Thread: Lucid Dreaming App - Open Beta!

Also, many kudos for toiling over such an app. Great apps like this are few and far between.

Originally Posted by LucidBurner

I found this just the other night before even seeing this thread, but it force closed every time I tried to open it.

Hey LucidBurner, it's sad to hear that the app closes immediately upon opening. Just out of curiocity, do you have a storage card inserted in your phone? In either case, would you be able to run the app 3 more times or so? This way the Android market will send me a crash report, saying what is causing this issue, so it can be timely fixed.

Thank you for the complement!

I flashed my phone the other night and since then the app works great. So no crash report.

Just want to say I had my first lucid dream with this app the other night. Looked at the graph and there was a reminder played just before I had entered the lucid dream gesture.

It's great to hear of your success!

Nice to know that some phones may be at fault, and not the app itself This fills me with hope.

I have a question on this app. I have been using it all of last week, but I don't think the remind is playing. What do I do if the audio file is missing? or am I supposed to download the audio separately? Thanks!

Originally Posted by QuietWhun

I have a question on this app. I have been using it all of last week, but I don't think the remind is playing. What do I do if the audio file is missing? or am I supposed to download the audio separately? Thanks!

You can use an app called "Hi-Q MP3 Recorder" to record your own reminder. It's available free on the android market.

Originally Posted by TeaSea

You can use an app called "Hi-Q MP3 Recorder" to record your own reminder. It's available free on the android market.

Thanks exactly what I needed!

Originally Posted by QuietWhun

Thanks exactly what I needed!

Good, hope the app works for you

hello, could you please upload the apk for me, because apparantly my android does not support market ...

Hi catz,
I put the apk here: Index of /appdata I'll periodically upload new versions there as well.

I've been in the middle of moving to a different state for a job, so I could not work on the app that much.
Still, today I published an updated to V0.7.3.
One of the major features of this update is the ability to upload data from the app to my server. I hope that this data may be processed and the secrets of lucidity unlocked, either by me or some other aspiring sleep researcher.

A couple new features in this release are the addition of a smart timer GUI - now it shows when reminders are scheduled to play, and when the app looks for user events to adjust itself. It's pretty cool, and there are extra checks to make sure the reminder is properly configured.

New users may find the new "quickstart" process a bit easier to deal with than the old interface. Now there are step by step explanations on how to use the app.

I hope you will find this app useful, and please keep the suggestions/feature requests coming!

KUDOS FOR THIS. I can tell a lot of time and work has gone into it. Just started experimenting with it this weekend. I started it up, got up a few times and wrote down some dreams and their times. I must say the logs seemed to be right on the spot. I'm amazed by how much is packed into this.

It definitely has room to grow and i will be doing some testing and posting on my results, suggestions, and questions. First, im going to go back and read through this thread again.

I'm on the original droid. The calibrate worked great and the app seems to run fine.

I love this. I have been digging in a bit and read through the links. I think I've got my head around it, I just want to clarify.

Ok, first my questions:

1-The REM and hypnogram displayed in the history are pre-set defaults, correct? They are not calculated from user data?

2-When you say that smart timer predicts the next REM event, are you meaning that it adjusts the timing you have entered against events? (Like if you set it for 3 hours and then you wake up for 10 minutes, the reminder will actually play 3 hours and 10 minutes later? Does it use activity levels for this or user event entries or both?)

3-A predicted REM event is based on your entries in the config, ie 90 mins and for 10 minutes long (as long as no previous event has shifted these?) During this period does the clock turn blue?

4-Why do the smart timer events look for activity levels? Wouldn't you be in sleep paralysis and NOT moving during an REM episode?


Now my suggestions. I'm approaching this with a "simplest user" type of critique, things that would make it easier for the large number of lazy folks out there to use out of the box:

1-Include a pre-recorded voice reminder. Really, just do it. Anything is better than nothing and the instant most people see they need to download another app and / or record something themselves they are gonna bolt.

2-I'm looking through my graphs. I have to do something else on the phone / the screen goes dark through inactivity / etc. Then when I come back to the app, I have to reload my graph. Could you make it persist instead of going back to the help screen?

3-The clock. Even though I changed my font size to tiny (10%) it still doesn't display the AM / PM correctly. No biggie, but it doesn't look as professional that way. Also, if there was any way to make the clock even darker / off and then when you touch the screen have the brightness ramp up momentarily that would be sweet. In my pitch black room it's still annoyingly bright. I will test it tonight with the smaller font and I have made the clock color red, which is supposed to be better for night vision. If there was a way to set the clock color to a muted gray or blue that might be better too.

4-REM timer config. If there was any way to color an activated event green and a de-activated event red this would make scanning through that list of text a lot easier.

That's all I've thought of for now. These questions and suggestions are in the spirit of improving the app and giving feedback. It is an amazing piece of work and I look forward to getting more acquainted with it!

Ahh yes, i've thought of something else I was wondering.

Once my reminder is triggered, does the event length affect the recording? Like if my recording is a 30min file and the event is 20 minutes long, does it truncate the playing file?
If they reminders are triggered multiple times (by movement for example) will the recordings overlap or start over?

Originally Posted by zhineTech

I love this. I have been digging in a bit and read through the links. I think I've got my head around it, I just want to clarify.

Ok, first my questions:

1-The REM and hypnogram displayed in the history are pre-set defaults, correct? They are not calculated from user data?

2-When you say that smart timer predicts the next REM event, are you meaning that it adjusts the timing you have entered against events? (Like if you set it for 3 hours and then you wake up for 10 minutes, the reminder will actually play 3 hours and 10 minutes later? Does it use activity levels for this or user event entries or both?)

3-A predicted REM event is based on your entries in the config, ie 90 mins and for 10 minutes long (as long as no previous event has shifted these?) During this period does the clock turn blue?

4-Why do the smart timer events look for activity levels? Wouldn't you be in sleep paralysis and NOT moving during an REM episode?


Now my suggestions. I'm approaching this with a "simplest user" type of critique, things that would make it easier for the large number of lazy folks out there to use out of the box:

1-Include a pre-recorded voice reminder. Really, just do it. Anything is better than nothing and the instant most people see they need to download another app and / or record something themselves they are gonna bolt.

2-I'm looking through my graphs. I have to do something else on the phone / the screen goes dark through inactivity / etc. Then when I come back to the app, I have to reload my graph. Could you make it persist instead of going back to the help screen?

3-The clock. Even though I changed my font size to tiny (10%) it still doesn't display the AM / PM correctly. No biggie, but it doesn't look as professional that way. Also, if there was any way to make the clock even darker / off and then when you touch the screen have the brightness ramp up momentarily that would be sweet. In my pitch black room it's still annoyingly bright. I will test it tonight with the smaller font and I have made the clock color red, which is supposed to be better for night vision. If there was a way to set the clock color to a muted gray or blue that might be better too.

4-REM timer config. If there was any way to color an activated event green and a de-activated event red this would make scanning through that list of text a lot easier.

That's all I've thought of for now. These questions and suggestions are in the spirit of improving the app and giving feedback. It is an amazing piece of work and I look forward to getting more acquainted with it!

Hey zhine, thank you for liking the app!

To answer your questions:
1) The hypnogram is a pre-set image, transcribed from a wikipedia article on sleep. It fit very nicely with my data, that's why I left it there. Nothing is calculated from the user data. When I get to look at more graphs, maybe I"ll figure a way to predict events better.

2) You are correct. If you set an event at 1:30, and an event at 3:00, and the first dream you report is at 1:40, the next event will be at 3:10. The App counts user events to either delay or advance the next REM event. The app can also look for low elevated activity within 12 minutes from the start of an REM event and make the event start up to 8 minutes earlier (depends on the calibration settings)

3)Yes, predicted events are based on config unless shifted by previous events or motion. The clock does turn blue.

4)As far as I understand, the body is in atonia during REM. The body is paralyzed. The EMG is at the low. I think there may be involuntary motion associated with brain activity during light sleep. There's a 2-3 minute delay between the sleep being scored and the reminder played (I might've changed that in the latest release, so it plays immidiately), so the reminder *may* be played when the activity has stopped.


As for your suggestions, they are good
1) I added the default alarm as a default reminder. I can guarantee that anything recorded in my voice is not going to help you become lucid Just record something or use it as a reminder, the app even lets you pick some ringtones as a reminder

2) Thank you for the recommendation, I have not caught that, as most of my development time is while the phone is plugged in!

3) Sorry about the clock, that is the limitation of a 7 segment monospace LCD font. A 14 segment monospace LCD font will display AM and PM properly, but I do not have such font. The 14 segment LCD fonts that I do have are not monospace, so they cause the digits to shift with each second passing, which is more annoying You can lower the screen brightness to 1% in preferences (the new default), and set the clock color to very deep blue, it's really dark. As for extra colors, I'm using a pre- built color wheel, which really did not like my modifications, so I left it as is .

4) The version 0.7.3 colors active events as green, inactive events as Red and also shows the reminders if they are properly configured! Check out that feature, it took me quite a long time to get it done


Most of my reminders are 10 seconds long, so I have not tested with longer reminders. The code that I have in place does check if the reminder is playing. If it is, the old recording will stop playing and the new recording will begin.

Just out of curiosity, what are you playing that's 30 minutes long?

thanks for getting back to me. i have version 0.7.1. i will grab the new version today.

Originally Posted by Ev

Hey zhine, thank you for liking the app!

To answer your questions:
1) The hypnogram is a pre-set image, transcribed from a wikipedia article on sleep. It fit very nicely with my data, that's why I left it there. Nothing is calculated from the user data. When I get to look at more graphs, maybe I"ll figure a way to predict events better.

thanks for making it! its an amazing app.

1) the default hypnogram is still useful (in my version it cuts off at around the 6:30 mark,) but a prediction for user REM is ultimately what we are after. i think you could add a simple REM prediction algorithm by looking at the times of dreams and awakenings and then going back by a certain amount of minutes depending on how many hours have progressed.

Originally Posted by Ev

4)As far as I understand, the body is in atonia during REM. The body is paralyzed. The EMG is at the low. I think there may be involuntary motion associated with brain activity during light sleep. There's a 2-3 minute delay between the sleep being scored and the reminder played (I might've changed that in the latest release, so it plays immidiately), so the reminder *may* be played when the activity has stopped.

4) so the "after movement - (DILD, DEILD) setting is attempting to find movement in non-REM sleep then delay the alarm. ok. makes sense.

Originally Posted by Ev

As for your suggestions, they are good
1) I added the default alarm as a default reminder. I can guarantee that anything recorded in my voice is not going to help you become lucid Just record something or use it as a reminder, the app even lets you pick some ringtones as a reminder

1)in my version there is no default alarm set. this suggestion isnt for me, its more for end users. in looking at your market place reviews i see a comment about this twice in just the three most recent reviews. maybe you can have a female friend record something (i feel like a female voice would be ... better). or better yet, get a lovely female oneironaut from the forums here to record one for you!

Originally Posted by Ev

3) Sorry about the clock, that is the limitation of a 7 segment monospace LCD font. A 14 segment monospace LCD font will display AM and PM properly, but I do not have such font. The 14 segment LCD fonts that I do have are not monospace, so they cause the digits to shift with each second passing, which is more annoying You can lower the screen brightness to 1% in preferences (the new default), and set the clock color to very deep blue, it's really dark. As for extra colors, I'm using a pre- built color wheel, which really did not like my modifications, so I left it as is .

No need to be sorry. the font thing is again, pushing for a professional look. i messed with it last night at 1% and it turns out the real brightness issue is coming from the control buttons on the bottom of the phone. they are a bright white. i put a thin strip of fabric over the screen and it seemed to help. i dont think this will affect the readings too much.

Originally Posted by Ev

4) The version 0.7.3 colors active events as green, inactive events as Red and also shows the reminders if they are properly configured! Check out that feature, it took me quite a long time to get it done

4)Sweet! Nice work. I love it when requests are granted even before they are made!

Originally Posted by Ev

Most of my reminders are 10 seconds long, so I have not tested with longer reminders. The code that I have in place does check if the reminder is playing. If it is, the old recording will stop playing and the new recording will begin.

Just out of curiosity, what are you playing that's 30 minutes long?

well, i had this idea that one could record and playback anything starting at a predicted REM cycle. music, audio books, a walk through of a dream scenario, meditative tones, binaurals, etc and see how they affected your dreams and later sleep stages.

if you wanted wider marketplace play you could eventually tout this as more than just a lucid dreaming app. it is a sleep tracker and a timer for delivering any type of audio you want within a specific predicted sleep phase. you could help people with sleep apnea, insomnia, and sleep disorders. you could playback delta wave binaurals during deep sleep. you can teach people spanish in their sleep! etc

just for the record, i dont put a lot of stock in binaural beats for "inducing" lucid dreams, but i do feel they have some kind of effect on your consciousness. also, i know that sleep learning complicated subjects isnt going to happen, but who know if something like hearing spanish while you are asleep may improve your ability to consciously learn it during the day.

*adds these items to research list*

I'm just getting back into LD'ing and saw this app on the marketplace. I was surprised to see you on these forums, very cool! I skimmed this thread (as there's a ton of info) and was just curious, would this be okay to run with a tablet or should I really be using my phone? I have both but would prefer tablet if possible. I will be running the setup soon and I already downloaded the app to submit for science. Awesome job with all of this!

ive been using this the last few days and have had some issues. i did get the latest version.

question: does the lightning flash for the entire time you set the REM period to be? is there a way to escape the lightning? (lol)

ive woken up and the audio reminder is off, but the lightning is still flashing. and it keeps flashing, forever it seems. when thats going on, i cant use any gestures, the phone seems super hot, i have to force close the app, and the reminders are not marked on my graph.

ive been messing with it a bit today by laying it on my desk and setting the first reminder to go off a few minutes later. but it doesnt seem to go off if i set it to 1 or 3 minutes. im going to keep experimenting with it and may simply not use the flashing.

but it seems like it sort of worked, cause i woke up during a dream, but i could not mark it with my gestures.

Hey guys!

There's nothing preventing you from using a tablet. It may respond a bit differently to vibration though. The phone may be a bit more sensitive than the tablet because it is smaller.

As for the lightning, the default duration is 30 seconds, after which it should stop. If it showed for longer, that is a bug, and will have to be fixed. You may escape the lightning by pressing the "back" button on your phone.

As for the reminders not going off after 1 minute, check to see if they show up in the Smart timer gui. If they do, check if they are set to go off "on motion". If so, they won't play for very short reminders. You need to change them to "on event start" or "on "event end"

Hi Ev!

Great app! I bumped in you app while surfing in the app market, that's what made me find this forum. Thanks

I'm still studying the app and seeing how it can help me achieving LDs.

What I wanted to ask is that my graphs during the night show a continuous line of Sleep Episodes. Wasn't I suposed to wake up after dreams? If I don't I can't insert user events when I dream and I can't predict my REMs.
When I start tracking in the morning I see that at the beginning of the graph the Sleep Episode line goes up and then it stays constant until I wake up in the morning for work.

I'll try to get a screenshot here.

Any ideias?

Hey Cephas,
It sounds like the app is not calibrated properly, or the sleep scoring constant is too low, resulting in sleep being scored incorrectly. You can take a screen shot of your graph in main screen> "view graphs" and email it to bugreport at lucid dreaming app dot com !

Hi Ev!

So what must I do?

For calibration I placed my mobile on a flat surface (table) and calibrated for 15min. I don't understand why but I'll try to do it on my bed.

Regarding the Sleep Scoring Constant. I believe this is the "Set Sleep Score Activity Threshold", I have it set for 13 activity counts. What value should I try? After changing this I have to "Override Cole Constant" right?

I can't post screenshots here, I need to be registered for at least 7 days. I'm also sending this to the e-mail you said.

Thank you.

Oh wow this would be really cool on the iPhone. Great work!