A 13 year old Catholic with serious questions

[EdenAshe]

Dear Dream Views, My name is Eden Ashelynn, and I am so excited to be a part of your community, I am a thirteen (soon to be fourteen) year old devout Catholic. I love reading, playing the piano, dancing, shopping, and experimenting with hair, makeup, and nails. I have dabbled in lucid dreaming for a few years, but I have always found myself falling off the dream journaling wagon sooner or later. My biggest concern about lucid dreaming definitley involves my religion. My brother likes to call lucid dreaming "voodo", and my mother isn't a big fan of it either. Being as inexperienced as I am, I joined the forum hoping to get some knowledgeable opinions on the matter. I find the concept of lucid dreaming and dream control really interesting, but would not want to get involved in it if it violates my religion. Also, in my lucid dreaming ventures, I sometimes find myself getting bogged down with all of the different techniques and details I come across. It would be a great help to me if someone would be kind enough to point me in the direction of some good, solid resources. Thank you for taking the time to check out my post. I would love to hear from you. God bless, Eden Ashlynn

[gab]

to DreamViews! I'm sure someone who knows more about Bible will tell you more, but I can say that LDing and OBEs are mention in it, and not in a bad way. Ok, to your second question about techniques. DILD - when you fall asleep, have a regular dream then in it you realize you are dreaming. WILD - when you fall asleep and into a dream without any loss of awareness. These 2 are main techniques and DILD is recommended to start with. http://www.dreamviews.com/introducti...beginners.html http://www.dreamviews.com/welcome/14...ful-links.html Induction Methods and Techniques If you have any questions, just ask. Happy dreams

[ParanoidLlama]

Welcome to Dreamland.

[lunagoddess]

Welcome! That is the first time I've heard of lucid dreaming being viewed that way. It surprises me because everybody dreams, regardless of religion. If dreaming is normal, healthy, and benign then why would lucid dreaming be any different? The definition of lucid is "showing ability to think clearly, especially in the intervals between periods of confusion or insanity." Everyone has experienced this while awake. Think of times when you've had an epiphany or realization. Lucid dreaming is completely natural and does not conflict with any spiritual or religious beliefs, in my opinion. Like most aspects of religion, people are going to have differing opinions and theories; only you can decide what feels right for you. I applaud you for joining the forum to investigate it for yourself in order to make an informed decision. Happy dreaming!

[MobianAngel]

Welcome to the forum!

[AstralMango]

Welcome to DreamViews!

[spellbee2]

Hey EdenAshe, welcome to the forums! As a Christian myself, I definitely had some of those same doubts when I first started lucid dreaming. I still haven't to this day told my parents about lucid dreaming for fear that they'd think it's witchcraft or voodoo or the like. Though I'm nowhere near a theologian, I firmly believe there's nothing wrong with lucid dreaming from a Christian/Catholic viewpoint, but I don't imagine I'll convince my parents otherwise - my dad still thinks rock music is "of the devil". First off, though lucid dreaming is never explicitly mentioned in the Bible, dreams are mentioned a ton - take, for example, pretty much the entire story of Joseph in Genesis, Daniel's ability to interpret dreams in the book of Daniel, or (the other) Joseph's dream telling him to take the Virgin Mary as his wife in the book of Matthew. Throughout the Bible, dreams were often a vessel God used to communicate with his people, and though those divinely-given dreams happen less often (if at all) these days, several people still believe in a deeper, more spiritual meaning to most or all of their dreams. At its core definition, lucid dreaming is just realizing that you are dreaming while you are dreaming - there's obviously nothing wrong or sinful about that. In fact, there are some people that naturally lucid dream, without any effort or influence on their part. So if lucid dreaming is a sin, then there are thousands of people who are sinning beyond their control, which God would not allow (James 1:13). The gray area on whether or not lucid dreaming is sinful boils down to what you do with your lucidity. If you're just looking to see what it feels like to fly, or you want to have some awesome super powers, then that's fine. But obviously if we as Christians (for example) believe that sexual perversion is wrong, then seeking out sexual gratification in our lucid dreams is sinful, even if it's free from direct consequences. Overall, I'd say as long as you set moral boundaries on what you hope to accomplish in your lucids, try your best to stay within those boundaries (knowing that you may unintentionally cross those boundaries due to the unpredictable nature of dreams), and don't let lucid dreaming take priority over your relationship with God, then lucid dreaming is completely compatible with your religious beliefs. As for techniques, the ones gab listed are good for beginners, so I'd definitely check out some of those if I were you. Also, let us know if you have any additional questions, and feel free to stop by the IRC chat if you want.

[EdenAshe]

Just as a disclaimer, I did not mean to offend anyone by what I said in my post, and I really hope I didn't; I was just looking for honest answers. I don't think it's the occasional accidental lucid dreaming that my family thinks is unhealthy. It's trying to really cultivate them. Although you all do make very good points about how realizing you're asleep while you're asleep isn't very much different than knowing when you're awake. I think that the problem my parents have with lucid dreaming really has less to do with lucid dreaming and more to do with all of the other things that go along with it, like Astral projection and such.

[gab]

I'm sure no offense was taken. We are quite open minded and many of us probably experienced some kind of "what the heck" from our friends or families. So we understand when someone is looking for answers and we are happy to help if we can.

[spellbee2]

I think that the problem my parents have with lucid dreaming really has less to do with lucid dreaming and more to do with all of the other things that go along with it, like Astral projection and such. Lucid dreams/Astral Projection/Out-of-Body Experiences are all fairly subjective, so they're mainly what you make of them. If you're expecting a lucid dream, you're going to have lucid dreams. If you're expecting to astral project, you'll astral project. If you're expecting an OBE, you'll have an OBE. There's a definitive line between each of those experiences, but it ultimately comes down to intention. So as long as you stick to lucid dreaming, you won't have to worry about those other things.

[MobianAngel]

Just as a disclaimer, I did not mean to offend anyone by what I said in my post, and I really hope I didn't; I was just looking for honest answers. I don't think it's the occasional accidental lucid dreaming that my family thinks is unhealthy. It's trying to really cultivate them. Although you all do make very good points about how realizing you're asleep while you're asleep isn't very much different than knowing when you're awake. I think that the problem my parents have with lucid dreaming really has less to do with lucid dreaming and more to do with all of the other things that go along with it, like Astral projection and such. I'm not a Christian or part of any religious faith but I'm not offended by your post. Going off from what gab said, even I deal with similar stuff from my own mother when it comes to things like lucid dreaming. So there is that relation there.

[Spock]

to DV, EdenAshe! (your post wasn't offensive in any way!) I'm an atheist, and my whole family is either like me or pretty far from our religious roots (which is not Christianity, by the way). Nevertheless, I totally get what you mean... My mom and several other family members are somewhat superstitious, despite being very far from religious, and view lucid dreaming and dreams in general as "messing with the unknown" and consider it something that you shouldn't mess with or even talk about... My dad is an atheist like me, and is more reasonable in regard to dreaming. But he kinda makes fun of me for being so interested in dreaming - in his opinion it's a useless waste of time, since it's all a fake simulation anyway... So, I think most of us have encountered this from people, and it's just like any other thing, people by their nature like to disagree, argue about stuff, and force their belief on others... I personally see nothing religious or superstitious about dreaming / lucid dreaming / OBEs. All of these are natural processes of the brain to help it figure out how to process reality (by simulating it in a controlled way). As spellbee2 said, if you're religious there might be certain things you shouldn't do if you're lucid, since having lucidity means having some awareness and control over (at least) your actions. For example in a different religion, let's say Judaism, even in a lucid dream you shouldn't pray for other gods / more than one god - since it is something that is forbidden on a belief level. However, stealing (also being forbidden in Judaism) in a lucid dream may be considered fine since it's not actually happening. But maybe certain people will disagree and say that stealing is not fine either, because it might transfer into real life eventually or because it shows the intent to steal in real life... That already boils down to how religious you are and what you believe in. To each their own, as they say...

[xSpidy]

Hello there EdenAshe!!!! I myself and a Christian, a religion/faith very similar to yours. Let me help you on this journey. My grandmother and grandma and aunt have all said it was either evil or it was unnecessary. Dont listen to this. Lucid dreaming will improve you as a person. Keep on trying and practicing. Lucid dreaming is simply your conscious and self-conscious active at the same time. Not Satan influencing your thoughts, thats false. LDing will make you more self aware, which is a great thing. When your brother calls it voodoo, tell him it is simply your self conscious and conscious active at the same time. Do research. Write something out that will help you prove lucid dreaming is a beautiful thing. Boost up your confidence. When you speak, make sure that you know what your talking about and have done research. I hope this helps!!! If you need anything, I've sent a friend request that you can accept and send messages to me. Thanks, and best wishes to you, -xSpidy

[Daniele]

Since I began meditation and lucid dreaming my understanding of religion and it's origins have become clearer in my mind. I now think it's likely that all religions originate from the same truths about the nature of reality and ourselves in relation to it. Before organised religion humans lived in harmony with their environment, including a mental state in harmony with their reality. Once agriculture started and societies developed around it, the ego-self began to dominate and humans moved further away from the natural state. It could be that religion began when individuals rediscovered the natural state and the experiences associated with it (such as being conscious in the unconscious and finding wisdom from within). As MasterMind recently said, the sacred texts were probably the first self-development books. If you read through any of the sacred texts there are many clues that point to the possibility that they were written to help people find the answers within themselves. It could be that they have been re-written, re-interpreted so many times, and influenced by the ego, that their original meaning has become drowned in rules and ritual and the Gods seen as outside of us instead of within. This is just a theory I've been developing through my own experience. There are also books that explore this topic.