• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




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    Thread: Vaiaphraim's workbook

    1. #1
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      Vaiaphraim's workbook

      Hi! Let me introduce myself a bit - I'm an IT student, and most of my hobbies are related to computers aswell; I also make music and do some sports for a change. I'm a huge fan of sci-fi... be it books, movies or games. I love the concept of discovering superpowers, but that's not even my main motivation.

      My Lucid Dreaming history is short, but reaches way back... As a kid, I used to have very vivid dreams, flying, walking through walls, all the cool stuff. Most of them were non lucid, but I do recall that I wanted to test a theory. I thought that if I would hold an object in my dream and wake up in that moment, I'd retain it after waking up. One day, I dreamed about a gameboy, and forced myself to wake up, so I definitely was lucid in this dream. (However, I had to wait for my birthday to get my gameboy)
      I totally loved dreams, I enjoyed them a lot and wondered, if they were controllable somehow, or just random. I didn't have any sources about the topic at home that time, so I just tried my own methods, such as thinking only about a certain thing/event in order to dream about it. I wasn't really successful, and then... I started to grow up.

      Skipping time ahead for 10 or 15 years, I finished highschool and started to study around that time. I started researching stuff like relaxation techniques, autogenic training, self-hypnosis, things like that. It was quite fun to try these things, but they never lead to any really interesting results. Then one day... probably a month from now, I spent a while on YouTube to watch a few of these TED:Talks. Naturally, I started off with computer science, hopped over to music production, CGI artwork, and whatever stuff I loved to do in my free time. I clicked through the related list, trying to expand my horizon, and ended up watching a talk about Lucid Dreaming. It totally sucked me in. Memories came flowing back, my old plans from my childhood were resurrected... Many of the used terms and techniques were unknown to me, so I continued my search from this point. After reading a couple of tutorials, I ended up here.

      My main motivation is that I'm quite overloaded from PC games, programming and spending so much time staring at the screen. I want to rebalance my sleeping cycles. In theory, it's a positive feedback loop. I'll reduce my gaming times, get to bed earlier, have my share of awesomeness while dreaming, without the limits set by games, wake up fully refreshed and powered up for the day, and even have more time left to spend with my friends.

      So this is it... my workbook. My research lab. A collection of my skills, failures, and improvement. Hello, Dream Views!


      Reality Checks:
      - Nose pinching / breathing under usually impossible conditions (under water, in space, ...)
      - In progress: Creating a "totem", as recommended by a friend

      Dream Signs:
      - Inaccurate size ratios (giant people, ...)
      - Long, high hallways. Tall rooms, with dark wooden walls.

      Short-Term Goals:
      - 'Learn to talk' in a LD [OK]
      - 'Learn to walk' in a LD [OK]
      - Determine REM phases [Pending]
      - Stabilize a LD [OK]
      - Change a LD environment [Partial success - Teleportation]
      - Improve dream recall in general [Improving every day ]


      Long-Term Goals:
      - Experience a successful WILD, total control, total recall
      - Use LDs for adventure and self-exploration, reduce PC gaming

      Regular sleeping times
      Usually around midnight, but I'd rather aim for 22:00 or 23:00, in order to try WBTB while it's still dark outside

      Lucid/Dream Recall History:
      Dream recall to me is random, I might see an advertisement, talk about a topic, and suddenly I'm hit by a total recall from one second to the other.
      If something is missing, I can usually "backtrack" to fill in the gaps. However, most of the times, I don't have a single clue about any dreams I had at all.
      I recently started a dream journal on my smartphone... I lead myself to believe that it helped already, at least a bit.
      If I'm woken up during a dream, I usually remember everything - at least it feels that way.

      Current Technique:
      - WILD / WBTB


      I already read the WILD and WBTB tutorials here, and I know that I'm probably moving way to fast. I can say that I've tried to WILD for about each day of the last two weeks, without any real success. In the last two weeks, I also tried WBTB a couple of times... Times like 3 or 4 AM were not really ideal, since I can't really completely darken my room. I tried that without success.
      However, I got it to work twice: Getting up in the morning (7-8 AM), staying up for an hour, going back to bed lead to almost a stream of LDs.

      Spoiler for Summary of my first LDs after a decade:


      I also noticed a pattern, and recalled that it was quite similar in the past. Moving in my LDs is hard. Extremely hard. It's more as if I was on rails than walking freely. Another thing - I couldn't talk in my dreams. Ever. I can open my mouth, but no sound would come out. Trying to yell wakes me up.

      My short term goals are to get this under control. I want to be able to control my dream body properly, and I'd like to stabilize my LDs so that they last longer than 10-30 seconds. I'd also love to get rid of these "reality" influences, such as the need to swallow, knowing that it's the reality-me.

      Any feedback and tips would be appreciated! Good night
      Last edited by Vaiaphraim; 10-23-2015 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Updated "Dream Signs", "Short-term goals"
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    2. #2
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      Hello Vaiaphraim, welcome to DV and Intro class! Congrats on your recent successes!

      About the hard to move and speak issue, I think perhaps you were not too deep into the dream. In those instances, it's possible that our dream senses are not fully incorporated as the body is in the process of switching between inner and outer senses. Don't worry with more practice you'll be able to be more functional in the dream. Let's see how it goes in the next dreams.

      Enjoy the journey and let us know if you have any questions.
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      Hello Nyx and thanks for the warm welcome! The last nights haven't been lucid, but I have other news.

      I have noticed a tendency to wake up between 5:50 and 6:30 in the morning. At that time, I usually didn't even sleep 7 hours... Also, I know that I woke up either during or immediately after a (non-lucid) dream today.

      Spoiler for Dream 1:


      I woke up, it was fairly bright outside, so I checked the time on my smartphone (~5:50), thinking "So soon, again, really?". I compared the results and found out that I woke up at a similar time the day before. My conclusion would be that one of my REM phases starts around 5:40. I don't recall the dream from yesterday at all, it's totally blank, so it probably ends somewhere before 6:30, followed by a supposedly brief awakening. My personal theory is that my brain wakes me up in order to try WBTB again, hence I remain awake. Naturally - I also did practice my WBTB, but didn't achieve lucidity since my last posting here.

      Spoiler for Dream 2:



      I do have a question now, involving WBTB and the REM phases... If I want to experience a WILD, then I'm supposed to sleep during the REM phase - so isn't it counter productive to wait out the REM, spend an additional hour awake, then go back to sleep?

      What I'm asking is... if I know my REM starts at 5:50, when should I get up for WBTB? Is it 4:50, then hop back right into my 5:50 phase? Or will I somehow induce an additional REM phase, no matter when I spend that one hour awake?
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    4. #4
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      Hey Vaia! Yes, to have a dream in general as well as a lucid dream or wild, you mostly need to be in REM. However, with WILD there is always a little NREM at the beginning, be it a few seconds or even a minute or more. The more experienced lders would be able to navigate even through longer NREM without losing consciousness.

      Anyways, there are two ways to approach wilding when it comes to timing. One would be waking up at any time without any reference to your sleep cycles. This will be easier to do, you either wake up naturally after your REM or set an alarm for any time during the sleep cycle, say after 4-6 hrs of sleep. Then you do your wbtb. The trick with wbtbs is that we do it after a few hours of sleep, so when we do fall consciously asleep while doing wild, the REM cycle is much closer. Another benefit of wbtbs, especially longer ones is that they build up REM, the so-called REM rebound, so after you stay up for a while, you enter REM almost instantly. The other thing is, you never know how long your wild attempt is going to take. Basically, wbtb plus wild alters the sleep cycle a bit for the benefit of the lucid dreamer.

      The second way to try to attempt it, would be to try to time your sleep cycles perfectly. Then ensure that you go to bed at the same time so they are the same every night, then time the alarm around the onset of your REM or the middle and attempt a quick wbtb or wild attempt. You may already see that, first of all, perfect timing is required in such a case, plus a very disciplined approach to pulling off a wild within the desired time frame. So, overall this method may be a bit more demanding, plus you may not have enough time to boost your awareness, i.e. fall asleep more drowsy.

      However, the second method may be still of benefit if you are attempting a DEILD. In such a case auto-snooze alarms or natural wakes can be used to go back in the dream within a short time frame.
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    5. #5
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      Wow... I never knew that there were multiple methods to WBTB. I'll go to bed at the same time as previously, and set my timer to a few minutes before I awoke back then. Since you said, it needs to be done quickly - does that mean I need to get up, stay awake / alert for a short (10 mins? 20 mins?) time? After that I'd head right back immediately after that to hopefully dive into the next REM phase. I'm just re-iterating to make sure I understood what you told me - it's easier to WILD, after staying awake for a longer time (because I get full awareness), while a "quick" version doesn't give me the time to shake off the grogginess properly, so I really need to get myself together to focus.

      One final question - I read a lot about these "auto-snooze" things, as in waking up, without having to turn the phone/alarm off manually. Moving invalidates the Dream Exit method and all.... so... is there any application which offers such functionality which you could recommend? I don't have any special tools, but I'm sure I could write the needed code for my smartphone, if nobody did it already.
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    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vaiaphraim View Post
      Wow... I never knew that there were multiple methods to WBTB. I'll go to bed at the same time as previously, and set my timer to a few minutes before I awoke back then. Since you said, it needs to be done quickly - does that mean I need to get up, stay awake / alert for a short (10 mins? 20 mins?) time? After that I'd head right back immediately after that to hopefully dive into the next REM phase.
      I suggest that you experiment with the amount of time spent with wbtb - see for yourself what is the ideal spot or range of time that boosts your awareness enough, while allowing you to fall asleep within a reasonable time frame after that. Everyone is different, so playing around is the best way to find out.


      I'm just re-iterating to make sure I understood what you told me - it's easier to WILD, after staying awake for a longer time (because I get full awareness), while a "quick" version doesn't give me the time to shake off the grogginess properly, so I really need to get myself together to focus.
      Right. This is the case for most people, however, there are some that are able to pull off a wild with only minimal time spent awake. These are usually the more experienced lders.

      One final question - I read a lot about these "auto-snooze" things, as in waking up, without having to turn the phone/alarm off manually. Moving invalidates the Dream Exit method and all.... so... is there any application which offers such functionality which you could recommend? I don't have any special tools, but I'm sure I could write the needed code for my smartphone, if nobody did it already.
      I don't have the best app, but it works for this purpose. I think it's called "Alarm clock". Pretty simple alarm clock app but it has the option of auto snooze after a few seconds, so you don't need to move. It can then turn on again in say, fifteen mins for another five ten seconds and so on. Others have also used alarms with self recorded audio as well. Instead of an alarm they hear some sort of dreaming cue or mantra. My app doesn't have this, but I'm sure there are other apps that allow for you to record your own audio/voice and use it.
      Last edited by NyxCC; 06-18-2015 at 12:33 AM.
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      Thanks a lot! I'll try the app, experiment with different WBTB times, and report back, once I know more
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      Hey - I'm back and I (finally) have some news

      I tried the app Nyx suggested - or one with similar functionality, since there are TONS of alarm apps available for android systems. I tested out wake pings with a duration of 3-5 seconds at a very low volume. I recall that I did notice them, however, I seem to always move when I wake up... Trying to dive back in immediately didn't work for me yet. However, I'm now fully alert after each REM phase, or so I think. I just wake up every 3-4 hours or so these days, even without alarm.

      I'm also working on my awareness skills, only 10-15 minutes of actively trying per day, but I plan to increase that. It's actually really cool, feeling the air flow, trying to feel the floor through the footwear, the angle of the ground, the consistency. I have no idea, how many people are actually experiencing this, but I doubt that it's a common thing to do...

      One more thing - I noticed that WBTB with a wake duration of one hour is too much. Half an hour seems to work better for me, but I didn't try it often enough to call it a "pattern".

      Finally... I had a LD after a 20 min WBTB at 5:30 AM, it lasted for about 5 mins, and - I actually had total control over it for the first time ever. I could see and move my dream body, and I was able to summon a dream character. Chanting "More clarity" actually worked, too, and simply calling out the name of a person made a DC copy appear immediately. I'm not sure how "deeply" I was dreaming, since I experienced something rather strange this night/morning... I talked to the DC, and... I heard my voice two times. I finally managed to speak in a dream, but I was also talking in my sleep, apparently. I don't know, if I really heard my "real" self talking, or if I just imagined it... still it's a relief that I'm not bound to be mute in my dreams anymore.

      I finally got myself "real" sleep mask, and ear plugs, too. Helps a *lot*, when the sun rises as soon as it does these days, and the birds start to chirp outside.

      I'll further experiment with WBTB, trying to make my control more consistent, maybe putting up a microphone to check, if I actually talk in my dreams, or if it carries over to reality - or both.
      Also, as I said above, I want to improve my awareness times, since it seemed like it helped me, too - and because it's awesome anyway

      I have a question aswell. I also use my breaks in studying to lie down for a few minutes - Sometimes, I have a few fractions of a dream, but usually the time is too short. I wonder, if there's an actual answer to that but - people say that we learn a lot, while we are sleeping. Now, when trying to induce dreams, we're supposed to "look at the thoughts, then let them go", and while dreaming lucidly / actively controlling the dream, isn't it suppressing the brain's capacity? I'm not sure, if I should leave my brain "unattended" to process the stuff, or if I should rather try to induce dreams about the specific topics, or if I can just do whatever I feel like ^_^
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      Nice, congrats on the ld and the excellent dream control!

      I'm not quite sure if I understand your question, do you mean to ask if lucid dreaming interefers with learning? I don't think you need to dream about a specific topic for the information to sink in. Just be sure not to be sleep deprived, especially before exams. As long as you are able to get enough NREMs and REMs you should be ok, no matter what the dream contents. By the way, at the more advanced stages of lucid dreaming - when you get lucid very often there might be some beneifts for learning due enhanced brain capacity, especially by employing Gamma brainwaves responsible for greater concentration. Meditation sessions also help.
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      Thanks a lot, Nyx! I'll keep practicing, searching for more info, and I'll be back, once there are news

      [EDIT] Yes, you did understand me correctly
      Last edited by Vaiaphraim; 06-27-2015 at 10:51 AM.
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      I'm back! Or rather... I finally have something I consider worth posting after all that time...

      I started recently to work on my meditation skills and various relaxation methods. 4-7-8 breathing seems to really make a difference when it comes to clearing the mind and preparing for sleep.

      Apart from that, I got myself a nice hardcover dream journal a few days ago, where I write down date, time, intention, technique and - naturally - the content of my dreams. Ironically, I wrote one double page on the day I started, but since then... I had absolutely no dream recall at all. If I understand correctly, then I'm supposed to make an entry, even if I don't recall - I just hope I won't end up with 100 pages of "Nothing recalled. Again."

      As for lucidity, I only recall a single lucid dream of the last two months. Without going into detail, I tried shapeshifting in front of a mirror, with awesome results. Sadly, the dream was rather unstable (even if I said "more clarity!" again and again), and ended seconds later. I want more


      My favorite methods are still WBTB and napping over the day... I also incorporate reality checks in my daily life routines now, though I never achieved lucidity randomly in a regular dream so far.

      I read that it helps with lucidity, if you activate all senses of the body in your imagination - sight, sound, touch, smell, taste, but also acceleration/gravity, balance and temperature - however, it seems to be really hard to even do one of these at a time.
      I found it easy to trigger salivation when thinking about delicious food, but I have trouble with just about any other simulation of a sense. Gravity and temperature work to some degree, but the hardest part for me is to visualize scenery. I thought that paying attention to my phosphenes would help, but most of the time, I get nothing but a black background. In fact, I hardly have phosphenes at all, unless I stared at an illuminated display or something only seconds before. Very rarely, I can see a clear picture for a split second, which vanishes to nothing even faster than it came. I guess that the "real" visual sense I have at that time and the "imaginative" one are really hard to combine. I really don't think that I'm not creative, so I don't get why I can't get any proper visualization of any scene at all. Any input would be appreciated
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    12. #12
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      Welcome back!

      About the sense activation, any training you do will be useful, i.e. any thoughts or sensations you have will activate brain areas. After a while you will be able to concentrate more, so the sensations will be more intensive. Again, even if you're not getting super vivid images, keep doing it.
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      Hey, DreamViews!

      Short update here - I had a really amazing sequence of LDs (or maybe just an extended single one) last night with the WBTB (two hours before regular wake time, stay up for 15 mins, lay back down).

      I laughed at myself reality checking in my dream even, because I already knew I managed to WILD at that point, I still did it, because I really want to make it a habit to increase my chances of DILD every now and then (no DILDs at all so far). Naturally, the result was positive!

      Spoiler for Dream:


      After an estimated time of one hour, I wake up. I was a bit unhappy about the failed dream control, but felt totally great otherwise. I grabbed my dream diary, and... just couldn't stop writing. I even continued to write during a lecture in university, because I wanted to remember this night. A new personal record in LDing in terms of length, vividness and actual lucidity, and the discovery of teleportation.

      Shapeshifting didn't work this time, but there's no way I'm giving up on that. I mean, I got it to work before, even if it was at a lesser scale. Reminder to myself: There was a mirror the first time. Look for one, if you're trying to shapeshift, if possible!


      So, as most of the time, I again have a few questions - it seems like the deeper I go, the more things I find which I don't know.

      If anyone has an idea how to improve dream control (and complete the TotM), please let me know. I mean, I guess that there are multiple ways to achieve any dream goal, and everyone might require a different approach... Still, there might be "common" methods, maybe? So, assuming the first shapeshift with help of the mirror wasn't just random - how would I find another mirror, if I don't really have total control of my environment? Or even better, how *do* I gain control of my environment?
      I'm somehow imagining that carrying "tools" with me might be helpful, too. Maybe I could train myself to always carry at least a pocket mirror in my dreams?

      Another thing would be the hallway dreamsign... I don't really know what to make of it. It's not really creepy, it's just a plain hallway with a single wooden door at one end (thinking about it, I never checked what would be behind me), having some crystalline non-transparent glass "window" on it. I wonder, if my subconsciousness tries to tell me anything by sending me there randomly.
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      Congrats on the lds Vaiaphraim!

      Concerning your question, there isn't a single formula for dream control. Rather, everybody has their own method of doing and achieving things. Some people would do it directly, by simply thinking or expecting, etc, while others would use some tools like remote controls, phones and so on. You can use both too. I'd say shapeshifting deserves it's own category with regards to dream control as it is obviously a different type of action than, say, summoning or teleporting. And then, it would depend what you are shifting into. I personally find it easier to shift into something of a similar size to a human. For the smaller animals, I would still try to just shift into a large version of the animal and then manipulate my perspective of the world instead. So, as you can see - it's a really personalized solution. The best way to find out what works for you is to experiment.
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      Thanks again for your advice!

      I don't really have much to report, just that I had a few nice recalls thanks to my journal lately, not being lucid, but still cool stuff.

      There's another new thing I tried, which is the forum's IRC chat, which I never really knew existed up to yesterday. I can only say that it's great to hear about the experiences of others, discuss pitfalls, common mistakes, breakthroughs, you name it.
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      Wow, I just realized it's been almost a year since my last update here... I'm not sure how the rules regarding thread-necromancy work here, so I just hope it's not too bad

      Looking at my list of goals, there's not really a lot to add, sadly.

      I did however notice something I couldn't explain before - At some days, I used to wake up seemingly a few seconds before my alarm rang. Since I continued my dream journal, I noticed a pattern... and therefore conclude that 8:30 AM needs to be the end of one of my REM phases. Waking up after a dream would make sense, I just never considered that it might be that close to my alarm time. (I almost thought I had a perfect internal clock, which told me when to wake up - which is much less likely )

      As for lucid dreams... I either had none at all over the last year, or can't remember any. Since July, I put more effort into training that ability again, so I tried my luck with WBTB and afternoon naps - sadly, to no avail. I got quite close to a WILD state twice ('quite close' meaning HIs starting), but never really made it there.

      And finally, something really weird happened this morning... While I was dreaming, many strange things happened. Aliens landed on Earth, and everything was filled with cablecars moving from one skyscraper to the next. I wasn't quite convinced and decided to reality check. I pinched my nose, and couldn't breathe. And, well, somehow concluded that all of it was real. The failed DILD chance bugs me a bit, but at the same time, I think it's the first RC I ever randomly did in a dream, so that should be worth something
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      Hey, good to see you! You can absolutely post here any time - it's your own workbook!
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      Woohoo, I just had my 9th lucid dream!

      I WBTB'ed after staying awake for a fairly long time (~100 mins), and wasn't even in my 'usual' pose. I hardly ever sleep at all when rolled to the side, so when I noticed the swelling noise, I was surprised and super happy at the same time - "Heck yes, here we go!"

      I almost had no control over the dream, sadly - I was floating over a somewhat isometrical landscape, unable to switch to "first person". Still, I enjoyed the images I saw, and I'm hungry for more!
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      Congrats on the ld! It sounds like a cool experience
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      Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.



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      Sound like you had a WILD, congratz! I think ( though always personal ) that the longer the WBTB is, the better the chances of becoming lucid are. Like in your case when you stayed up for more than a hour and a half.
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    21. #21
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      @NyxCC: Trust me, it really was a cool experience

      @Saizaphod: Woo, thanks! I always thought for some reason (probably read it somewhere) that WBTB wake times shouldn't be too long either, since we switch to "awake" internally, which makes it harder to enter a dream. I think I'll experiment a bit more with times beyond the 30-60 minute range, which used to be my standard. It might be different for everyone, but it's good to see that longer times do work for you aswell!
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