Thread: Tlalocs Workbook

Originally Posted by Tlaloc

my gut feeling is that awareness is a big part not of just recognizing the vibration as a dream sign but is also key to getting it incorporated into the dream in the first place, which is not something I had thought about initially. I realise that by delaying my wbtb I will have less dreaming time left, and any lucidity will probably be less stable, but the idea of being able to increase the likelyhood of an incorporation is quite attractive, and if this fails perhaps the chance of just a normal lucid - kind of like what almost happened this morning (but obviously this morning wasn't actually lucid) might be increased anyway.

Whats up bro! Yes absolutely awareness, I think most of us try for that awareness and vividness in the dreams. This is the spot where the LUCID events are most likely to occur. Your brain has to be in the special place to say... hey something just isn't quite right. Sadly enough it seems like it is usually right on the tail end of a dream. I remember Nyxcc saying you want to be right in the sweet spot where you are asleep but can ask 'hey is that an elephant in the room?' I think 75 percent of my dreams have happened to me when I was able to sleep in or just off my normal sleep schedule. I usually get up at 5 so my mind I think is used to getting up at that time, by 7 if I am still sleeping my awareness really kicks in and this is when I usually go lucid.

Happy dreaming!

Hey 501! good to hear from you! Think you are dead right about the awareness and timing issues - man I'm sorry you have to get up at 5.00 bro! Sounds rough! I get up at 6.20ish but you are absolutely right, if I get the chance to sleep into 7.00ish the chance of going lucid shoots up.

today was a prime example - lucid 34 it happened at 7.20am, only possible because my kids were staying over at my parents at law. I was really, really stoked with this, even though it was absolutely tiny! Partly because it felt like I was breaking a dry spell of sorts, and partly because it took 2 hours of surfing some pretty cool HH to get there, and because it was a WILD - so pretty different from my usual DILD's.

Anyways I'm going to describe the night so I can refer back to it if I need to. No alcohol for once, went to bed at 10.30 so earlier than normal, 6hr wbtb - woke after 5 - amazing how I've become trained to 5 over the last 6 wks that I wake up then even if the silent alarm doesn't go off. Anyways went back to sleep and woke up at 6hrs, so 4.30 and did a vMILD, set the clock for 20mins but as you'll see in a sec it never had the chance to get incorporated into the dream.

I decided I wanted to boost my awareness as per the prev entries so I stayed awake longer, and also as I normally sleep with a sheet over my head I pulled this down, and this had the desired effect in that I became so aware I couldn't get back to sleep easily. I knew by 5.00am that it wasn't too much of a prob as I had probably 2 hrs up my sleeve, but I didn't want to WILD, rather I preferred to try and return to sleep to allow the vibe to get incorporated. It continued to go off every 20mins but I just couldn't quite get there, but the result was some really cool HH and dreamlets and sleep paralysis which came in waves, and like a surfer I'd try and pick up the swell and get lucid and each time the wave would roll past underneath me and I'd have to wait again!

The HH were very cool though, one of the first was almost more of a semilucid - I decided to try something I'd read a day or two ago on DV's and tried imagining myself clapping rhythmically, I did this for only a min or two and then suddenly I was in a car with a female DC who turned to me and said 'Why are you clapping?' and I reply (feeling stupid and trying to make up something to explain) - 'because my hands feel cold!' - and then the dream collapses! How dumb! I should say after this I also ask 'whats your middle name?' to the black but I think the dream has gone into the void by then. The name 'Jamima' comes into my head immediately (the name of a doll on a NZ kids show from the early 80's) but I think my sub-con is saying it rather than the DC (as shes gone into the void), so I don't think I can count it as getting the mthly task done It just shows how quickly our brains are scrambling to come up with explanations in dreams to make sense of the often insensible! But this exchange with the DC really cracked me up! I try the same rhythmic thing with rowing and a dream starts to form but I again wake up as I'm trying to hard to stay alert

The next one was some sleep paralysis pretty intense but cool, followed by a dream in which I started to cross a road but could hardly move my clawed hands due to the SP, as I managed to do this I woke up again....

then more waves of HH....some similar in content - I am trying to operate the electric jug - it doesn't work triggering me to think I'm dreaming and I remember I'm asleep and immediately wake up, a bit later similar thing with a toaster - it won't work, I wake up - I think these are more HH dreamlets than actual dreams - they are so short but intense, almost like visual phrases, probably related to the fact I should be up and having breakfast normally by now.

anyways its now been almost 2 hrs and I feel the REM wanting to come, so I pull the sheet over my head and the HH takes me to seeing roman pottery in a garden plot, I see some shards of different functions/types - a spotted motarium and I instantly dismiss this as a dream, as I know I haven't seen this in real life, I expect the dreamlet to collapse but it doesn't this time - this time (lucid 34) it stays. I see the pottery and am in the garden and I know its a dream, I look at my hand to see the detail, but the dream starts to collapse with a roaring in my ears, it goes black and I try to rub my hands but I can hardly move them, I'm in the void for maybe 30secs trying to unlock my arms and hands but I feel paralysed and slowly I wake up in my bed, my arms are locked around me in a mummy type position so perhaps this also entered my dream as it faded?

So the LD was pretty short but after having lots of HH wash under me I felt I finally caught my wave right at the end of the night and managed to get up and ride it even if only for a short while the ride was pretty cool and it left me buzzing all day!

I was never really asleep until that last WILD to get the vibe in so I don't think I'd call this a vibe nite, although its possible the regular going off of the alarm helped keep me alert.

final thoughts 1. pulling the sheet off my head increased awareness
2. I shifted the IC to the ball of my foot and this felt like it would be novel enough to increase the likely hood of incorporation
3. not drinking the night before helped
4. having a guaranteed sleep in allowed me to keep going at the HH, I have had nights like this before, but they work best when you can keep going to you hit the sweet spot, if this had been a work day I might have been more tired, and there wouldn't have been a lucid at the end as I'd had to have gotten up 1 hr earlier.
5. the rhythmic imagining thing worked pretty well

Final thoughts, the HH were really, really fun! It feel great to escape into another world again - there really is nothing else like it - the randomness of what your going to find is definitely a part of the attraction!

Well pretty cool. I have had maybe a very short successful WILD. I have almost given up on them since they do take so much time and I think it is valuable to get my sleep in.

Its funny you mention the drinking thing. I have pretty much stopped drinking. My wife and I would usually have a few bottles of wine on the weekends every weekend and I have pretty much stopped doing this since the weekends are the times when my lucids are most likely to happen.

Hey T, how have you been doing? Anything new? You've had a pretty good success so far, don't let what you've achieved till now slip away.

No need to post updates often, just remember to keep up the practices as circumstances allow. Take care!

Hi NyxCC - thanks for the post - very thoughtful and much appreciated!

I am still experimenting with the vibe nites - trying diff combos to see what works best. Hanging in there by my fingertips! Will post more once I've got the data together. Hope alls going well for you too! Cheers - T

Waiting for my wife to return from wine club (sigh)...ah the responsibilities of having children eh?!

Not much action to report lucidity wise. Reading some ebook I found on this site about 'The Phase' - sounds errily like some sci-fi film about the next deadly virus - but really is just a broad term for lucidity and its elk - OBE's and near death experiences. It seems pretty thorough with some good advice and a lot of detail. I am starting to worry I am entering into a pretty common error of being one someone who knows a lot about his subject without actually being able to do it well - a sort of lucid armchair traveller.

I am going to try and think of a way to increase my motivation when I wake to do my wbtb's, as this should increase my awareness. I have gotten to the point I am just goin though the motions too much and just wake and then crash back into a deep unaware sleep. Its trying to work out a way I can do this based around the limitiations that I can't get up out of bed due to my wife being a light sleeper, that I don't want to sleep somewhere else and that I don't get lie ins (thanks kids! ). In fact a friends child who was staying with us when they came to visit, came into the lounge where my wife and I were temporarily staying and physically stripped the bed sheets off us in the morning while I was trying to lie in! 'If you're not sick you can't sleep in' was her 3 yr logic!

Previously my awareness was boosted by the novelity of my tech with the vibe nites and the risk I was going to wake my wife increasing anxiety and awareness, but with this becoming routine I find myself just slipping into deeper sleep quickly....any thoughts Nyxcc? I tried a couple of wacky ones (9VOLT battery to tongue, smelling salts). I am almost certain awareness (as in lighter sleep) is the key......

Hey T, great to hear from you!

I am going to try and think of a way to increase my motivation when I wake to do my wbtb's, as this should increase my awareness. I have gotten to the point I am just goin though the motions too much and just wake and then crash back into a deep unaware sleep

Yes, it can be quite difficult to wbtb and try to ld especially if you are extra sleepy. Sometimes the bedsheets feel so comfortable. I constantly need to set new goals for my lds otherwise it's almost like I have no will to ld. Ah, maybe this is a hidden form of lazyness?

Previously my awareness was boosted by the novelity of my tech with the vibe nites and the risk I was going to wake my wife increasing anxiety and awareness, but with this becoming routine I find myself just slipping into deeper sleep quickly....any thoughts Nyxcc? I tried a couple of wacky ones (9VOLT battery to tongue, smelling salts). I am almost certain awareness (as in lighter sleep) is the key......

Do you think that deeper sleep is only due to desensitization and not just you possibly needing more sleep? If you feel like you need an extra rest, then go for it. 9Volt battery on tongue? That sounds scary! For alternatives you may try a cold shower (best avoid head and heart area), legs would be easy (if you're able to escape the bed that is!), a short cold shower may stimulate neuron activity, leaving you more refreshed. Also, daily meditation may help improve focus and awareness even at night. The more benefits would of course come if practiced consistently. Finally, the other thing you may try every once in a while would be light supps (as not to mess up sleep). Depending on the effect, you may experiement with pre bed or wbtb supps like Gingko or lecithin. These enhance dream vividness and recall and may result in somewhat lighter sleep.

As always great advice NyxCC! However tonight I am going to disregard all that (sorry!) and try something really whacky! This may be one of the oddest ideas for inducing a lucid dream and I have no clue if I'll even be able to implement it, let alone get anything near the desired effect.....but its worth a shot just for the novelty factor alone!!!!!

I'll post more about the method (and results if any) once I've had a chance to try it - hopefully tonight all going to plan, but otherwise might be a night or two before I can do it again if I sleep thru my intended wbtb tonight.

ps.....it involves something I plucked from my neighbours 'garden' and stuck in water earlier on....you'll have a good laugh when you work out this one I think NyxCC!!!! Hope your dreamings going well! cheers T

Well, you got me guessing T! I'll list all the stuff I could think of later. I just hope it's not snowdrop - the plant is actually poisonous!

Ok, let's wait and see what you came up with.

.....so....just got back from Accident and Emergency - guess I got your email about the snowdrop thing too late NyxCC....JUST JOKIN!!! (but thanks for the advice anyway!).

Anyways - what I tried was using a rub of stinging nettle against my ankle - I'd been thinking about this for a while and did a 'dry run' during the day a few days ago. The tingling went on for 2.5 hrs after administration against my skin (go histamine and other nasties!) and it resembled the sort of sensation I got from the vibrating clock, but on an ongoing basis, but kind of coming and going so you don't get desensitized to it.

But it didn't work! - at least last night. I'd had to 'harvest' the leaf earlier on, and wrapped it in a wet bit of kitchen towel to preserve it, then put it in a small air tight container and stuffed in my boxers for the nights sleep. Woke up around 5am and rubbed it on my ankle but it was pretty dry (probably from my body temp heating it during the night) it was enough to give me a dull burning tingle but not as much as a fresh leaf would do.

I returned to sleep and tied on the IC for good measure (vibe II, 5 sec vibe, 30min intervals) but by waking at 6.50am had no memory of any incorps. Had some good HH just after waking and dropping back to sleep though of looking at my watch and getting the wrong time, but these were vivid HH dreamlets rather than a lucid dream.

Might try it again though....One of the times I got lucid just after I starting thinking about using a vibrating device (late last year) was through having pins and needles in my leg - this got incorporated into the dream and I got lucid from it, so I figured the stinging nettle might be a way to repeat this. So there some faint logic in my madness!

So I didn't wake up at all with the IC clock set on vibe II and this has happened quite a bit recently, so I am going to increase it to....dah dah.....vibe 3! This is the final setting -the highest it can go, so if that doesn't work ....cue boys to men song 'end of the road'.....it might be the end of the vibe nites project.

If this is the case I think I'll write it up and post on the forum anyway under Lucid Aids - just so others who might be interested in parallel type projects will have a starting point or reference to look at......

back to chores now

Lol, T, I'm relieved to read that you are relatively ok.

I went through all possible herbs, fruits and veggies that you could have gotten - camomile, mint, cherries and even pea (Princess and the Pea story), wondering what kind of mix you will come up with. I briefly thought about nettle too, but couldn't figure any application for it. Well, now I know what to expect! I hope there aren't any hedgehogs running in your neighbor's yard, because I see where this is going!

Hi NyxCC - been awhile! :-) Hope all is well for you and yours! I started to write a post concluding my experiments with the vibe nites but found it wandering off to too long a discussion (more a paper than a post!). Effectively what happened in the end is habituation to the vibrating stimulus, my unconscious brain no longer incorporated the stimuli into the dream, it simply started to ignore it, so I ended up turning the vibration intensity from 1 to the highest 3 and finding it wouldn't even wake me up at all (whereas when I started 5 mths ago, the lowest vibe would wake me up and get incorporated well).

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much I can do to beat this as I've had it turned up to the highest setting and I just sleep through it (I did a whole series of about 15 vibe nites where I changed the duration and intensity to try and get my brain to incorporate the cue without success).

Still its been interesting to do it, if frustrating. I am just in a bit of a limbo trying to work out where to go forward from here.....I am still limited that I can't get out of bed due to the risk of waking my very light sleeping wife, and I get minimal lie in due to my young children....I had thought about trying DIELD and using the sound of the clock under my pillow to wake me without disturbing my wife, but looking at other posts people often complain they become habituated to the alarm noise after a while and it ceases to wake them....maybe I should try WILDing???? I'm kindof thinking of something where you remain conscious might give longer term success compared to what I've experienced which is the opposite - more experience of the vibe lead to innate habituation to the cue leading to less success. Any thoughts? Thanks!!!!!

Hey T!

Regarding the vibe induction, I'm thinking have you tried taking some time off it - a week or two to see if sensitivity returns? Also, I wonder if expectation may be playing a role here. Remember in the beginning you were so excited about the vibe, you started becoming lucid even without it actually being on. And now you are thinking the opposite - that you have become desensitized and it's not working, so you kind of don't expect it to work the same way too. What do you think?

About other options, approximately how much sleep are you getting, do you still wake up naturally, what is the content of your dreams (any dreams in the room, notable dream signs etc.), so that we might think about different strategies. I'm sure we'll be able to come up with something that adds extra ld chances.

Take care!

Hey T!! Do you ever get up at night to go to the bathroom? I have been using an alarm that I put under my pillow to wake me. I get up and WBTB about 30 minutes and use the restroom. My wife is a lighter sleeper than me and I don't think I wake her. But for it to be a good LD for me I need to get at least 8 if not more hours of sleep.

I have been having a decent time with the supps I have been taking but they sometimes tend to cause me to toss and turn.

Good luck brother.

Hi NyxCC! Been awhile between drinks huh!! I got pretty busy after the last posts above, still am in some ways but hoping to fit the LD work around that. I wanted to take some time out after finishing with the vibe nites stuff as well to relax and rethink my approach to LD'ing.

So here we are! I decided to try the mental technique I had some success with above (post 53) and described by Harianago as a rhythmic way to induce LD's (RILD), a WILD technique but preceded by a tiny WBTB so almost crossing the line towards DIELD.

I've tried it 2 times in the last 3 nights, the first I tried clapping as I drifted off, and it worked in that the clapping suddenly became 'real' in that I could 'hear' sounds and feel the force - this startled me as I though I actually had started clapping in bed - so much I woke up from the FA. So success in getting it incorporated into the dream from waking.

Tried again last night but not so successful. But I am keen to keep going on this technique as I feel it suits me (as I got lucid from it before), and being a mental technique (vs EILD) I should find I can improve with practice.

BTW I reckon I sorted out the problem with the vibe nites habituation thing - but have decided to lay off it for the moment to see how this pans out first. I think it will be refreshing to have the change.

Fingers crossed! Hope you're well NyxCC - cheers - T

Hey T! Good to hear from you!

That looks like a promising technique indeed. Looking forward to reading your feedback on it. I know once you set your mind on lding, those awesome lucid dreams will follow.

Hi NyxCC good to hear back from you!
I'm enjoying the technique, I basically try it whenever I wake up at night, either spontaneously, or I've tried it from setting the vibe alarm, but giving myself a night off every few days. I've tried it over I guess 4-5 nights so far? No lucids but some interesting effects which were quite cool.

Twice I've had the visualization of clapping change from visualization to suddenly hearing the sound and feeling the clap (this happens if I initially concentrate on the sensation and repeat it and then drift off and suddenly the fact its 'real' brings me more aware) I presume this is the transition from being awake to being asleep. Unfort this hasn't converted into lucidity - perhaps it will with practice.

The other interesting night was when I had several really vivid dreamlets where I did reality checks with my watch and the time changed or was absurd - this was like being lucid as I knew the results were showing I was asleep but I couldn't develop or expand the dream (almost like being in SP but with visuals) - but I was definitely asleep as I woke up after 3 of these. I am guessing these were some kind of lucid HH, and with my mind focused on LD'ing they were based on them, so I feel I am getting close to the 'real' thing.

anyways I am enjoying it which is the key thing! so will let you know when, or if, I can take it further - cheers - D

Hey T!

Good to see you haven't given up. I was dry for awhile and not on here much and then boom all of a sudden got a fresh wind. I think we are all still working on that perfect technique to get us lucid. Every time I think I have something solid it ends up going flat some how. Still going though!

Twice I've had the visualization of clapping change from visualization to suddenly hearing the sound and feeling the clap (this happens if I initially concentrate on the sensation and repeat it and then drift off and suddenly the fact its 'real' brings me more aware) I presume this is the transition from being awake to being asleep. Unfort this hasn't converted into lucidity - perhaps it will with practice.

The other interesting night was when I had several really vivid dreamlets where I did reality checks with my watch and the time changed or was absurd - this was like being lucid as I knew the results were showing I was asleep but I couldn't develop or expand the dream (almost like being in SP but with visuals) - but I was definitely asleep as I woke up after 3 of these. I am guessing these were some kind of lucid HH, and with my mind focused on LD'ing they were based on them, so I feel I am getting close to the 'real' thing.

Sounds like you are making great progress indeed! Keep up the good work. This thing really is working, I think you are really close to ld and those ld dreamlets - I know what you are talking about. It sometimes happens to me as well if I try to make a specific scene to enter or my mind decides to ld on its own. Keep on trying, you will either at some point transition into a lucid dream or a non-ld will start but your awareness will be boosted so you will get lucid later.

quick update - been continuing with the RILD tech. Last night I added on the ol' mantra 'I'm dreaming' as I clapped to try and retain more awareness - and it helped me to sustain my focus for longer, but I still ended up just falling into non-lucidity.

I am still enjoying the tech a lot though, particularly the clapping part as I keep getting the strange sensation (which is pretty cool) of crossing over from imagining it to 'feelin' it, feeling the slam of my hands together and the sound of the clap, slow deliberate. Its just that almost immediately after that I lose consciousness, and I don't have any obvious vision (that I can recall).

I'm guessing that I must be in a kind of transition zone where I am starting the WILD process but drifting off before its complete, either into REM or NREM. But I'm happy to keep working on it. I think the mantra may help, and if nothing else might help trigger a DILD if its on my mind and I lose the WILD. My recall certainly seems better since I've been doing this, I feel 'on the edge' of going lucid....fingers crossed (and hands clapping! ).

I have been using the "I am dreaming" mantra as well, and it really helps me stay focused, especially if I also count. I say: one, I am dreaming, two, I am dreaming, etc. Without that, I just get lost in the haze.

Hi Dreamingaze and thanks for the post! Its a fine balance isn't it?! I tried using that mantra when I first started LD'ing again about 12 months ago, and found on one night that it took me about 3 hours to get back to sleep after my WBTB, but then I got 3 short consecutive DILDs and one FA out of it in the late morning. I tried it again and found I just couldn't get back to sleep - everytime I'd drift off my brain would shout 'I'm dreaming!' and I'd wake up again, so this time round I am trying to use it more....subtley I guess!

Sivason had a good comment in a thread from a few days ago, he'd count by itself and once he started to lose his place counting he'd then introduce 'I'm dreaming' just to bring his consciousness back then count again, and this is what I'd thought I'd try tonight.

anyways - congrats on your WILD'ing! and good luck with your dreamin and thanks for the comment - cheers and have a great weekend - T

Yep, it's definitely a fine balance! When I first started out using a mantra, it kept me awake also. I got frustrated very quickly because I usually have no trouble falling asleep. Subtle is the way to go, but it can be so hard finding that "sweet spot." I like the idea of using the mantra only when the count starts to drift. I might give that a try.

Happy dreaming. Wishing you much success this weekend!

Just got back from a great family hol in Brittany, France! So a bit of catching up to do...

lucids 35-38 - pretty happy to have got some lucidity again after a 5month spell of not really doing any practice and zero lucidity as a result. Got these four in the last 6 days so I am very happy with the change in frequency! All were pretty short but I am just chuffed to be getting some air time! so in brief

lucid 35 - 4/8, wbtb woke up after 5.30 hrs. Stayed up for 40mins.
I'm dreaming I am at Hadrians wall or an equivalent roman fortification, taking photos. The scene changes so that I can't find it through my camera viewfinder, or in fact can't find the wall anywhere at all! This strikes me as too odd to be real and I become lucid, but within seconds I wake up! Doh!!! I try to DIELD and get very close, I imagine clapping (RILD) and can see some DC's wandering around past me (one in pink) but just can't quiet get myself into the scene and lose it becoming too awake.
After this I get waves and waves of HI and dreamlets with lots of 'almost there' wilds but just can't get in. One really vivid one is seeing myself in a mirror - with me stiking my tongue out like a haka in the mirror (even though I am not doing this in the dreamlet) - almost as if my reflection has its individual consciousness, I am aware this is a dream, but can't get it to continue beyond observing it.

lucid 36 - 8/8 wbtb 6hrs, vibe + new R/C. Lots of HA before I managed to fall asleep again after the wbtb. I am dreaming I am about to an eyetest on a man whose has had laser surgery. I go to grab the trial lenses, when I see the positive and minus lenses have all been mixed up, I am annoyed and think 'damn locums' but then I realise that the colours of the lenses are incorrect, grey and red when they should be red and black - and I realise this MUST be a dream! I grab a lens to do a reality check, the number says +0.37 which is an unusual valve and its swimy, I get excited that I am dreaming and plan to spin around as fast as I can and rub the patients leg (!) to get some tactile stimulation (oh...weird?!! - probably get my registration suspended doin this in real life!). Unfort my excitment causes the dream to collapse and I drop into the void, I try to DIELD thro clapping but it doesn't work

lucid 37 9/8 wbtb 6 hrs - vibe + RC, lucid from a FA.
I am checking the san-disc (mp3 player) after a fake vibe (still had 3 mins to go - thru antipication?) and the equiliser on the screen is going - but my voice says something different, about volume or something and I realise I am dreaming! But awaken very quickly (sigh....)
BUT - this showed I can catch FA with this new technique :-)

as if to prove the point the next lucid was similar

lucid 38 10/8 wbtb 6 hrs vibe + RC lucid from a DEILD FA
the vibe goes off and it interupts a dream I'm having about some roman frescos I didn't know about (which suprised me pleasantly but not enough to make me lucid). Anyway after a second of so of the vibe going off I press the on button on the san disc to do the RC but instead of hearing my voice I hear a 'chirp chirp' like a car alarm! It takes me a second to realise that this means I am dreaming, I've effectively DEILD'd, the vibe has just interupted my sleep enough to allow me to slip back into sleep and the RC has exposed it as a dream. Now I am lucid but instead of doing anything useful I make a huge effort to perform the RC again - and this time with effort I come out of sleep and perform it correctly - showing I am now really awake!
Fascinating but kind of annoying that I wasted the chance.

Anyways that where I am up to...Had to have the last 2 nights off due to travelling, so hopefully will start again in the next couple of nights. The last 3 lucids were all through the same technique (vibes + new R/C idea) which is working well (only done it 3-4 times), making me more alert to the vibe, picking up FA's reinforcing lucidity goals.

Au revoir!