Thread: Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD)

Originally Posted by rynkrt3

I have been an on-and-off lucid dreamer for the past few years. Never finding true success with any method I've tried. I have tried SSILD a few times with no success. I like the simplicity and sustainability of this technique and would like to master it. I have a few clarifications to ask. For anyone who has had repeated sucsess with this method, what is your typical SSILD attempt like?

I usually WBTB for X amount of time, lay down and relax for a few minutes then cycle until my random thoughts start to take over. I then fall asleep. Never had any results.

If anyone is willing to help me improve my SSILD I would greatly appreciate it, as lucid dreaming is a huge interest of mine but it has been on the back burner for quite a while with life getting in the way and this method seems promising without taking to much time out of my daily life.

Thanks

Sounds like you are performing the technique correctly. Assuming that is true (I can't tell for sure without more details given), then you should watch for False Awakenings. Do you wake up multiple times after doing SSILD? If the answer is yes, then chances are those were FAs, or trances which can be easily manipulated into a WILD. If the answer is no, then it is likely you have not had sufficient sleep prior to doing the exercise. Hope this helps and good luck!

Originally Posted by Scizorist

Hello everyone, this is my first post ever on this forum and was motivated by my very first lucid dream as a result of this method. I've been trying to have a lucid dream for what seems like almost 2 months now trying different methods such as MILD and WILD but it never seemed to work.

I read this method on the forum LITERALLY 2 hours ago, decided to test it out and it worked successfully the FIRST TIME??!! I became lucid via DILD midway into a normal dream but as soon as I realized I was dreaming I thought "oh my god I need to stabilize the dream" and started rubbing my hands together. However unfortunately the dream faded a few seconds later because I assume I became too excited.

Anyways big thanks to CosmicIron for developing and explaining such a straightforward and simple method that worked for me personally on the first attempt!

Wow that feels good I have been quite busy with a personal project lately so I didn't log in for some time. It's always good to see someone put the technique to use and have success with it! I'm still watching this thread closely so should you have any questions do not hesitate to ask. Cheers

Originally Posted by reveriemyst

Hi, I just wanted to sincerely thank CosmicIron and everyone involved in developing/sharing this technique. This has worked amazingly well for me right off the bat, as opposed to DILD, MILD, WILD (just couldn't get the hang of those ). So a big THANKS!

My pleasure, as always.

@Cosmic; I've had a lucid dream every time I've used SSILD with WBTB. While I'm not sure whether I would have had the LDs if my induction attempts weren't backed up by meditation and lucid living, according to you SSILD is impaired by any other awareness work, I may try it alone next week. Regardless of the nuances, this has legs for sure, it's only the second day of the week and I've already hit my goal for 4 lucid dreams this week. I tip my hat, CosmicIron, this is legit.


Also, I've noticed that people in this thread seem to have some weird ideas about the placebo effect. Let's get this clear, if this was a thread proposing a pharmaceutical induction of lucid dreams, then it would be appropriate to question whether the effects were due to placebo. Placebo refers to the degree to which results from a drug are due to psychological, and not physiological, effects. Placebos are fake pills used to test the validity of drugs to see whether patients get better from the pills only because they expect to, because doctors have to be sure what they're measuring, because people could die.

To describe something that is already a purely psychological process as placebo is literally retarded. And for the record, auto-suggestion and intention is to be found in every induction technique.

Yes, SSILD is placebo, insofar as every time you induce a lucid dream is a placebo.

EDIT: I may seem to be making a big deal (I am), but I don't have any vested interest in SSILD, this is a pet peeve and I'm pedantic. People whip out the word placebo for every new technique, and it's not worth even mentioning in intelligent discourse.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

People whip out the word placebo for every new technique, and it's not worth even mentioning in intelligent discourse.

To describe something that is already a purely psychological process as placebo is literally retarded.

"Literally retarded"? Intelligent discourse doesn't get any more intelligent than that!

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

@Cosmic; I've had a lucid dream every time I've used SSILD with WBTB. While I'm not sure whether I would have had the LDs if my induction attempts weren't backed up by meditation and lucid living, according to you SSILD is impaired by any other awareness work, I may try it alone next week. Regardless of the nuances, this has legs for sure, it's only the second day of the week and I've already hit my goal for 4 lucid dreams this week. I tip my hat, CosmicIron, this is legit.


Also, I've noticed that people in this thread seem to have some weird ideas about the placebo effect. Let's get this clear, if this was a thread proposing a pharmaceutical induction of lucid dreams, then it would be appropriate to question whether the effects were due to placebo. Placebo refers to the degree to which results from a drug are due to psychological, and not physiological, effects. Placebos are fake pills used to test the validity of drugs to see whether patients get better from the pills only because they expect to, because doctors have to be sure what they're measuring, because people could die.

To describe something that is already a purely psychological process as placebo is literally retarded. And for the record, auto-suggestion and intention is to be found in every induction technique.

Yes, SSILD is placebo, insofar as every time you induce a lucid dream is a placebo.

EDIT: I may seem to be making a big deal (I am), but I don't have any vested interest in SSILD, this is a pet peeve and I'm pedantic. People whip out the word placebo for every new technique, and it's not worth even mentioning in intelligent discourse.

I saw the term throughout this thread and wondered, "Okay, I did SSILD once, but maybe that was just a one-time luck deal. " Didn't know what other term to use. (probably should have just used 'the good luck' reason, but then with my luck (ha! I used that term again), someone would come on debating the existence of 'luck'.

I do wonder though about the people who go through faith healing or whatever it's called. Are they not experiencing some sort of placebo effect, even without any substances of any kind? (genuine question)

Anywho, my bad. Sorry if it peeved you.

It has come to my attention that lately, there is a person named summerlander who has been openly criticizing SSILD and myself on several forums, calling the technique a plagiarized version of Michael Raduga's "Indirect Methods" as well as referring me as "liars". I first found his post on Raduga's forum. After posting a reply to defend myself I got kicked out of the forum, without any warning and explanation, except a message saying "Get lost, you lying creep!"

This person centered his attack on my use of the word "phase" in the SSILD document. He considers that an evidence of me stealing from Raduga who is supposed to be sole proprietor of this phrase. I replied by basically saying --

1. You can't judge the technique by the word I chose to describe the phenomena, which has nothing to do with the technique itself. If you are going to call this technique a pirated version of something else then please compare the contents, not the words.

2. I did not adopt the phrase in my original documents which can be found in both Chinese, and on this forum under the title "A Practical Recipe for Inducing Lucid Dreams and OBEs." I only adopted the phrase during my revision of the tutorial in order to find a neutral word to describe the various phenomenon including LD, OBE, FA, etc.

3. I did not delete or edit any of the original SSILD-related postings, which are all here on this forum in their original form. Saying me "going to great lengths to get rid of the original descriptive document that he posted online" (quoted from summerlander) is beyond speculation, and really is vicious defamation.

Unfortunately he chose to ignore the facts I provided and instead kicked me out of the forum, which action now led me suspect he might be in some way associated with Rudga's obe4u.com setup. That's fine with me since I got my chance to explain and defend myself at least to some degree. However, I later noticed that this person has been posting similar attacks on several other forums too. As such, I feel it is important to make clear my stance on this matter. I made a blog post about this but probably no one will see it, LOL. Since this thread is where I provide support to everyone interested in SSILD, I decided to publish my statement here as well --

The SSILD technique is NOT a derived work from Mr. Raduga's Indirect Method, period. It may be similar on surface, but it is sufficiently different from both fundamentals and technical details. In addition, as its creator, I did not have the intention to "clearly wanted to make a name for himself", quoting from this person. Whether in my native Chinese forums or the various western forums where I posted this technique, I have always remained anonymous, using solely my online screen names. Even during some of the online interviews I chose not to reveal my real world identity. Nor have I any vested commercial interests in the subject of lucid dreaming, unlike that of Mr. Raduga.

Having said all that, I will leave you to judge by yourself. The technique is clearly explained (so is Raduga's) so you are welcome to compare them. All of my writings are here and some on LD4all, and they are all there in unaltered form. And if you have questions or doubts, please let me know and I will be happy to answer them, as always.

Cheers

And you are still lying. I've already explained the reasons why and it is not solely the usage of the terminology that I find you suspicious. Here is the evidence of what went on for all to see:

OBE4U.com Forum • View topic - Plagiarism: "SSILD" taken from The Phase Guidebook

The behaviour of a desperate man trying to save face... and his ego. I work with Michael Raduga at the OOBE Research Center and will not tolerate your conduct. How convenient that after all these years you remember to mention the author of indirect techniques and cycling when under questioning by several curious members of various cyber-societies.

Whether it was originally written in Chinese or Japanese, it does not exempt you from suspicion or blame. And to use that as an excuse, or to even skew my reasoning behind it, is suspicious in itself. Any distinctions that you now make between what you and Raduga propound isn't proof of your authorship either. It is very easy to append to what others have put forth before, and worse, to claim to add something new when there is leeway for idiosyncrasies clearly outlined in The Phase Guidebook.

Your earlier versions add nothing new. Your updates aren't something that the School of Out-of-Body Travel has overlooked either.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

And you are still lying. I've already explained the reasons why and it is not solely the usage of the terminology that I find you suspicious. Here is the evidence of what went on for all to see:

OBE4U.com Forum • View topic - Plagiarism: "SSILD" taken from The Phase Guidebook

The behaviour of a desperate man trying to save face... and his ego. I work with Michael Raduga at the OOBE Research Center and will not tolerate your conduct. How convenient that after all these years you remember to mention the author of indirect techniques and cycling when under questioning by several curious members of various cyber-societies.

Whether it was originally written in Chinese or Japanese, it does not exempt you from suspicion or blame. And to use that as an excuse, or to even skew my reasoning behind it, is suspicious in itself. Any distinctions that you now make between what you and Raduga propound isn't proof of your authorship either. It is very easy to append to what others have put forth before, and worse, to claim to add something new when there is leeway for idiosyncrasies clearly outlined in The Phase Guidebook.

Your earlier versions add nothing new. Your updates aren't something that the School of Out-of-Body Travel has overlooked either.

So you have followed me to this thread and indeed you are affiliated with Raduga! You made it appear as if I mentioned Raduga in this thread as an attempt to cover up when under questioning. But the truth is that I was simply answering those questions directly and I made it very clear that despite the similarities on the surface there are fundamental differences. I have given similar explanation when people asked what the differences are between SSILD and WILD, DILDS, MILD, and etc., and should I be blamed for stealing from those as well?

As far as I can see, you made up in your mind that SSILD was stolen from Raduga and is blinded by ignorance and hatred, to the point you choose to ignore my clearly provided evidence and analysis. Your criticism is based entirely on speculation yet you did not heisitate to attack me with some most vicious words. I do not know who is more “desperate?”

In my original text I had a disclaimer saying that people are free to treat SSILD as a new method or a clone of other methods because not everyone is able to see and appreciate some of the subtle differences. So yes you are free to think SSILD is a clone of Raduga's method (and I don't want to even bother to explain it anymore), but calling me liar is simply going too far. It's good you followed me here so people can have a good look at how malicious you, and possibly the "school" you represent, truly are. I still have a lot of respect to Mr. Raduga for his technical excellence but you have brought him nothing but disgrace.

You have simply borrowed another man's ideas and decided to make a name for yourself by popularising a particular method under a different name. And what's with the extra "S" anyway. The fact that you get so defensive under questioning only highlights your culpability. This will haunt you and weigh on your conscience for a long time. You give off all the signs of a plagiarist.

For the record, my egotistical friend, I did not follow you here. I've been a member of this site for a long time. But it is curious that you look your "own" method up online and that has led you to stumble upon my suspicions on OBE4u. Very noble of you to be defamatory straight away without producing one ounce of a good and convincing explanation. Good day, sir.

I don't think it is possible to copyright a state of consciousness...

As a result of this thread I read the first half of "The Phase" yesterday. First of all, the book is excellent. Second, I had been performing some of these techniques for many years. I hadn't thought of the idea of cycling however, which is genius. It seems to me as though SSILD was influenced by it, but I don't see plagiarism. It seems that Mr. Raduga uses the term "Phase" to consolidate lucid dreaming, OBE's and AP under one name without the need for mysticism. If such is the case, would he not want others to adopt the term?

Of course, I may have missed some detail somewhere, but I don't see the techniques as being the same. One could actually use both Raduga's techniques and SSILD together to strengthen the practice. Just my two cents worth.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

You have simply borrowed another man's ideas and decided to make a name for yourself by popularising a particular method under a different name. And what's with the extra "S" anyway. The fact that you get so defensive under questioning only highlights your culpability. This will haunt you and weigh on your conscience for a long time. You give off all the signs of a plagiarist.

For the record, my egotistical friend, I did not follow you here. I've been a member of this site for a long time. But it is curious that you look your "own" method up online and that has led you to stumble upon my suspicions on OBE4u. Very noble of you to be defamatory straight away without producing one ounce of a good and convincing explanation. Good day, sir.

It shows you didn't even bother to go through the SSILD threads carefully because the reason of the double S was clearly explained in the first few pages. I'd expect someone who openly accuse me to such degree at least perform his homework -- study carefully the subject and get some hard evidence. Yet all you have done is throwing flames at me based entirely on suspicion. Now I may be defensive but why shouldn't I? Why should I be blamed for "crime" I did not commit? You sir, are not being reasonable, to say the least.

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw

As a result of this thread I read the first half of "The Phase" yesterday. First of all, the book is excellent. Second, I had been performing some of these techniques for many years. I hadn't thought of the idea of cycling however, which is genius. It seems to me as though SSILD was influenced by it, but I don't see plagiarism. It seems that Mr. Raduga uses the term "Phase" to consolidate lucid dreaming, OBE's and AP under one name without the need for mysticism. If such is the case, would he not want others to adopt the term?

Of course, I may have missed some detail somewhere, but I don't see the techniques as being the same. One could actually use both Raduga's techniques and SSILD together to strengthen the practice. Just my two cents worth.

When I read Raduga's book I thought the use of the word "phase" is a pretty good one. While writing the revised version of the SSILD tutorial, I often needed to refer to this state(s) of consciousness, but I did not want to tie the technique with any particular belief system. As a result I adopted the "phase" term, and in a few occasions even defended it when questioned by a few people. After this incident though I think I'm going to take out this word from all my writings. Nothing against the concept, just some bad taste in the mouth.

As for the cycling, while it may look similar to Raduga's, they are actually entirely different animals. Raduga uses these as a way to actively enter the "phase" (damn I'm using it again), and he makes no distinctions on what you use -- in fact, he has a whole slew of "techniques" for you to choose from in an a la carte fashion including some strange stuff like squeezing the brain. As you can see, these are "techniques" in their own rights, so basically his "cycling" is the rapid chaining of various "techniques".

SSILD, on the other hand, was based on the Buddhism ideology of the "six senses" (thus the name). In my early document I claimed that no one knew why this stuff worked, particularly I was referring to a scientific explanation. The development of the technique though was not an accident. I figured, based on the Buddhism ideology, we might be able to get something to work by stimulating the various senses. It's not scientific, but it doesn't hurt to try! Initially I wanted to stimulate all six senses but that simply was not possible, especially the 6th one, LOL. Therefore I reduced it to the more basic 3, and tried it myself, and what do you know, it actually worked! I showed it to a member of my forum who at the same was struggling to get WILD to work, and within a few days it worked on him too! And that's how this stuff was developed, so no, it was NOT inspired by Raduga's work.

Initially the technique was composed of rather long "stimulations" to the 3 senses, and ask the user to stay awake after performing the stimulations by occasionally glancing the darkness -- this can be seen in the very first version of the English text as well which was under the title "A practical recipe to induce LDs and OBEs". This, of course, had the side effect of causing insomnia for many people. It was then we decided to further reduce the length of each step to the point it became more "cycle"-like. Compare this with Raduga's cycles, we see fundamental differences: 1. Each step of the SSILD cycle is NOT a technique by itself, unlike that of Raduga's. 2. Each cycle is designed to target and only target the 3 senses, nothing else! They are chosen on purpose, not randomly. 3. The aim of the cycles is to fully stimulate the senses, not to succeed in entering a "phase" (now I hate myself). This last item was stressed since day one, and where do you see that mentioned in Raduga's texts? You don't because that's not how he intended his "cycles" to be used for, and that difference is crucial. Summerlander apparently does not understand either sides well enough for that he fails to identify this defining difference.

Anyway, I'm tired of defending myself from this person since it appears that his mind is so fixed on his conspiracy stories beyond reason. I think I've explained myself and the SSILD technique clearly enough so readers have enough materials to make their own judgement call.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Indeed, the cycling in "The Phase" is clearly a different concept in it's immediate purpose; even without all those other arguments. I am familiar with the separation techniques and have tried SSILD recently. To find any real similarity apart from words would be difficult.

There´s no authorship in lucid dreaming, nor even MILD or WILD, except devices like NovaDreamer and so on.

This is as old as humanity. From young children to very old, frail people. Rich and poor.

It´s ok to say this guy is the author of this or that, but in the end it doesn´t matter.

Originally Posted by VagalTone

There´s no authorship in lucid dreaming, nor even MILD or WILD, except devices like NovaDreamer and so on.

This is as old as humanity. From young children to very old, frail people. Rich and poor.

It´s ok to say this guy is the author of this or that, but in the end it doesn´t matter.

Very true. This is also one of the reasons I chose just to remain anonymous. And in fact, in the beginning I didn't even bother to call this a "technique", and instead referred to it as a "recipe".

It seems maybe Summerlander is trying to make a name for himself - wanting to move up in the Raduga empire by playing attack dog? It's really hard to understand why he's so vicious about these attacks. If Raduga is angry about it, maybe he should talk it out with CosmicIron himself, and probably off the board would be a lot more professional, rather than this flame war tactic. All Summerlander is doing is making everyone involved look bad.

Isn't it all about spreading the knowledge and information freely?

Originally Posted by Summerlander

You have simply borrowed another man's ideas and decided to make a name for yourself by popularising a particular method under a different name.

For the record, my egotistical friend, I did not follow you here. I've been a member of this site for a long time.

What do you know. What you are accusing cosmic iron from doing, you are doing yourself. This is a quote from your post, summerlander, from website I will not name. Simple search of the phrase will show anybody interested where it comes from.

Btw, if I post my experiences here, forgive me if the terminology I use slips out. I usually refer to lucid dreams and out-of-body experiences as a sole state of consciousness that I call "the phase".

You don't you say "I use the word 'phase' invented by Raduga." You say you call it that way. So what gives?

And technically, yes, you did follow cosmic iron here. He joined in august and you in october.

So I've tried this method for about two days in a row, and I like it very much so far

Things I've noticed while using SSILD
-Dream recall skyrockets
-I get annoyed because the technique is too suddle(I like to expect something will happen)
-I have a lot of trouble falling asleep after cycles and wbtb(I frequently check for FA's)
-Although it's been taking a while to fall alseep I wake up feeling rested anyway

Some thoughts
I will continue with this technique because I haven't had much luck with the other techniques
and my dream recall has been rather bad lately, and SSILD has improved that, It strange how
this technique works and I notice how it's described as "setting off a time bomb, to go off in your dream"
in the updated guide

I don't really understand that quote and was hoping for some clearification, but I do believe this could be
a great helping hand technique for beginners and I appreciate any input or advice from fellow SSILDers

Thanks,
-EmptyBucket

"You don't you say "I use the word 'phase' invented by Raduga." You say you call it that way. So what gives?"

If that isn't justice I don't know what is. Gab; you're good.

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket

So I've tried this method for about two days in a row, and I like it very much so far

Things I've noticed while using SSILD
-Dream recall skyrockets
-I get annoyed because the technique is too suddle(I like to expect something will happen)
-I have a lot of trouble falling asleep after cycles and wbtb(I frequently check for FA's)
-Although it's been taking a while to fall alseep I wake up feeling rested anyway

Some thoughts
I will continue with this technique because I haven't had much luck with the other techniques
and my dream recall has been rather bad lately, and SSILD has improved that, It strange how
this technique works and I notice how it's described as "setting off a time bomb, to go off in your dream"
in the updated guide

I don't really understand that quote and was hoping for some clearification, but I do believe this could be
a great helping hand technique for beginners and I appreciate any input or advice from fellow SSILDers

Thanks,
-EmptyBucket

SSILD is sort of a hybrid of WILD and DILD techniques. I say that because it is possible for it to cause both types of dreams to happen. However, to use SSILD more effectively we should lean more on the DILD side, and treat WILD as solely a side effect. Now for DILD to happen of course we need to be dreaming/sleeping first. Thus the most important part of SSILD really is how quickly you can fall asleep after performing the exercise. The more quickly you fall asleep, the higher chance you will have at getting a DILD, FA, or suddenly awaken into an OBE (I hate to use this word but I'm now banned to use the other word I preferred, LOL).

Of course there is no guarantee that SSILD will give you a DILD, but at least if you do it right it won't take you too long and you will have many more nights to try. On the other hand if you try too hard and end up not being able to sleep, then you will miss the opportunity of getting a DILD as well as precious sleep! For people who are just starting with this the hardest thing to do is not the technique itself, but "letting go".

Having said all that, I want to add that SSILD is actually not a hit or miss type of technique once you learn it. It is almost guaranteed that after you do it you will run into some sort of FA or semi-FAs which you can utilize to turn into full blown LD experiences. Once you master this part it can give you near 100% success rate.

I hope this helps. Cheers.

Originally Posted by gab

What do you know. What you are accusing cosmic iron from doing, you are doing yourself. This is a quote from your post, summerlander, from website I will not name. Simple search of the phrase will show anybody interested where it comes from.



You don't you say "I use the word 'phase' invented by Raduga." You say you call it that way. So what gives?

And technically, yes, you did follow cosmic iron here. He joined in august and you in october.

Thank you gab. BTW, I did not join in August. In fact I had been on this forum for many more years but after I registered this account my other one got banned and deleted, LOL.

So I tried this a couple of months ago for a couple of weeks, but was more using it as a meditation to get to sleep quickly, which seemed to work I think, but I looked over it again a few days ago and have been using it the last two nights. I haven't got lucidyet, and have run into a couple of problems/questions.

How do I know if I'm concentrating or focusing on my closed eyelids, or if I'm looking at the blackness created by my mind? Or does it matter, along as I'm focusing othe visual?

Next, I don't seem very adept at switching between the cycles, which is strange in itself, as I usually wouldn't have a problem doing that... Does it matter tht it might take a few seconds to stop thinking about the visual, once I've told myself to start thinking about the audio? And connected to this, I still hear the audio when and see th visual etc when performing the other cycles... Is that's problem?.

And finally, when doing it upon waking I tend to get distracted very easily I think, by all the images and the dreamless that form. I do catch Myself and tell myself to return to the start ofthe cycle that I was in, but then Id get distracted easily again. Should I be waking myself up more in this case... And connected, is it a problem to fall asleep while doing the cycles, I did last night I think... From what I can gather this is something akin to a MILD technique, whic wouldn't matter if I fell asleep, but you seem adamant that one should finish the cycles and then sleep and that one shouldnt be doing any other methods with this(is this just during the sleep process, or does that extend to awareness etc during the day?)

Sorry, there was more than I thought, thanks for the tech, it does seem very promising to me. Once I smooth out a few kinks that is