Accessing the subconscious through imaginary dialogues?

**Darkmatters** · 08-13-2011 04:04 AM

I used to do something I called Imaginal Dialogues... didn't want to just call them imaginary because that word carries negative connotations (it's not 'real', it's just fantasy, daydreaming etc). Basically I'd just start thinking about some issue that was somehow important to me and I'd imagine a conversation involving a few people I think of as intelligent or who might have a meaningful impact on my thinking about the subject. I think it grew originally from very frustrating inner dialogues I used to have hearing my mom's voice and my friend's voice constantly arguing with my every idea, only later I learned to bring in more positive people who might have a higher opinion of the subjects I wanted to think about.

It works best if they're either people you know IRL and respect their opinion, or even with characters you know well from TV or movies or something. It seems to be easier if you know their personality and how they'd tend to react to things... ie I haven't had as much luck doing this with literary characters or people I've only read about such as Sherlock Holmes or Freud or Jung. Though I suspect it might work well with characters like that if you've read enough about them that you really feel like you know them, and probably even better if you've seen movies about them and can sort of "hear their voice" clearly in your head.

I think this is a good way to actually access different parts of your mind than what you would when thinking only inside your own customary persona. You sort of let yourself 'play the parts' of the other people and improv what they would say, and so you can come up with things very unlike your own normal reactions.

I haven't actually thought about this for a few years, but last night I was reading CG Jung's Memories Dreams Reflections (basically his life told through his own memories dreams and fantasies), and discovered he used to fantasize about meetings with characters and just let the fantasy take shape almost randomly. He did this primarily I think when pondering the importance of a dream of his or thinking about what direction his life or work needs to take next. It sounds a lot like he was almost trying to incubate lucid dreams, but without falling asleep.. he seems to have let his mind drop into a state near hypnagogic imagery and then maintained wakefulness right at the level. Then he'd suddenly see characters form before him... sometimes archetypal characters similar to mythological characters. In repeated 'fantasies' as he called them, the same character or group of characters would appear and speak to him, telling him cryptic things much like dream characters would, and he'd then write about it and ponder the meaning of what they said to him - essentially analyzing these episodes as if they were dreams. He could also talk to them and ask questions. He would also do drawings and paintings and sculptures based on them afterwards as a way of pondering the events visually (non-verbally - using yet a different part of the mind).

This is how he met the female character that he realized served as a sort of bridge to his inner subconscious world... his anima.

Anyway, I just thought this was a very interesting idea and most likely a very good way to draw forth contents from your subconscious. And I just realized that if I do this now, I have a much larger stable of personalities to access - people on this message board.

***EDIT***

Thought of some things I'd like to add -

When I started doing this was mostly when I'd mow the lawn as a kid/teenager. There was no music or TV, nothing to do but think. And the lawn was big... it took 45 minutes to cut! So, a lot of time to think. And at first I didn't realize who's 'voices' I was hearing... I would just simply think about something (subvocalizing) and then I'd hear vague voiceless responses. The responses were of only 2 types at first... 2 different 'voices', though at this point I didn't understand who's voices they were. One I came to call The Critic - this one was intelligent and articulate, but always negative and sort of passive/aggressively hostile - seeking to sabotage my thoughts through tricks and subterfuge. Later I came to recognize it as my mom's voice. The other I called The Idiot - it mostly just asked "What do you mean?" or some derivative - obfuscating the progress of the thinking through a different type of passive/aggressive resistance - making me constantly explain simple ideas over and over in different ways. This one soon resolved itself into the voice of my friend. And yes, their voices in my head pretty much paralleled the way they treated my ideas IRL.

After my first semester of college I had a new and much more positive voice to add... that of one of my art instructors. He began to turn the tide, and soon I began adding in other positive voices.

Also, I believe it's a possibility that Jung was actually incubating lucid dreams - because it certainly sounds form his descriptions like the figures would begin vague and indistinct and then rapidly become much more real and vivid.

**Epic Altruist** · 08-16-2011 07:41 PM

This seems interesting.I've always been interested in getting access to the subconscious either through dreams or through voices while awake.I've read about people having "voices" in their head,kind of like you describe, but these voices talked more often through images,feelings or intuition.

Your approach of actually using characters to give the voices personality is very new to me,though,and it is fortunate that I found this since I was thinking about a way of doing something productive on idle times like when I'm on the bus.I wonder,however,how do you manage do keep your train of thought on line with multiple voices in your head?Do you try to visualize them?Are the dialogues fast paced?

Please share your wisdom with me.

**Darkmatters** · 08-16-2011 11:23 PM

That's a great time for it, while riding the bus! As long as you don't have some weirdo sitting next to you talking at you the whole time...

Basically I never had to use any kind of visualization techniques or anything... I just would b thinking about something and subvocalizing it to myself. You know, how you're like right on the verge of actually speaking only you dont? I find that when I'm thinking about something that really interests me I automatically do this - in fact sometimes if I'm a little too into it I actually start talking to myself under my breath... moving my mouth but with no voice. I didn't realize I was doing this until a few people made fun of me for it, and when they did I thought back and realized I was really 'talking to myself'. Heh, so maybe I'm a little unstable and that's why this works...

But I just said all that so you understand exactly what I mean by subvocalizing.

Also, I think it's necessary to be thinking about something that's really important to you. Something you can get worked up about.

I'd find myself mowing the lawn and just thinking idly about nonsense - you know "That Gilligan! When will he learn... " or whatever, and I'd think "no... I can use this time for something more important". And it would take a moment of effort to start a decent train of thought. It's like clearing your mind of all the pointless crap that clogs it up most of the time and getting focused. Or even better yet, is if you're pissed off about some argument you've been having with somebody. In that case, just continue it in your head. Of course, the problem with continuing an argument is that when you state your opinion, no matter how well reasoned it is, the other person will automatically disagree. I'm sure that's how I started doing this... continuing arguments that I didn't feel done with yet. In that kind of situation it's not like you have to work to supply the other person's voice or point of view... it pops up all by itself because you already know what they'll say / how they'll say it.

So that might be a good way to start out. Think about some argument that you didn't win (that way you;ll still have some simmering feelings about it) - it might even work with an old argument if you still feel strongly about it. Just imagine yourself in the situation again and state your position. Don't worry about visuals - think of it as a phone convo if that helps. I never pictured these people at all.

And you shouldn't have to work to 'hear' them at all either. IDK though, have a very good imagination that I've sharpened by being an artist/writer, so maybe 'normal' people can't do it as easily? Though I suspect most people on this board are in pretty much the same boat as me.

Anyway - if you do try it by initiating an argument, then try to bring in another voice. Somebody you know who might have a more neutral opinion or who might naturally try to be a peacekeeper. Or who would take your side entirely. In this way hopefully you'll see how it works and then you can try it with other situations besides arguments. Maybe don't think of it as "getting access to the subconscious" - that puts a weird spin on it and I never thought of it that way until much later - just begin an inner dialogue. It's not anything difficult - we do it all the time really. But I think we normally just do it if we're pissed off about some argument we just lost or something.

The point is to try to use the same technique for something more constructive.

**Epic Altruist** · 08-17-2011 06:54 PM

Thanks,now that you put it that way I think I also think I've been carrying on this kind of conversations on my mind for some time as well.I often try to get my point across or convince someone of something only to realize I'm not really talking to them.It kind of works as practice for argumentation but I talk much more and feel much more free when its only in my mind.They tend to turn into daydreams sometimes so I think that why I thought about the visualization thing.

I'm afraid most of the time I'm just really convincing myself though,and the other people I imagine to be talking to don't really say anything at all.The kind of dialogue you have may be impossible to me since,like you mentioned, you have creative skills and I,to be really honest,have a dull imagination.

**Darkmatters** · 08-18-2011 01:14 AM

Well that's exactly how it was for me at first, when it was only rehearsals for arguments or reliving arguments. I got tired of just doing that though (cause it takes a long time to mow that lawn!) and decided at some point to get more positive with it. I figured, if I can do it for an argument, maybe I could do it with a more sensible discussion.

But I do think it's important that the conversation be something that really matters to you, probably on an emotional level. And it's also important to use the right people. I found certain people just wouldn't "take". So I tried a few more until I had a few that would "speak up". And I couldn't really force particular ones to take part in a conversation - they either had something to say or they didn't.

I tried to do it last night so I could examine it more closely and write about it here, but it wasn't working very well... I think I wasn't interested enough in the subject matter. I wasn't really hearing anybody's 'voice' so much as just knowing basically what they might say in that situation. Possibly that's all it really is anyway, and I just 'filled in' for them in my approximation of their voice? No, it seems like the voices really rose up from inside my head and made statements without my bidding.

But the convos that worked the best were always about something I had a strong personal stake in, like what to take in college - stuff like that.

Another great time/place to try it is when you're walking. Again, there's no TV or music (shut off the smartphones and iPods people!) and all you have to do is think. It takes a bit of an effort to get out of "look at the pretty scenery" mode and start a round table, but once you do, you can still look at the pretty scenery. I need to go for a walk one of these days and try it again. Don't think it'll work while I'm walking my dog... that takes too much effort and she's way too distracting.

**juroara** · 08-18-2011 03:07 AM

People from this message board? XD boy does that sound fun.

I think my automatic writing sessions were what you call imaginal dialogues, because it was always a conversation between two people. I feel this way about stories as well. I don't consider a story a purely imaginary thing, I think if you've got characters living in your head there is something subconscious going on. What if you made yourself a character in that story? What would your characters tell you?

**Darkmatters** · 08-18-2011 03:59 AM

Um... nobody IN PARTICULAR of course...

Juroara_and_Dannon

Good point about automatic writing! Absolutely!! And I also agree... characters, even though they're there mainly to serve a story, definitely take their substance from the author's unconscious. Often a minor character can steal the show and end up saying important things that you didn't realize you wanted to say.

**Dthoughts** · 08-31-2011 03:14 AM

Nice thread.

Can't believe i missed it because it's right up my alley.

I accidantily stumbled on this phenomenon when i'd be thinking of stuff to say to people on dreamviews and how they might respond to that. And sometimes it gets really interesting. I feel strongly about it being collective unconsious. I heared the term from Carl Jung ofcourse. And even tho i haven't read his books yet. I will read it. Especially after you made this post he sounds more and more interesting.

**Darkmatters** · 08-31-2011 03:32 AM

Yes, he really is. One of his most accessible books I've found yet is Dreams Memories Reflections (think I messed up the order, but you know). I just finished that one plus 2 more, and have a couple more sitting in my bedside stack for the future. I love his ideas about the collective unconscious, but the way I interpret it is different from what you seem to mean. I think he's talking more about instincts and racial memories that get passed on to everyone through DNA and lie dormant in the unconscious until needed, when you experience an archetypal intrusion... a dream or vision or weird thought out of nowhere that seems to tell you something important. I don't think it means an actual database of thoughts that everyone can tap into as if by wi-fi or something, which is how a lot of people seem to interpret it. For instance, your example of knowing what the word meant that you had never learned... I think it's more likely you might have heard it like on a TV that was on in the other room while you were on the phone to a friend, and never consciously realized you even heard it, but the subconscious logged it away.

Oh sorry, you didn't say that on this thread!! Oh well, Ill leave it here anyway.

**KushyBear** · 09-13-2011 11:25 PM

I do this all the time. If I'm in an environment with lots of people, such as school, I'd usually "see" a good number of possibilities of interactions with whomever I would choose. First choosing those that I could predict most well, going as deep as I could in a conversation or actions, then moving to the next person. But when I'm alone, or just choose not to do that, I'd bring people in and create whatever I like. It's pretty fun and about 99% of the time, I feel it too.

**Original Poster** · 09-14-2011 04:27 PM

I started this type of overly contemplative internal dialogue waiting for the excruciatingly slow buses in my home town. One day as a 6 hour lay-over flew by, I realized that my powers of contemplation had become more of a burden and I didn't know how to stop them. I started meditating and doing something I call "free thinking" where I take a voice recorder and empty all my thoughts into it over a period of 20 minutes to an hour then replay it back later. This helped me get focused enough I could articulate this dialogue better and started keeping a journal, blog, started posting my thoughts on forums and etc...

I have a lot to thank my mind for, even though it's a hard beast to tame and I still have ADD up the wazoo, it's got a very refined sense of criticism and it also raised the bar so I was forced to achieve above average focus and awareness through meditation and the like just to live in my head comfortably.

**lilthugdollaz** · 09-14-2011 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

I used to do something I called Imaginal Dialogues... didn't want to just call them imaginary because that word carries negative connotations (it's not 'real', it's just fantasy, daydreaming etc).

Smart ppl see right thru that trick homes. u crazy.

**Darkmatters** · 09-14-2011 04:31 PM

Yo mama!

**lilthugdollaz** · 09-14-2011 04:35 PM

Don't b talkin bout my momma BRO. Ill track u down. I aint care if this is internt Bro. Real talk u crazy foo.

**Darkmatters** · 09-14-2011 04:42 PM

Ma bad Cuz - no disrespect to yo mamma.

Yo Face!!!

Peace.

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