the Stoics.



      "Do you know what happens to those who lose their true purpose?
      Inevitably, they destroy themselves." ~Sax (Kingdom Hearts II.5)

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      Quote Originally Posted by Ginsan View Post
      I don't know man, life has been pretty soft for me. I did get mad at someone last winter, a scumbag got drunk and made his daughter (who I fell in love with) cry. Sometimes my blood boils by thinking about it, I'm not planning on taking revenge though. Why do you ask? And what is the worst thing someone has done to YOU?
      As Aristaeus said, your lack of having anything majorly wrong done to you is why you don't understand revenge. If you or someone you love is ever physically attacked for no good reason or something on that level happens, you will understand revenge because you will want it so bad it will drive you up the wall. My cousin got shot in the arm and hip for talking to his ex-girlfriend, my brother has been help up at gun point twice, my sister got her ribs broken for smarting off to a woman who was being a total bitch, and I have been physically attacked over nothing multiple times. When that stuff happens to you, you don't just sort of want revenge. You crave it. Nobody is above it, though some people have a stronger will to say they are above revenge after an attack and pretend like they don't want it and some people are scared to say they want it because of fear of further attacks. The desire is still there. The will for revenge is an instinct. We all have the potential for it.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Revenge is rational, that's why it evolved in the first place. You can't let your attacker (or groups of attackers) just walk free. That makes it more likely that they will attack again in the future. Now, when this gets extended to people who are not involved, that's a glitch. But it's an understandable extension of the existing (and correct) instinct for self-preservation.

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      Right now I'm thinking "I'm not like that, I will never do that". But that is what everybody says, until something happens. Nothing I say has any meaning, it's like an infant telling a company boss how to run his business better. I feel rage too, I punch walls just because I can't win in a videogame. But I think I'll keep my sanity and prevent myself from making the situation more dangerous than it is when something really happens.

      I've been thinking about this because of a pretty girl's alcoholic father, and if I'm serious about her there is a big chance that one day I will have to deal with this guy, he is known throughout the village as a violent, irresponsible and reckless man, even more so when drunk and he is drunk every single day, he misses maybe one day every few weeks. But I don't know how far he will go on his own daughter, even if he is drunk. Thinking about worst case scenarios scares me and I don't know what I will or should do.

      Quote Originally Posted by cmind View Post
      Revenge is rational, that's why it evolved in the first place. You can't let your attacker (or groups of attackers) just walk free. That makes it more likely that they will attack again in the future. Now, when this gets extended to people who are not involved, that's a glitch. But it's an understandable extension of the existing (and correct) instinct for self-preservation.
      There are a lot of situations in which it is absolutely stupid. Imagine you are at a disco or bar with your girlfriend or anyone weaker than you who you should protect. Some dude grabs your girl's ass. What do you do? Let him get away with it? He grabbed your woman's ass! It's unacceptable! But what if he is a skilled fighter, carrying a weapon, or has 5-10 aggressive friends willing to back him up? You might end up injured badly or even dead, maybe lose some fingers, the same can happen to your girl or whoever is with you.

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      The problem I have with revenge is that all it does is prolong conflict.

      Just as the original act of perceived injustice fanned your flames, so will your act of revenge fan the flames of another.

      Seeking resolution makes sense of course, but I am not convinced that revenge actually serves this purpose in the long run. Revenge is the desire to inflict the same damage onto someone that you have been dealt. An eye for an eye and soon enough the whole world is blind.

      Where is the justice in that? Where is the resolution?

      To me, revenge is like child logic. "You're so mean, it's so wrong! Imma be meaner and that will teach you!"
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      Back in the days, I used to feel that I wanted to punish anyone who did any "wrong doing" to me or others. At least ten times as hard back to them. Luckily I took those emotions of revenge to the gym istead of acting out all those crazy ideas of revenge that my mind came up with. And today I can really feel that Im done with those feelings of revenge after dealing with that. I now know that revenge for sure are one of the most stupied things to engage in. Revenge could of course be hard/impossible to understand If you never felt like that before though.
      Last edited by DreamyBear; 10-17-2014 at 09:44 PM.
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      I train hard at the gym 3 times a week, heavy strength training followed by light cardio. It extremely effective in taking out the daily grind, I'm not reborn after every workout but it definitely gives me new life energy, it keeps me fresh, even boredom feels less boring. I don't know if the gym will be as effective for heavy feelings of revenge. The best thing is to be smart, try to prevent something from happening and hope you'll remain smart when it does go bad.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ginsan View Post
      There are a lot of situations in which it is absolutely stupid. Imagine you are at a disco or bar with your girlfriend or anyone weaker than you who you should protect. Some dude grabs your girl's ass. What do you do? Let him get away with it? He grabbed your woman's ass! It's unacceptable! But what if he is a skilled fighter, carrying a weapon, or has 5-10 aggressive friends willing to back him up? You might end up injured badly or even dead, maybe lose some fingers, the same can happen to your girl or whoever is with you.
      I've never seen a sober person seek revenge for someone touching their girlfriend. Drunk, maybe. But that's not revenge, that's just being drunk.
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      Revenge could be as little as punching him, pushing him, or even warning him and telling him to back off. The tiniest thing can cause trouble against the wrong person.

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      I don't know if the gym will be as effective for heavy feelings of revenge.
      No, the gym wont solve the urge for revenge If you have that in you, that I can assure you.
      You are not your thoughts...

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      Most strong feelings can never be solved, only diluted enough so it is weak enough to be controlled.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Ginsan View Post
      Revenge could be as little as punching him, pushing him, or even warning him and telling him to back off. The tiniest thing can cause trouble against the wrong person.
      What you're describing is not revenge. We're clearly thinking of two different things.
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      Quote Originally Posted by cmind View Post
      I've never seen a sober person seek revenge for someone touching their girlfriend. Drunk, maybe. But that's not revenge, that's just being drunk.
      Telling them to back off is trying to prevent someone abusing your girl. Punching them is not revenge, as you said that is just being drunk.

      I think if you were strong/dangerous enough to get away with then the only reasonable revenge would be to grab his ass in front of his friends. If he walked away after that, then so be it. If he feels being groped is so horrible to warrent violence then he deserves what will happen next.

      NO! That is not the best way. That is the only way I can attach revenge to the story though.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



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      i feel a lot more freer when i'm able to forgive. like a huge weight has been lifted off me. but i can also understand the desire for revenge. in most situations i feel its just petty and childish but in some situations i think revenge is necessary.

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      forgiving makes you look like a bigger man.
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