Thread: NREM reality checks

Give some examples of n-REM dreams, I only ever recall two dreams that I thought might be n-REM

they had a fast flowing nature to them,

In one I was like at a canal or river and images of things were flowing along it but as the dream went along they changed boats, ships, fish, people, the whole thing constantly seemed to flow from one idea set of things into another with great speed and fluidity, nothing had the right sense of speed or scale, all too small or too big and moving changing much to fast

The other one I was in a rail yard there seemed at first just to be a few tracks, but more and more trains were coming in both directions and new tracks would appear, I would be jumping out of the way only to find another train incoming, sometimes having to jump through open sections of train (like flat beds or whatever) only to find myself in the path of another incoming train. If was fast and frantic like a bizarre game of 3D frogger

What have you experienced that you think were n-REM?

You said, "Heart rate increases until vision returns to black."

Have you had this problem before? I can't WILD bc my heart starts racing and then my breathing becomes sporadic and it wakes me up! I've been very close before, like you I couldn't hear or feel anything, but I noticed my heart beating and the rate skyrocketed! I'm guessing meditation would help. But how do I address this problem specifically?

Hi, I spend lots of time in NRem consciously awake, with my body asleep for hours at a time. I do WBTB at least three times a week. I wake up naturally after 5.5 to 6 hrs sleep after having a regular dream. I get up for a 20 minutes and read about LD or OBE. Then I view pictures for on my digital picture frame for 10 mins. These pictures are related to what I want to dream about. Then I lay perfectly still. After about 10 minutes my hands and feet are tingling, and I can't feel them (if that makes sense). Then at about 20 minutes my arms and legs are tingling and they feel like they're not there. After about 1/2 hour my hearing stops and I can't feel, or see anything. When my hearing stops, I know I'm in the void or Nrem. My vision is kind of a light grayish green. Nothing is there. It's very boring and I find myself thinking about various things to help pass the time. Images appear occasionally and they're related to what I'm thinking about. I even hear sounds intermittently. This is when I can relax further into the twilight zone and go into an LD. I find it very difficult not to go unconscious at those seconds just before the dream starts. If I can maintain my consciousness then I enter the dream lucid. When the LD ends, then I remain perfectly still and I remain in the void waiting for the next LD to start. I've had nights where I've had 6 consecutive LD's over 3 hours and kept consciously aware the entire time until my alarm goes off. This only works for me from WBTB at 6 hrs to about 9 hours. After that, I can't maintain Nrem state, and my LD's are usually DILDS. It's hit and miss. Earlier this week I entered NRem and stayed there from 4Pm to 6:30 Am with no dreams because I couldn't drop into the twilight zone (now that was beyond boring). I learnt how to be conscious in NRem by practicing meditation. I meditate once in the morning for 10 minutes, lunch for 45 minutes, then again in the evening for 10 minutes. Practicing meditation helps you enter the twilight zone without falling asleep. There's all types of cool experiences you can have while meditating which can be every bit as exciting as an LD (if not the same thing). I've recently discovered you can interact with dream figures by speaking and touch while in NRem (without any vision), and this happens in the twilight zone, but before the dream starts. You can stay there for a long time interacting. It seems to be a good place where you can interact with your dream figure in peace and quiet (there's no nasty dream figures there). This dream figure interaction during NRem has only happened a few times, but I think it can be mastered with practice. I feel this was made possible for me through practicing meditation (lots of it). Oh yes, if I start to go unconscious while in NRem, an imaginary bell goes off (ring, ring, ring) quite frequently which I'm short on words to explain, but it certainly helps to keep you consciously aware. So bring along your imaginary bell while in NRem.

Originally Posted by Tihiti

Hi, I spend lots of time in NRem consciously awake, with my body asleep for hours at a time. I do WBTB at least three times a week. I wake up naturally after 5.5 to 6 hrs sleep after having a regular dream. I get up for a 20 minutes and read about LD or OBE. Then I view pictures for on my digital picture frame for 10 mins. These pictures are related to what I want to dream about. Then I lay perfectly still. After about 10 minutes my hands and feet are tingling, and I can't feel them (if that makes sense). Then at about 20 minutes my arms and legs are tingling and they feel like they're not there. After about 1/2 hour my hearing stops and I can't feel, or see anything. When my hearing stops, I know I'm in the void or Nrem. My vision is kind of a light grayish green. Nothing is there. It's very boring and I find myself thinking about various things to help pass the time. Images appear occasionally and they're related to what I'm thinking about. I even hear sounds intermittently. This is when I can relax further into the twilight zone and go into an LD. I find it very difficult not to go unconscious at those seconds just before the dream starts. If I can maintain my consciousness then I enter the dream lucid. When the LD ends, then I remain perfectly still and I remain in the void waiting for the next LD to start. I've had nights where I've had 6 consecutive LD's over 3 hours and kept consciously aware the entire time until my alarm goes off. This only works for me from WBTB at 6 hrs to about 9 hours. After that, I can't maintain Nrem state, and my LD's are usually DILDS. It's hit and miss. Earlier this week I entered NRem and stayed there from 4Pm to 6:30 Am with no dreams because I couldn't drop into the twilight zone (now that was beyond boring). I learnt how to be conscious in NRem by practicing meditation. I meditate once in the morning for 10 minutes, lunch for 45 minutes, then again in the evening for 10 minutes. Practicing meditation helps you enter the twilight zone without falling asleep. There's all types of cool experiences you can have while meditating which can be every bit as exciting as an LD (if not the same thing). I've recently discovered you can interact with dream figures by speaking and touch while in NRem (without any vision), and this happens in the twilight zone, but before the dream starts. You can stay there for a long time interacting. It seems to be a good place where you can interact with your dream figure in peace and quiet (there's no nasty dream figures there). This dream figure interaction during NRem has only happened a few times, but I think it can be mastered with practice. I feel this was made possible for me through practicing meditation (lots of it). Oh yes, if I start to go unconscious while in NRem, an imaginary bell goes off (ring, ring, ring) quite frequently which I'm short on words to explain, but it certainly helps to keep you consciously aware. So bring along your imaginary bell while in NRem.

That is great. Meditation is very helpful here as you say. I would say that what you describe is very classic nREM (one manifestation, there are many). This is very similar to what I experience, but I have learned to have some very cool interactive dreams in this state. I will offer you a tip.With tactile (touch) visualization you can use this phase to practice all sorts of things. You can spend tons of time changing your dream body into animals, then when in a normal LD you will be well practiced. You can also spend the time doing fun tactile things such as dancing or gymnastics.

Originally Posted by Tihiti

Hi, I spend lots of time in NRem consciously awake, with my body asleep for hours at a time. I do WBTB at least three times a week. I wake up naturally after 5.5 to 6 hrs sleep after having a regular dream. I get up for a 20 minutes and read about LD or OBE. Then I view pictures for on my digital picture frame for 10 mins. These pictures are related to what I want to dream about. Then I lay perfectly still. After about 10 minutes my hands and feet are tingling, and I can't feel them (if that makes sense). Then at about 20 minutes my arms and legs are tingling and they feel like they're not there. After about 1/2 hour my hearing stops and I can't feel, or see anything. When my hearing stops, I know I'm in the void or Nrem. My vision is kind of a light grayish green. Nothing is there. It's very boring and I find myself thinking about various things to help pass the time. Images appear occasionally and they're related to what I'm thinking about. I even hear sounds intermittently. This is when I can relax further into the twilight zone and go into an LD. I find it very difficult not to go unconscious at those seconds just before the dream starts. If I can maintain my consciousness then I enter the dream lucid. When the LD ends, then I remain perfectly still and I remain in the void waiting for the next LD to start. I've had nights where I've had 6 consecutive LD's over 3 hours and kept consciously aware the entire time until my alarm goes off. This only works for me from WBTB at 6 hrs to about 9 hours. After that, I can't maintain Nrem state, and my LD's are usually DILDS. It's hit and miss. Earlier this week I entered NRem and stayed there from 4Pm to 6:30 Am with no dreams because I couldn't drop into the twilight zone (now that was beyond boring). I learnt how to be conscious in NRem by practicing meditation. I meditate once in the morning for 10 minutes, lunch for 45 minutes, then again in the evening for 10 minutes. Practicing meditation helps you enter the twilight zone without falling asleep. There's all types of cool experiences you can have while meditating which can be every bit as exciting as an LD (if not the same thing). I've recently discovered you can interact with dream figures by speaking and touch while in NRem (without any vision), and this happens in the twilight zone, but before the dream starts. You can stay there for a long time interacting. It seems to be a good place where you can interact with your dream figure in peace and quiet (there's no nasty dream figures there). This dream figure interaction during NRem has only happened a few times, but I think it can be mastered with practice. I feel this was made possible for me through practicing meditation (lots of it). Oh yes, if I start to go unconscious while in NRem, an imaginary bell goes off (ring, ring, ring) quite frequently which I'm short on words to explain, but it certainly helps to keep you consciously aware. So bring along your imaginary bell while in NRem.

This is amazing! It's funny that we harshly strive for it, and you are actually there and you found it boring

Tell me about your meditation experience and how do you meditate? It's very hard to get into meditational state in waking for me, almost impossible so I would appreciate every advice from anyone who do it effectively on regular basis.

Originally Posted by sivason

I will offer you a tip. With tactile (touch) visualization you can use this phase to practice all sorts of things. You can spend tons of time changing your dream body into animals, then when in a normal LD you will be well practiced. You can also spend the time doing fun tactile things such as dancing or gymnastics.

Tactile visualization sounds better than touch! I'll use that phrase instead. I'm going to experiment with your suggestions and see if I can start doing more while there!

Originally Posted by Nfri

Tell me about your meditation experience and how do you meditate? It's very hard to get into meditational state in waking for me, almost impossible so I would appreciate every advice from anyone who do it effectively on regular basis.

Hi Nfri, I've only been meditating for about a year and half. I was seeing a counsellor regarding my daughter's passing, and nothing seemed to be helping me to cope. He then said he's a Buddhist. I found this odd because he's totally blonde and blue eyed, but he recommended I start meditating. He said he took up meditating after his mom passed and it helped immensely. He wouldn't give me any details on how it helped, but he simply recommended I give it a try. He said he's not allowed to discuss spirituality as a counsellor due to ethics. So, being at my wits end, I decided to start meditating (last resort, lol). I simply pray to God (I'm Christian), angels and heavenly spirits before I start, to ask for connection with my daughter. Then I lie perfectly still in bed, with a pillow, on my back. It seems every itch possible happens as you're trying to relax, but you must not move. When I first started (1 1/2 yrs ago) I would just see flashes of blue and purple lights occasionally, and if I was lucky I would see some images. The trick is to let your body fall asleep, but keep your mind conscious. If I try this in the evening I often fall asleep, so the best time is at lunch, or after 5 or 6 hours of deep sleep. You need to be rested so to avoid falling asleep consciously. I focus the energy in my brain from the sides to the upper frontal lobes. I can actually feel it move there. You can practice moving the energy back and forth (with eyes closed). When the energy is upper frontal lobes, then imagery is much clearer. My feet and hands lose feeling first, then my arms and legs. Then I can't feel my body. When the hearing stops, then I'm there, and things can get really interesting and 'waking life' like. Currently after a 1 1/2 years of meditating I can get decent imagery within 10 to 15 seconds of closing my eyes. After about 30 minutes I can get remote viewing with clarity similar to waking. If I go further and closer to the twilight zone, then I get sound and I can sometimes step into the imagery and have a lucid experience, but this is very rare for me. I usually get thrown out or get an electric zap when I enter the imagery. But when I do enter the lucid state, it's seems to be the same as a lucid dream. I'm now practicing to astral project during meditation, but I haven't been successful with that yet - there's lots of literature on how to do this. I can OBE exit during Nrem when I get 'the vibrations'. Anyway the experiences I've had during meditation have been nothing short of profound. Remote viewing during meditation is fun. It's possible to go to distant places, and through time, but I'm not at the steering wheel. I'm looking through somebody else's eyes. Imagine sitting on a large asteroid, of a planet's ring, in the shadow of the planet itself, as a star lights up the ring past the planet's shadow. All while being surrounded by the blackness of space and distant stars, and having clarity beyond what your physical eyes are capable of. Or watching Earth's continental shift from space over billions of years, in fast forward, over a couple of minutes. Or seeing a female angel solemnly kneeling on a stone floor with her eyes closed in such detail that I can see the individual strands making up each feather. Meditation offers some cool stuff well suited for lucid dreamers. I think this can be done in Nrem too, but it needs some work. The counsellor was right about Meditation helping me cope with my daughter's passing.

That is really cool, Tihiti. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. When you say shifting energy from one part of the brain to the other, do you focus on a particular part of the brain with the intent for energy to accumulate there? Do you visualize the energy moving from one place to another? Just curious.

Your description of the body slowly falling asleep sounds exactly like what happened to me on my bedtime FAC attempt. I think I reached the loss of hearing (and my vision was kind of grayish) but I became too excited and lost it.

Your visions (the angel, for instance) also sound very similar to things experienced during deep episodes of yoga nidra. Interesting how your transition after 5-6 hours of sleep is nothing like what most people describe upon entering WILD, and much more like yoga nidra (withdrawal of senses/pratyahara). Very interesting!

Hi 3cat, yes, visualize energy moving from the lower sides of your brain, up thru the middle, then holding it there in the top front half of your brain. I know this sounds nutty, but it seems to work for me. Astral projection exercises involve moving energy around your body. For example visualize energy moving from your knee to your toes and back again. Repeat this over and over, and very quickly you will start to feel sensations that are hard to discribe. Everybody can do these exercises and feel it happening with little or no practice. Body awareness.