Thread: Understanding homophobia.

Hmmm.... I do agree with all you say. I have just been thinking very hard about this concept of caring/not caring about other people's lifestyles. (I only made it about homosexuality because I started thinking about this after hearing making comments about that topic). Maybe I am making the mistake of thinking the word caring has only one meaning. I definitely agree with you with the fact that I don't care what people do in their bedchambers, in the sense, that it is not my business and I don't ever ask these questions to people or even make suppositions in my head. I do find it impolite. So much so that I don't use the word homosexual anymore. I use the word homoromantic which refers to people who have relationships of romantic nature. (I find saying homosexual impolite because you directly make a comment about someone's sexlife.)

So, yes, this "I don't care statement" has to be okay... But, it seems incomplete as an attitude. (and I am especially talking about people you know and are close to you).

(And on an unrelated note to sexuality but still about this caring dilemma), let's say your partner is a smoker and you are against that lifestyle but you still love them. you can say you don't care. You have this view, that smoking is wrong and someone you love is a smoker. You obviously can't do much about it. I don't know where I am going with this. But just saying "I don't care!" seems like an incomplete attitude to me. And smoking is physically harmful. When talking about incest between to consenting adults that you personally know and care about, it's no longer the same, because even if you are personally against that, the behavior is not harmful but instead, good. So how do you reconcile "being personally against something" and caring/loving someone? Especially when the goal is not to convince them to stop what they are doing! For example, back to the homosexual topic. Assuming homosexuality is equally good to heterosexuality, then do homophobes have the responsibility to remove the repulsion that they feel inside them? Or do they have to just keep feeling the way they do? See, the problem I have with this is it seems hypocrite to me to continue believing something is repulsive and somehow act out like it's great in daylight.

The reason I say this is because in high school, I was in a social justice club and I have seen students speaking up against discrimination, saying that homosexuals were great people and yatti yatta in front of the public. But then, when they talk among themselves, they obviously are repulsed by it, the way they speak. That's what bugs me. How can people act like they are for it and then harbor feelings of repulsion inside and among themselves? If something is not wrong, why are we repulsed? (Homoromanticism is not something that repulses me personally but other things do such as incest. This conversation is more about how we should feel about lifestyles that are different then ours, whatever they may be. I'm just using homosexuality as an example.)

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

Assuming homosexuality is equally good to heterosexuality, then do homophobes have the responsibility to remove the repulsion that they feel inside them? Or do they have to just keep feeling the way they do? See, the problem I have with this is it seems hypocrite to me to continue believing something is repulsive and somehow act out like it's great in daylight.

You raise good points, I definitely see where you are coming from. I feel like on my part, it's more a lack of good word choice than it is what you think. And again, that's my fault because the words I used to describe how I feel toward the situation. At the same time though, how can you be upset with somebody who is repulsed by the idea of homosexual acts and doesn't want to see them, as long as they are willing to recognize that they are wrong for feeling that way about others?

You see, as long as they aren't having sex in public--which is illegal anyway--there isn't an issue to begin with. I don't like thinking or watching about two males having sex. I realize this is a double standard, but because I find women attractive, as long as they are the right two women, the idea of it isn't all that disgusting to me. It's how I feel and I can't easily change that. What I can change is how I decide to treat others based off of how I feel. As far as anyone is concerned by my actions or even most of my words, I appear to be totally fine with it. Up until I say I find it unpleasant to watch or think about to the point it makes me feel a mild bit of disgust, nobody knows the difference. If you want to argue I shouldn't mention how it makes me feel that way, that's one argument, yeah. But if I treat others with the respect I think they deserve as human beings despite what ways I feel about homosexuality as a personal choice for myself (because how I feel about it should only affect me, since heterosexuality is a personal choice I have made), why is there an issue? Can people not be happy with having the rights to be happy themselves, do I really need to have the way I see the world changed because of how they see the world? I feel like that in itself is an ulterior motive for a lot of gay rights activists and personally I feel like it's an attempt at mind control or something. You've got what you want, which is my support for your personal happiness. Why do you need anything more than that?

If it's my approval you're after, technically you have that too. I wouldn't say it is okay for gays to have sex or get married if I didn't approve of it... for people other than me. The reason I don't approve of it myself is simply because that's just not what I'm into, man. I shouldn't be forced to be bisexual or something because it makes somebody feel better, which is often what I feel like people are trying to get to happen sometimes. I know this isn't really the case (hopefully), but the fact that my support for you isn't good enough is very irking. I can admit when a male is attractive. If Ryan Gosling found me super drunk at a bar and went in for a kiss, I don't know that I wouldn't kiss that mother fucker. But, I do know that I wouldn't have sex with him or touch his penis or let him touch mine, because I don't want that to happen. My mind doesn't want that to happen. I am very open about sexuality and see it more like a continuum than something with categories, there isn't just gay, bisexual, and straight. Things are more complicated than that. But, the point where I draw the line is when penises other than my own start flopping out. Any act at that point is sexual harassment, assault, or flat out rape. I don't want to be raped as much as the next person, surely you can understand that right? The only thing I want out of a sexual life is a woman, plain and simple, and there is nothing wrong with that. Just like if a gay person that is male wants a male in his life, and a woman wants a woman in hers, or in the case of bisexuality someone chooses to have both.

edit:

Originally Posted by Alric

A lot of people who are homophobic are actually gay them self, or perhaps bisexual with some homosexual preferences, or they are in very strict groups who hate homosexuals. In those cases, they act homophobic to try to fit in with the 'normal' group because subconsciously they fear of being outcasted. Even if they are not gay they might feel pressure to conform with the group's hate, otherwise might be labeled gay or a gay supporter. Then it is even worse if you fear that label might be real.

I agree. I think it's also a good portion of people who may be bisexual or even straight as well. The thing is, especially with males or people who are overzealous religiously, wondering if you are gay is a frightening thought. From a male perspective, you wonder that if you can even identify yourself as male (because obviously being male means banging a lot of chicks, right?), and your whole life you have identified yourself as male. Obviously liking other men doesn't make you any less of a man, and I personally find it more useful to identify as a human rather than male, female, black, white, etc. The division of yourself and others by categorization has its uses, but when it starts leading you to hate others it ceases to be useful in any context other than using it to communicate with others. When I first recognized that I could get pretty emotionally close to other men and that I even found some attractive in a simply recognition sort of sense, I actually wondered if I was bisexual. But when I thought about it, I just don't want to have someone in my butt and I don't want to be in another guy's myself. This is what defines me as being straight, my choice not to actually take part in homosexuality. Not because I am scared to, but because the idea makes me has the power to kill any boner I could've possibly had. I can't change that and don't desire to change it. Really homophobia comes from literally being afraid of what homosexuality might say about yourself. If this frightens you, then you are also worried about the people in your family and your neighbors. If you close your mind to it altogether, then you start to hate based out of fear (which is arguably the root of nearly all hatred: fear).

I am quite disappointed at the moment. I wrote a complete and long answer to what everyone had said, and then, I was signed out of my account as I was submitting (as I always am on Dreamviews) and I lost my whole comment. I need to remember to always copy before I submit! I'm no longer in the mood so I will try it another day...