Expectations and Placebo in LDing

[VagalTone]

How do expectations apply to LDing? What are the limits of expectation effects on LDing induction ? That is, how proficient can we become just by the workings of expectations ? Is there a placebo effect on LDing induction ? If there is such an effect can we convince ourselves that LDing is easy because it is subject to placebo effect, and so is heavily dependent on mindset ? * PS: Last week i have experienced what i believe to be a placebo effect from a drug, and now i am curious about expectations and the placebo effect.

[Barry]

I'd bet that some supplements that have 'induced' lucid dreams are purely down to placebo. 'a study found that patient recovery can be increased by words that suggest the patient "would be better in a few days", and if the patient is given treatment, that "the treatment would certainly make him better" This could be why mantras work like 'I will lucid dream!'.

[FryingMan]

Intention/expectation are one of the pillars of lucid dreaming. That's not entirely surprising, seeing as how it's all in our minds to begin with! I think people who can place themselves directly into a positive feedback loop (get lucid -> expect to get lucid more -> get lucid more -> expect more, etc.) have great success. That's the thing about pillars, though: just one doesn't hold up a roof! You need all the corners covered (awareness/mindfulness, access to memory, recall). So, my conclusion is that expectation is necessary, but not sufficient.

[AURON]

I think expectations do go a long way, especially when using them with techniques like autosuggestion. I don't document it that much, but whenever I go through a dry spell, I'll tell myself "okay, I know I'm going to get lucid tonight, so I might as well get ready for it". Sometimes it'll happen that night, sometimes it'll take a few nights, but eventually it'll happen. I guess the key to is genuinely believing what you're telling yourself with the utmost confidence.

[JadeGreen]

You see, that's basically what MILD is. It's a placebo to increase your ability to lucid dream. Some lucid dreamers say that it is a standalone method for lucid dreaming, while others say that it is only a means to increase your chances of DILD. I guess the key to is genuinely believing what you're telling yourself with the utmost confidence. Everyone says that MILD is easy. This is the hard part. The cool thing about MILD though is that it snowballs. (At least in my experience) The more you do it, and the more it helps you, the more you can convince yourself that MILD is working, and the more it will actually work. So if you can get the ball rolling with MILD, then stay committed, theoretically it could become more effective over time.

[FryingMan]

Everyone says that MILD is easy. This is the hard part. I certainly never said MILD was easy. Falling asleep while doing visualizations/reciting a mantra is extremely challenging for me. Generally the best I can do is to do them for a while then stop and aim completely for sleep.

[VagalTone]

Gratitude practice seems like also a good way to raise confidence in our natural abilities to lucid dream. If instead of struggling and efforting for lucid dreaming with all daytime and nightime practices, we could just be grateful for having dreams and having the natural ability to recognize them as dreams ( something we can all do, right ? ) i believe we would be cultivating a very helpful mindset and a positive loop. In short, one should be grateful for lucidity, not wanting it, or fearing it won´t come to us.

[Barry]

I certainly never said MILD was easy. Falling asleep while doing visualizations/reciting a mantra is extremely challenging for me. Generally the best I can do is to do them for a while then stop and aim completely for sleep. Where in the same boat here.

[FryingMan]

Gratitude practice seems like also a good way to raise confidence in our natural abilities to lucid dream. If instead of struggling and efforting for lucid dreaming with all daytime and nightime practices, we could just be grateful for having dreams and having the natural ability to recognize them as dreams ( something we can all do, right ? ) i believe we would be cultivating a very helpful mindset and a positive loop. In short, one should be grateful for lucidity, not wanting it, or fearing it won´t come to us. I think this is right on!