Thread: I am so frustrated

I've been trying to attain lucidity for about 2 and a half months now. I keep a dream journal, I RC, I repeat my mantra every night before I fall asleep. Even with all that, I still haven't even had a sliver of lucidity. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I remember at least 1 dream a night, so I don't think it's my dream recall. When I wake up, I almost always feel like smacking myself on the forehead because the signs I was dreaming were so obvious. If anyone could give me some suggestions or tell me if I'm doing something wrong that would be a huge help!

Why are you focusing on the fact that you are NOT having LD's? ^^

If you continuously focus on that, your brain will guess you are not able to lucid dream and will therefore keep you in that state (and you complain more and you stay more in that state). You know, you may put all the effort in the world into LD (or anything else, for that matter), but if you have a subconscious belief that you cannot do something, you'll likely not be able to do it, and I think that's your case. Even if you used all your conscious effort to get LD's, if your imagination is in disaccord with it, the latter will likely be stronger than the former.

There is good news though. What you have to do is change your focus: take some time, during the day or when getting into bed at night, to use visualization to help you out. All you have to do is relax and imagine, like it was happening right NOW, that you are in a dream, you recognize some dream signs, do RC's and become lucid. Really feel it, use your five senses, your imagination and attach emotions to it (how would you feel if you were lucid dreaming right now?). This, together with more mindfully RC's (really doubt whether you are dreaming or not!), should do the trick.

Cheers.

You shouldn't rush things too much, it will just make you feel discouraged.
It is better to start with small, more realistic steps, for example one good first goal is to improve your dream recall, and see if you can notice any recurring themes.
Then, your second goal could be to simply try being as present as possible in the dream, not necessarily becoming lucid but at least being as awake as possible so that you feel more and more "alive" in them.
Then, once you have developed your dream recall and general awareness you can start making more bold goals, like having at least one lucid dream before the end of the next month, or something like that.

WBTB with MILD. You're doing everything else right, you just need to create the right opportunity. Your best chance to have your first lucid dream is to wake with that facepalm moment of missing a dream sign from the previous dream, and then carry that motivation and state of awareness into the next dream. That's what the WBTB is for, you need to wake at least once in the middle of the night so that you can use the recall from one dream to motivate a second dream. The WBTB also improves your awareness just by spending some time awake.

Have you ever tried working with crystals/gem stones? Try using moonstone, lapiz lazuli, any of the many stones that can help with dreamwork/lucidity (or perhaps even try one like citrine for help with self assurance and taking control) or even just regular quartz.
Do you know of "programming" crystals? Basically, just hold your stone while you meditate. Feel it's energy connecting with yours as you focus on what you need help with. And then as Valdast94 said, try the visualization method with as much emotion as possible.
You can sleep with it under your pillow or next to your bed. I would recommend trying to keep the stone on/near you as much as possible throughout your day too.

Maybe try waking up early and trying a WILD, this morning I got my first lucid by doing this. I counted backwards from 100 and in a few minutes I found myself in a dream but unfortunately for me I hadn't quite figured out it was a dream and woke up .

I have been trying to Lucid Dream a little longer than you and I understand your frustration, you just gotta stay positive. You can do it!

Appreciate your dreams, thank your SC for your dreaming experiences, focus on recall, keep thinking about lucidity, stay positive! Tell yourself you can't wait to get to sleep because you love dreaming so much. Put real effort into your RCs: try to really prove to yourself what your state is. Do this a lot during the day. Keep a regular sleep schedule, eat healthy foods (high in choline / tryptophan like chicken, milk eggs, turkey), take vitamin supplements with B5/6/12, and so on and so on. Above all be consistent and stay positive. You can focus on recall with the intent that you want to become lucid. Tell yourself all throughout the day that you're a talented dreamer. And take some of the pressure off of yourself, try the auto-suggestion approach which is no pressure, if you haven't yet read ETWOLD by LaBerge cover to cover, it includes that approach (as does his A Course In Lucid Dreaming, an organized step-by-step approach, go through all of the exercises, including prospective memory exercises.)

If you stick with it the lucids WILL come. The only difference between expert non-natural lucid dreamers who have lots of lucid dreams and the people who want them but don't get LDs is that the experts didn't give up in the beginning. It's better to stick with it than to give up and come back to it later. Just enjoy the whole process, and look forward to the dreams with positive expectation! If you wake up with recall, even when not lucid, be grateful that you can remember your dreams, most of the population think they don't even dream much if at all.

Thanks Fryingman! I am in a similar situation, and your post helped set me straight!

Fryingman, Thanks once again for this steadying advice. I was about to drop the enterprise, but relaxed and continued on. I was handsomely rewarded last night with a successful WBTB & MILD in my 4th REM cycle!

Glad to be of assistance. There's no doubt, a good LD is a truly amazing experience, but even just remembering multiple dreams per night, especially when they're kind of wild and wacky & fun, always puts a smile on my face. The more effort you work on dream recall, and on LDing in general, the more you'll remember of your dreams since you'll be more aware in them, to the point where finally you get lucid. You can never have enough recall (BrandonBoss especially stresses this), we dream all night long, most of it is forgotten, really try to retain as much of it as you can, and you'll learn alot about your dreams and just enjoy your nights a lot more! The more you know what your dreams are like, the more the chances to become lucid.

If you're not already waking up multiple times per night to remember dreams, you might try setting this intention at bed time: "I wake up after every dream, remain still, and recall my dreams". Some warn that such an intention can have the effect of REALLY waking you fully up and being hard to get back to sleep. But I used it for most of my 6 months so far, and indeed woke up alot during the night and worked on recall, and really soon I was remembering 3-4 dream scenes per waking.

Lately I'm not so enthusiastic about waking up a lot and set a more mild intention: "I notice when my dream has ended, remain still, recall the dream, and DEILD back in" (as I'm working more on DEILD now). I still notice my waking around 5-7 hours, make mental notes about dreams a few times, and get back to sleep for one or two more sleep cycles and dreaming, then record in the morning. It's worked so far this week. I may forget the really early morning dreams (3hrs), but I'm sleeping well and getting rest, and still remembering at least 7 scenes per night or more, some of them very long.

Also, try play acting. During the day, repeat to yourself, "I'm a master lucid dreamer, every dream is lucid, I'm lucid all night long," etc., etc. Strut around the bedroom at bedtime, *knowing* you'll have all those lucids because you're a master lucid dreamer. And don't let yourself get upset if they don't come, just stay positive, KNOW you can and you will. This is something else I do too, especially in dry spells.

To the OP: one dream a night is good, but more is better. Try to remember at least one dream per waking, and wake up naturally several times per night (and at least note down a keyword or two, then get back to sleep). The really good LDers have great recall, and developing recall is something you can absolutely do even without lucids.

edit: here's how I do recall. Unless I've had a lucid or a very aware dream where I smoothly transition from dream to awake while aware, I find myself awake in bed without any dreams in my memory. Before moving (this is not always easy, to suppress the roll over signal, but really try to work on it), I ask myself, "What was I just dreaming about?" And just wait quietly for the dreams to come in, and 99% of the time some recall comes in, and then that triggers a flood of memories. The more you do this, the better you get at it. Try to recall further and further back into the dreams, once you get a memory, ask "what was I dreaming about before that? And before that? And before that?....etc.".

Also, a few times during the day, replay your day backwards in your mind, in as much detail as you can manage. Accessing memory is an important ability to develop as accessing memory is one of the pillars of lucid dreaming (the other being self-awareness).

And if you're not already, sign up for the DV academy classes, and by all means go read through all of Sageous's WILD class materials, even if you don't try WILD, learning the fundamentals will really help you out.

I have recently run into the problem of having difficulty falling asleep. Additionally, as you discussed, I am waking up in the night and having great difficulty falling back asleep. This has put a serious hurtin' on my sleep and general quality of life. I chalk this up to too much forcing and an unskillful application of efforts. Thanks once again for your excellent advice!

Originally Posted by KonchogTashi

I have recently run into the problem of having difficulty falling asleep. Additionally, as you discussed, I am waking up in the night and having great difficulty falling back asleep. This has put a serious hurtin' on my sleep and general quality of life. I chalk this up to too much forcing and an unskillful application of efforts. Thanks once again for your excellent advice!

You may want to look up a number of my posts about this, I also had big problems getting back to sleep doing various night-time practices like SSILD, MILD, etc, and still do from time to time, but less so now. The key for me was embracing relaxation in a big way, and finding and releasing tension in body and mind. A big discovery for me was holding tension in my eyes, and "unfocusing" them really helped to get to sleep. Also, getting daily exercise. Another secret: "trying to" get to sleep usually results in not getting to sleep: "not trying to sleep" but just relaxing deeper and deeper gets you to sleep quickly! Also, stressing about sleep is another way to guaranteed stay awake. "Oh no think of all the dreaming time I'm losing!" is a BIG no-no, don't go there.

For those who wake up really quickly, you need to really be careful of what you do when you wake in the middle of the night: finding what you can do, how long you can work on recall and recording, so that you can still get back to sleep, is part of the journey. I'm still working on that but have made some progress in getting back to sleep, which is a big confidence booster.

For me, the critical hours are 5-6th hours after bedtime. Before that and after that I generally have no trouble getting back to sleep even with doing recall and recording, but during those hours doing much more than turning over and going back to sleep and I risk waking up for good for the day.

I came up with a synthesis of SSILD and relaxation that has worked, basically you stay mindful of how much drowsiness you have on tap and if that drops too low just jettison the SSILD (or what you're doing ) and just get right down to total relaxation and emptying your mind.

It takes some practice doing this to get a feel for it, but it's well worth it.

It also takes some discipline to stop daydreaming sometimes (at least for me), empty my mind, and just relax. But you have to choose what's important to you: getting back to sleep, or the daydreaming .

FryingMan..thank you, thank you, thank you!

I was struggling to find a way to recall and jot down my dreams and at the same time have a good sleep (some nights I sleep very badly) and you just gave me the answer!

The mantras you repeat during the day are also useful, I sometimes imagine being in front of an audience and playing the expert lucid dreamer explaining these concepts to the audience and I've noticed it really helps me

The replay your day backwards in your mind is also a cool tool, I've been doing it for a couple of days as a reality check, but it's also cool to strengthen your memory, both the waking and dreaming one.
I'm also considering starting a personal diary to write down all the things I do during the day..it's fun and I'm sure it can help me strengthen my memory. I'll let you guys know how it goes ^^

Nice! I got a late morning LD today myself today, a very rewarding one as I finally "got a grip" on myself, suppressed the "I'm lucid! Run!" instinct, stabilized, and remembered a desired goal, and carried it out. It was a close thing, I almost got up for the day earlier, but just felt there was more dreaming in me. I had spent a lot of mental effort on recall around the 6th-7th hour (which was rewarded with some nice solid memories of the dreams) but that really woke me up. I had to gather my will to relax, clear my mind, and drift off again, and I dozed on and off accumulating some more dreams, including revisiting a site (in my mind at least I felt I was there) from an earlier waking! I recall thinking something about lucidity in that dream (argh!) (in addition to taking abite of a shrimp egg flavored pastry, haha dreams are awesome).

The thing is, nobody can help you lucid dream. This is probably one of the most important things I've learned over the last 6 months. Others can give advice, can point you at resources & tutorials, but there's only one person who can do it: you. Sleep problems? Learn how to fix it and fix it. Motivation problems? Dedicate yourself or quit.

And you showed yourself today that you can do it, which is very empowering. Every time I get back to sleep from being very alert/awake I count it as a huge victory. And now I KNOW that I can get back to sleep, if I can just find the will to keep my mind quiet (assuming the physical parts are also taken care of: exercise, diet, sleep schedule). It's all about the will.