Thread: Datura and the Dream

How well does it improve your dreaming? Does this allow you to lucid each night?

Good point, relying on external products to get lucid isn't a good idea either.. I'm probably going to try this plant out sooner or later nonetheless, I'm really curious to what it will do to my mind. How does it compare to salvia divinorum? And what did this plant teach you?

http://images.google.com/imgres? http://www.wingsofnature.com/photos/...g2_itemId=1750 http://research.famsi.org/botany/upl...les/datura.pdf http://www.shroomery.org/forums/show...Number/8304047 http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/jims001.htm http://ernestartist.org/AngelTrumpet01.htm http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/900...Datura-FAQ.txt http://www.ejournal.unam.mx/bot/061-01/BOT61104.pdf http://www.wadsworth.com/religion_d/...ls/datura.html http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0703.htm#Datura http://unabridged-blogowitz.blogspot...mson-weed.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura http://www.erowid.org/plants/datura/datura.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Entheogens http://www.angelfire.com/indie/anna_jones1/datura.html http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=DAWR2 http://books.google.com/books?ct=result&q=datura+dreams
http://2bnthewild.com/plants/H266.htm http://artsci.wustl.edu/~gjfritz/Dat...um%20.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=rUn...um=6&ct=result
http://books.google.com/books?id=vxA...sult#PPA262,M1
http://www.gcrg.org/bqr/6-1/datura.htm
http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/psyche...ura174524.html

anyway heres a few of psych effects of datura

Psychological- Audio Hallucinations, non-Pseudo-Hallucinations, Excitement, Delirium, Incoherent speech, Apparent insanity. Euphoria, Disturbed Vision, Stimulation, Anxiety, Extreme Disorientation, Loss of memory, Loss of space and time, Sensitivity to light and noise, Dream States, Loss of body control, Vertigo, Astral travel to familiar places, Delirium in sleep, Hyperpyrexia, light headedness, unprevoked laughter, anxiety, Intensified dreams, Blurring of lines between theta and delta stages of sleep(dreaming and waking times), wobbling legs, Leaning of body towards ground, Invalid Depth Perception, Out-of-body experiences, Deminsional traveling, Encounters with people who aren't there(Primarily Past Friends or Relatives), Melting into objects, Becoming "One with the universe", Feelings of alientation, Intoxication, Aphrodisiac, Amnesia, Confussion, Sluggish Thinking Physical- Convulsions, High blood pressure, Dry Mouth, Dry nasal cavaties, Flushing and Redness of skin, Pupil dilation, Nausea, Headache, Vomiting, Rapid Pulse, Elevated Temperature, Coma, Dehydration, Cardiac Failure, Seizures, Mydriasis, Tachycardia, Urinary Retention, Pressure in the head

by the way heres a forum for those interested in Entheogens @ edot http://www.entheogen.com/forum/index.php
and another http://www.shroomery.org/

You're doin' it again mate. Don't double, triple post.

Anyway, Chayba, Basically it doesn't compare to Salvia. The only common thing would be the dissociation I would say. But wait for someone more experienced to answer.

Tommo, why be so critical of Diablero Brujo while he's only adding helpfull, relevant information? Information that helps keep uninformed spiritual seekers from harming themselves and others using Datura. Be gratefull.

Originally Posted by tommo

You're doin' it again mate. Don't double, triple post.

Yeah indeed mate, don't double triple post, you will break the forums!! LOL.

Originally Posted by DiableroBrujo

chayba u still here?

Now I am.. thanks for the links, thats a lot of information on datura.. after reading all that I will probably spontanously start to have a datura trip right away=P

Originally Posted by SKA

Tommo, why be so critical of Diablero Brujo while he's only adding helpfull, relevant information? Information that helps keep uninformed spiritual seekers from harming themselves and others using Datura. Be gratefull.

I'm not, I know it came across that way. He has some good info. However I did ask a question before and he completely ignored it and went on his way posting these large sums of (copy + pasted?) info. That coupled with the multiple postings annoyed me.

That's okay Tommo after 43 years of life i get over things rather quickly..
As for ignoring you i didn't do it intentionally. Was trying to pull stuff from multitude of links and other saved docs i had at the time. Plus i'm married and a working fella so i sometimes click and shoot from hip... when i'm strapped for time.... I get only so many hours in the day. This week i'm free to do what i want and i'll be on here a bit more often. I generally don't participate in forums. I'm kinda a loner ie introvert (see MBTI INTP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbti and http://similarminds.com/jung/intp.html

if you ask the question again i'll try to answer it or direct you to someone who can.. i'll be off and on today. Right now i'm researching Ayahusca http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ayah...ca_info3.shtml another entheogen used in central america.. i'm trying to make a brew similiar using texas native plant species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychonaut
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_quests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_shamanism

I just asked this.... (copy and pasted)
What are these other plants the Shamans add?
Because you said something about medicine men or shamans, I can't remember, adding certain plants to the Datura brew.
Just wondering if you knew.

Also I'm quitting cigs right now so that may be why I seem pissed over little things.

Also, I've seen that INTP thing lol I went to a forum about it.
Amazing how similar those people are to me.
There was a topic about how you could kill someone and get away with it.
That's good to see because I think about things like this, not that I'd carry it out but yeah. Guess it's just what introverts do.

EDIT: Holy cow o.0
That's me to a T.
loner, more interested in intellectual pursuits than relationships or family, wrestles with the meaninglessness of existence, likes esoteric things, disorganized, messy, likes science fiction, can be lonely, observer, private, can't describe feelings easily, detached, likes solitude, not revealing, unemotional, rule breaker, avoidant, familiar with the darkside, skeptical, acts without consulting others, does not think they are weird but others do, socially uncomfortable, abrupt, fantasy prone, does not like happy people, appreciates strangeness, frequently loses things, acts without planning, guarded, not punctual, more likely to support marijuana legalization(does anyone know why this is so?), not prone to compromise, hard to persuade, relies on mind more than on others, calm
Actually INFP is pretty spot on as well. Meh whatever.

Sorry for the off-topic

You guys should really try to rely on other sites for experiences than erowid. Erowid is terrible for experiences even though some are legit, a lot are completely fake and hard to believe. But, aside from the experience vaults, erowid is an excellent site to check out different chemicals and their effects.

The "other" plants depend on which mixture your talking about.. in the carlos castenada entry we can only guess. the natives of central and south america making ayahuasca or Yaje use a wide variety of other plants including Datura. http://www.erowid.org/plants/brugman...ugmansia.shtml

You planning on brewing up something or what? i bet in australia u have several varieties of plants that can be used to substitute if you can locate them such as acacia trees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acacia http://www.erowid.org/plants/acacia/acacia.shtml http://www.erowid.org/plants/
in texas theres several acacia http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=7160 personally i like catspaw.

Myers Briggs online test http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp to determine Jungian personality type

yes erowid has at times a few negative experiences over positive. alot of them are hilarious. i was reading one the other day and nearly fell out of my chair from laughing. i've studied entheogens for nearly 25 years though not recreationally see ego death http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death and psychonaut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychonaut to understand more fully.

i read others experiences to compare notes. i 've a lot of experiences from age 18-43 to compare... i'll be in & out tonight...

No no, I was talking about the Datura brew. You said they add something to counteract the negative effects.

I'm just asking coz I'm curious lol. Yeh we have a heap of things we can use in Aus. A lot of Acacias. Plus I have a secret little nursery for all my needs lol

Ah Tommo, Really? Acacia's just what I've been looking for, but with little luck here in Holland. Over there in Australia they are invasive. Say could you harvest some foliage/bark and airmail it to me?

I perform magical transformations on such plant material ^^


ANYWAYZ, back ontopic:
I'm having a pretty good dreamrecall again lately, after a REALLY long dryspell/nonexistant dreamrecall. So I think I'll give Datura another try tonight.

I will eat 3 seeds right before bedtime and wash it away with some Tea.

Sure, I could send you some. I'll have to see if I can identify it 100% for you though. I'll be able to get around to all that probably tomorrow or the day after. So I'll PM you after that.

you really in Holland SKA?.. Lucky Devil you.... lol

Holland http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v12n2/12239hus.pdf I think I go back to school after reading that and major in what field sounds fun... lol

funny business in holland http://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/defau...g=posts&t=1555

By the way SKA u ever hear of Seior? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seid_(shamanic_magic)
It has been suggested that during seances the seiðkona would enter a state of trance in which her soul was supposed to "become discorporeal", "take the likeness of an animal", "travel through space", and so on. This state of trance may have been achieved through any of several methods: entheogens, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, for instance. To galdra, that is, the chanting of galdrar was also involved in creating the state of trance.

From following one of those links I found they are banning smoking in Holland? Or already have?
It's funny "It's a bit like saying to someone you can go into a cafe and you can buy a beer, but you can't drink it there - you'll have to stick to whisky, rum and vodka," said Paul Wilhelm, owner of De Tweede Kamer
"It's absurd. In other countries they look to see whether you have marijuana in your cigarette, here they'll look to see if you've got cigarette in your marijuana."

Luckily, being the creative, tolerant people that they are, they just use other herbs now and some shops set up smoking rooms if you've got tobacco in your joint. Very good.

They've banned smoking in public indoor places. However I haven't come across a coffeeshop in which they don't allow smoking yet. So I'm still smoking joints, drawing in my blackbook and getting skyhigh in coffeeshops.

They've recently banned the Magic Mushroom here though. At least the public sale of them. People who grow mushrooms for personal use won't be prosecuted.

How come they decided to do that? Ban mushrooms.

I'll take massive amounts of shrooms or LSD any day, but Datura scares the crap out of me. Not because of it the trip it produces, but because of it's toxicity. In my opinion, it's not worth it. Plus the high can last 48 hours!

Unlike most drugs that fit certain receptors in your brain, which triggers the release your body's natural highs, datura goes to work directly on your nervous system. You just know that can't be good!

Here's an old news clip I saw on TV years ago. Just retarded how they show every kid in america how to get high from common ditch weeds. You have to see how messed up those kids are halfway through the clip. (That same week I saw another news report that showed how to steal a certain make of car)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u12SZAyMp54

My advice is if you're even considering doing Datura, just find yourself some DMT instead. It's even more abundant in the ditches than Datura is. Not that I'm trying to endorse people doing DMT, it's just that I really don't think people should be messing around with the Deadly Nightshade family.

Also called Belladonna, because women would use it to give themselves dialated pupils, which was considered a sign or arousal and done make themselves more attractive. The things women do to make themselves pretty...

I also read somewhere that it had something to do with the origins of the witch's broomstick. They would put it on, a broom stick I guess, and get it into their systems vaginally. And that's how the stereotype of witches riding broomsticks was born. I'm not kidding, I seriously read that somewhere.

Datura can be absorbed through the skin easily, when mixed with something greasy.

I'd never even heard of this plant- wow what rock have I been living under? I thought it a little hypocritical when some one said that certain drugs were stupid or people were a waste for taking them - (that isn't a direct quote of course) but then are okaying the use of something else mind altering. I've been down the road of using things to "alter my perception of reality" or "to see more clearly" while it was a lot of fun at times I'm not sure there was anything genuine to the experience such as actually becoming more enlightened. I don't believe that I was anything more than messed up on what ever it was that I was taking and I've done hallucinatory substances. I'm not condemning those who wish to do this but I'm not condoning it either. I have watched my life and the lives of people I care about disintegrate because their urge to lose contact with reality became stronger than their urge to live in the moment and take care of themselves and their families. Basically I was just saying that I thought is is weird to say: "well that drug over there that's just wrong and stupid and your going to screw yourself up with that! But this one here that I'm taking it's cool and it's natural and it's okay because I know what I'm doing." Thousands of people that "know what they are doing" die or fry their braincells everyday because in reality we don't know for sure how any chemical will react inside of us until we take it and then it's a gamble that we hopefully come out on top of. I think it is a 50/50 chance every time you take something foreign and chemical whether it is natural or not for what ever reason that it's going to be safe. Not unless your a chemist who can see the breakdown of every single part of that drug and have done controlled testing or something. I just feel they are more dangerous than helpful when it comes to recreation.

Originally Posted by shannyball

I'd never even heard of this plant- wow what rock have I been living under? I thought it a little hypocritical when some one said that certain drugs were stupid or people were a waste for taking them - (that isn't a direct quote of course) but then are okaying the use of something else mind altering. I've been down the road of using things to "alter my perception of reality" or "to see more clearly" while it was a lot of fun at times I'm not sure there was anything genuine to the experience such as actually becoming more enlightened. I don't believe that I was anything more than messed up on what ever it was that I was taking and I've done hallucinatory substances. I'm not condemning those who wish to do this but I'm not condoning it either. I have watched my life and the lives of people I care about disintegrate because their urge to lose contact with reality became stronger than their urge to live in the moment and take care of themselves and their families. Basically I was just saying that I thought is is weird to say: "well that drug over there that's just wrong and stupid and your going to screw yourself up with that! But this one here that I'm taking it's cool and it's natural and it's okay because I know what I'm doing." Thousands of people that "know what they are doing" die or fry their braincells everyday because in reality we don't know for sure how any chemical will react inside of us until we take it and then it's a gamble that we hopefully come out on top of. I think it is a 50/50 chance every time you take something foreign and chemical whether it is natural or not for what ever reason that it's going to be safe. Not unless your a chemist who can see the breakdown of every single part of that drug and have done controlled testing or something. I just feel they are more dangerous than helpful when it comes to recreation.

Your view of this is so black and white. You say you find it backwards if someone says "this drug here will fuck you up, but this one here will enlighten you and do you good", but that is only so because you lump all drugs together, generalise them and then label them alltogether with your judgement of "substances that fuck you up". Because actually that is exactly the truth: Some drugs are toxic, some are not, some are highly toxic, others are lowly toxic, some are addictive some are not. And yes: Some will only help fucking you up, mind & body, while others enrich you spiritually and strengthen you physically. Peyote gives spiritual insight, while at the same time killing all parasites in you, cleansing your Body. The Same goes for Ayahuasca.
I personally HAVE gotten alot of therapeutical insights from psychedelic experiences, most notably Psilocybe Mushrooms and LSD. If you haven't then that is your personal experience. Be carefull with making judgements and don't assume your personal experience is standard for everyone.
Also there are alot of medical facts known about drugs such as LSD and Psilocybin(mushrooms). There is data available concerning toxicity and it is well known scientific fact that LSD, Psilocybin, DMT, Salvia, Cannabis and most other Psychedelics are all less toxic than a Cup of coffee. So if you DARE drink a cup of coffee, but say you find psychedelics harmfull and ashaming, then your judgement is clearly irrational.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I'll take massive amounts of shrooms or LSD any day, but Datura scares the crap out of me. Not because of it the trip it produces, but because of it's toxicity. In my opinion, it's not worth it. Plus the high can last 48 hours!

Unlike most drugs that fit certain receptors in your brain, which triggers the release your body's natural highs, datura goes to work directly on your nervous system. You just know that can't be good!

Here's an old news clip I saw on TV years ago. Just retarded how they show every kid in america how to get high from common ditch weeds. You have to see how messed up those kids are halfway through the clip. (That same week I saw another news report that showed how to steal a certain make of car)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u12SZAyMp54

My advice is if you're even considering doing Datura, just find yourself some DMT instead. It's even more abundant in the ditches than Datura is. Not that I'm trying to endorse people doing DMT, it's just that I really don't think people should be messing around with the Deadly Nightshade family.

Also called Belladonna, because women would use it to give themselves dialated pupils, which was considered a sign or arousal and done make themselves more attractive. The things women do to make themselves pretty...

I also read somewhere that it had something to do with the origins of the witch's broomstick. They would put it on, a broom stick I guess, and get it into their systems vaginally. And that's how the stereotype of witches riding broomsticks was born. I'm not kidding, I seriously read that somewhere.

Datura can be absorbed through the skin easily, when mixed with something greasy.

Yeah that's how witches flew to the Sabbath meeting. They would make a Datura ointment, smear it on the end of a broomstick and insert it vaginally, where the mucus membrane would absorb the alkaloids really fast. To the physical eye the witches coud be seen quietly lying in bed or in a chair, while their spirits were searing through the skies traveling to the Sabbath meeting/communion.

Datura is nothing to fuck with.

And I will repeat this caution till the end of times:
IF anyone intends to ingest Datura for Dream enhancing purposes, Take the seeds and never take more than 5, as 15 seeds is the lowest dose I've read about that still was able to produce a very nasty, fullblown delirium. Recommended is 2 to 5 seeds before sleep, allthough I have found 3 seeds to already give a noticable "altered" sensation. Nothing more than a strange sensation, no trip, no hallucinations....But never eat more than 5 seeds.

I'd like to say that I am sorry for frustrating anyone, but I am not sorry for saying that I think ingesting chemicals to trip is safe either. I am only sharing what I know and my standard only is for myself -I quote myself -"I'm not condemning those who wish to do this but I'm not condoning it either." It is only my personal feelings that this can be a dangerous way to search for deeper spirituality. Why do you feel that you must fight to change my mind? Or charge me that I find these things shameful? Harmful - yes they could be, not mushrooms though some may be I have never found them to be but this one substance that started this whole topic -"Datura" it seems not a worthwhile risk to take. I am not ashamed, I have experimented in the past and I am ashamed of nothing I saw that some of it was fun and interesting and some of it was devastating how can I be ashamed of what I have learned from. I am not. You seem very angry and defensive we do not have to agree, my point isn't in making anything look bad- I want people to be careful and consider first what may happen before they decide to take a substance to induce some sort of experience. I think what really bothered me was that the names of substances and amounts that should be taken and doses are being discussed openly. When very young people who might not think things through could take what is said for total factual information and do it because they saw it on here. I find that dangerous and worrisome because we are all supposed to be adults and I am not one for censoring I just was a little shocked. I saw post after post of how to do it, what it's called, practically a handbook. I am done, I am sorry if offended those who choose to practice this and I guess I shouldn't have kept reading when I felt funny about it.

Terrance Mckenna once commented that if you do less than 5 grams of shrooms your missing the point. The idea being that what prevents ego death http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death is not taking the full ride. I've been there and agree. It's only scary to the ego. That thing that refuses to let go. That part that thinks all the time and comments on EVERYTHING and basically never shuts up. That part that lets fear conquer and destroy. It's that idea of who you think u are. It's who society thinks you "should" be and you eventually become hypnotized to believe is the real you. It's the you of habits and traits some of which no longer help you but hinder you in your lifes purpose whatever that may be. If you don't go all the way into the void u never reach it (The journey demands resolve. A determination to conquer your fear else be conquered by it. Willingness to trust in the intelligence of the universe)
You won't physically die though metaphorically u will (great changes will emerge in your psyche, your perspective and outlook on life, you'll see the world anew as though a childs eyes. Unless one becomes as these children one will not see Heaven.. If u try to control the fear and refuse to surrender to the experience then when u come back from whatever minor journey u took you won't have changed; ie metamorphed from a caterpillar to a butterfly. You must be crucified and reborn in the image of the Eternal Logos. Or as shamans say "You must die the little death from which no other deaths follow."

The idea as well is not to do it entheogens everyday. Hell i haven't done entheogens to seek that GOD for a long while.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen An entheogen ("God inside us"),, is a psychoactive substance used in a religious or shamanic context. EGO fights like hell to remain the same but the idea is to take the hero journey ie monomyth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth Also when taking this trip your not hanging out with friends and going places. You basically want to lock yourself in a safe place and turn off all external distractions. ie TV, radio, clocks, etc. You wanna close your eyes and go inside. Inside is where the journey lies not out in the normal world. You basically enter that world you normally goto in dream but this time your fully awake. You will have to conquer your fear. Be confident that many thousands have gone before you on this journey and be rest assured that you like them will survive and emerge a better you. Every ritual in life confers growth whether it's walking across a stage with a diploma or getting married. the old self(ego) must die.. old ways of thinking. old ways of acting will not suit us in this new world to which we embark. when i became a man I put away the ways of childhood. When i got married i put away the ways of the single life. We all change and grow. To refuse the call to change confers agony and suffering. Taxes are not guaranteed, nor is prison, happiness, poverty or wealth.. The only thing guaranteed in life is change. You can choose to accept it and flow with it else be ran down by it. The choosen is yours....

DH Lawrence said it best - Are you willing to be sponged out, erased, cancelled, made nothing? Are you willing to be made nothing?
Dipped into oblivion? If not, you will never really change.......

You don't even need drugs to do the journey. You can sacrifice the EGO in a dream and emerge in the same manner. Next time you get attacked in a dream. Rather than fight (that's your EGO response) surrender yourself to assailant with joy in your heart. Know that in being torn apart it is but your dream body. A creation of mind & EGO. I guarantee if you do this and allow yourself to be torn asunder soon afterwards all kinds of helpers & healers will arrive in dream to reconstruct you a new body for the new life you embrace. If you fully surrender and allow this you'll die to your old thought pattern ways and be reborn anew. guarantee you won't see the world as a dead wasteland thereafter. You'll see the Eternal light of creation everywhere in all creatures of mother earth.

Think u can or think u can't ... either way your right... - Henry ford
Do you seriously think you will see the Gates of the Eternal Paradise without first passing through the Deserts of hell... Old Sufi saying

Would you suggest a breakthrough dose for a first timer?

Originally Posted by shannyball

I think what really bothered me was that the names of substances and amounts that should be taken and doses are being discussed openly. When very young people who might not think things through could take what is said for total factual information and do it because they saw it on here. I find that dangerous and worrisome because we are all supposed to be adults and I am not one for censoring I just was a little shocked. I saw post after post of how to do it, what it's called, practically a handbook. I am done, I am sorry if offended those who choose to practice this and I guess I shouldn't have kept reading when I felt funny about it.

This is much safer then them finding out about it from the news or something, saying, really? that plant in my yard makes you hallucinate? Sahweet!
Also you have to be 15 to go on these forums. Which means you should have some sort of intelligence. If not, they die for the sake of evolution. Good riddance.
Also you didn't offend anyone, it's just that we don't want shit being spread similar to government propaganda. 50/50 chance? cummon man.