Thread: foolproof Instant WILD anytime ...

Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

I say LD's obtained WITHOUT drugs are the best LDs. Just like I say anything done without drugs is the best way of doing things.

I don't share your prejudice towards magical plants and say: LDs are LDs and if a Marvelous plant can bring dreams of a higher consciousness and so aid Lucidity, then that is very handy and positive. Your judgement of "Drugs" closes you up for great experiences resulting from the divine powers our plant allies offer us. I've allways found it hard to grasp how many people here reason that utilising Plants to aid Lucid Dreaming is unnatural. :S

Originally Posted by mel_noah

All very interesting.

For the person who mentioned that acid has never permanently damaged anyone I beg to differ. Way back when (in my younger years) I took 8 hits of pure liquid acid and the trip that ensued was amazing at first. After about an hour or so I began to over heat. My friends placed me underneath a cold shower and steam rose off of my head. I literally fried my brain that day. The excruciating pain was something I cannot really describe, to sit there tripping and know that your brain is frying like an egg on a skillet, it was extremely terrifying...talk about taking an initially good trip and turning it into something horrible! For almost two days I could not speak. For over a week I bumbled around like an idiot. To this day, (almost a decade later) at times my tongue "feels" like it is swelling and I have trouble speaking. It comes in waves, and thankfully occurs a lot less than it did in the past.

Would I have died? I really doubt it. Can it do damage? Yes it definitely can. I was terrified of all hallucinogens after that (and for the most part I still am).

I don't want my experience to hinder anyone else’s' curiosity. Just remember that often time moderation is the key to success.

Side Note about Acid:
8 hits of pure acid? Well Acid is harmless, UNLESS off course you take the rediculous dose you took. Take too much of anything and it will be poisonous. Even water. Google "Water Poisoning". Somehow it would never occur to me to take 8 hits of acid. I've allways thought 1,5 blotter is the limit of desirable effects. Heard more of such stories from a friend who's lived in Hawaii for 2 years: In the US people seem to take AT least 4 hits a time and usually alot more. You simply OverDosed massively. It was you being dangerious, not Acid. Everyone who DOES acid should know that a standard dose and good trip is in between 200 and 400 micrograms. 8 hits of pure acid, assuming they were 400microgram doses(Pure acid: Liquid?) it means you took about 3200 micrograms: A REDICULOUSLY large dose.
OFF COURSE you experienced physical symptoms. A somewhat wiser user, like me, would know that taking that much is likely to result in physical symptoms and undesirably strong psychedelic effects. That won't ever happen if you take a normal dose; In between 200 micrograms and 400 micrograms. In blotters that translates into 1 good blotter(douced in acid). Why take so much?? Off course even acid can bring unhealthy physical symptoms if taken in large enough doses.

LSD: A briljant substance, with alot of not-so-briljant users unfortunately: This is what gives substances such as acid a bad name: The users who are wreckless. SO wreckless that they can probably get into great trouble playing Golf. When you want to do a drug, you'd do good going to erowid and read experience reports about it, especially the ones of folks who took it way TOO FAR. Your hyperthermia-acid experience was due to you being uninformed about a reasonable and safe dose. Had you reac Erowid Experience reports of LSD this would have Certainly Never have happened and you'd also find out that it doesn't take more than 400 micrograms to have an absolutely intense, but managable psychedelic experience.

'Nuff about acid.


Back ontopic: Salvia.
I have recently smoked some Salvia 10X extract(enhanced leaf) in a Joint. (What a wastefull method, but I wanted only minor effects:which I got)Actually I smoked 4 joints of some tobacco and 1/4th of the 0,5 grams of the extract per joint. I felt effects that were very appearant, entrancing, calmative and my attention was superstrong as with more psychedelics. Only the Clearity, of thought and Vision, was even more striking. It was as though the entire room suddenly fell silent. Much like a Non-breakthrough DMT experience.

I see how this Psychedelic Clearity, Focus and Entrancement can briljantly interact with Dreaming. So why don't you people keep your ignorant judgement to yourselves, while I and some other folks here explore the Oneirogenic potential of Salvia Divinorum?
If the Psychedelic experience is nothing for you, simply leave this Topic alone.
This is no moral discussion-Topic. This is an exploration topic. We will go there where you won't dare. Love it or hate it, but we're not waiting for your ignorant views of Magical plants. We have our own views. And since we defend them quite fiercely, assume we must have a good reason to do so.

If Salvia and Dreaming are to interact in a desirable way then I'd place a bet on Taking Salvia or Salvia Extract("Fortified" or "Enhanced" Leaf) Sublingually/Bucally as one is going to sleep (preferably in a WBTB fashion) I'm down for some Salvia Dreaming experimentation. I'll let you know when I'm up for it.

Originally Posted by SKA

I don't share your prejudice towards magical plants and say: LDs are LDs and if a Marvelous plant can bring dreams of a higher consciousness and so aid Lucidity, then that is very handy and positive. Your judgement of "Drugs" closes you up for great experiences resulting from the divine powers our plant allies offer us. I've allways found it hard to grasp how many people here reason that utilising Plants to aid Lucid Dreaming is unnatural. :S

I didn't say it was unnatural, I said having an LD without any drug is the best LD. And maybe I want to "close myself up for great experiences". If it makes me happy, then that's what matters to me. Divine powers my butt. The more you talk to me and say I'm missing out, the more I'm going to think of you like a person who pushes Religion on a non-religious person.

Take you "Divine" drugs for all I care. I'll stay happy without drugs, and have my LDs through practice and patience while being "ignorant".

SALVIA = GUARANTEED INSTANT LD !!!!


NOW IN CHERRY FLAVOR

Meh, your entire brain is made up of chemicals. There's some food for thought.

Listen to SKA and go bitch in your own thread.

Snowy Egypt - Just like you aren't going to 'convert' so to speak. We aren't going to either. Can't you see how ignorant you are? Not just about drugs.
And it's not a 'religion' per se, just a choice.

In fact, I'm going to make my own thread so you bitches can bitch in your own thread about how we all fuck our brains up like a bitch and don't achieve 'natural' LD's and we suck ass at LD'ing and we are bitches to drugs. See how long that can last and how much you have to talk about. "Drugs are bad for you" "yeh" "yeh" "no shit" "yeh" "true" "stoners suck" "yeh" "i agree"........ etc.

SKA - Did the Salvia have any effect on your dreaming that night? Please tell us how it goes if you do the chewing method.
I seem to remember a thread about this a while back but none of us ever got around to experimenting lol

Originally Posted by tommo

Meh, your entire brain is made up of chemicals. There's some food for thought.

Yea seriously, nearly everything is made up of chemicals, and pretty much everything that isn't is related in some way to chemicals or parts of chemicals.

Guys if you are gonna complain about drugs, use specific reasons. Don't say things are bad for you just because your government happened to outlaw them (which is irrelevant, in some places it's illegal to walk your dog or for men and women to speak to one another), or because you do not do them. And you can't just say that LDing the "natural" way is better than using any sort of supplement, especially if you haven't ever tried it enough times to actually know for yourself. You can't make generalizations and say taking salvia is worse than LDing naturally, but that it is ok to take B6 supplements, because what if someone eats a lot of peanut butter and jelly, so they end up eating a ton of niacin every day? As opposed to someone who only eats peanut butter once a week, or not at all, and doesn't eat nearly as much niacin. I mean, where do you draw the line? They are all chemical compounds that you are putting into your body. Why say one is better than the other? If you are going to, give actual scientific reasons.

Originally Posted by Shift

Guys if you are gonna complain about drugs, use specific reasons. Don't say things are bad for you just because your government happened to outlaw them (which is irrelevant, in some places it's illegal to walk your dog or for men and women to speak to one another), or because you do not do them. And you can't just say that LDing the "natural" way is better than using any sort of supplement, especially if you haven't ever tried it enough times to actually know for yourself. You can't make generalizations and say taking salvia is worse than LDing naturally, but that it is ok to take B6 supplements, because what if someone eats a lot of peanut butter and jelly, so they end up eating a ton of niacin every day? As opposed to someone who only eats peanut butter once a week, or not at all, and doesn't eat nearly as much niacin. I mean, where do you draw the line? They are all chemical compounds that you are putting into your body. Why say one is better than the other? If you are going to, give actual scientific reasons.

Where in the world is it illegal to walk your dog, or speak to members of the opposite sex? Are these practices outlawed for public safety like the use of the drugs we're discussing, or due to social/cultural conventions? Considering that you're criticizing others for using faulty reasoning, your post is fairly hypocritical.

Why can't I make the argument that LDing the 'natural' way is best? My goal is to have as much control over my body as possible without being dependent on the aid of foreign substances. I don't think it's a wise tradeoff to make it easier for yourself to gain lucidity at the cost of becoming dependent on substances, when you could put a bit more effort in and be able to LD without needing external aid.

The reason Vitamin B6 is 'allowed' is that it plays a major role in aiding macronutrient metabolism, neurotransmitter synthesis, histamine synthesis, hemoglobin synthesis and function and gene expression. The illegal drugs in question have no positive effects on body functions, and are actually often harmful to your body, as is their method of ingestion. Though everything breaks down into chemical compounds, vitamins and hallucinogens are definitely not equally safe or beneficial.

Here's the simple scientific reasoning why B6 is not comparable to salvia as a lucid dreaming aid:
Salvia does not induce lucid dreaming in any way
Salvia is a dissociative (its effects are much more like PCP than DMT). It blocks signals to the conscious mind from other parts of the brain. Though it induces dream-like hallucination, there is no consciousness involved, and thus no lucidity. In other words, if you think that being on salvia is like being in a lucid dream you've never experienced lucidity, because salvia produces the exact opposite effect, putting you into a LESS lucid state.

My point isn't "don't do drugs," and isn't even "don't do salvia" (though dissociatives and especially salvia are well known for having a higher frequency of "bad trips" than most abused drugs). My point is that you've got no business recommending mind-altering substances to people when you clearly know very little about the substances in question. It takes many years of education to understand these substances; simply experiencing them doesn't even give you the basics of what you need to know to be able to safely or responsibly recommend them to others

Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

I didn't say it was unnatural, I said having an LD without any drug is the best LD. And maybe I want to "close myself up for great experiences". If it makes me happy, then that's what matters to me. Divine powers my butt. The more you talk to me and say I'm missing out, the more I'm going to think of you like a person who pushes Religion on a non-religious person.

Take you "Divine" drugs for all I care. I'll stay happy without drugs, and have my LDs through practice and patience while being "ignorant".

Off course I am "trying to convert you" to my point of View. I'm showing you my Point of view, just as much as you're showing me your point of view and try to "convert me" to it. Isn't it what they call discussion? It could be me, but isn't that the reason that people are on discussion boards?

no need to get offended. Divine powers may be bullshit to someone who has never experienced them. Doesn't mean it is all gibberish and hocus-pocus nonsense. Im indeed telling you that you are missing out on alot, wether you would like it or not. It is like this: imagine having found a tunnel in an old deserted, disconnected metrotube. You follow it and it leads to a bright vortex-gate which ends up in another world full of unimaginable beings and sceneries. A very exquisite world. Overwhelming, Beautyfull, Full of wonder, sometimes even a littlebit too overwhelming and humbling. You could safely say that, allthough such a world is not a desirable place for everyone, everyone who doesn't know it and has never been there is indeed missing out on quite a bit, wouldn't you agree?