Thread: Split consciousness and two selves within a lucid dream?

I recently experienced two things like this in terms of feeling a split, but instead of recounting it all again and without context, I could drop some links to relevant posts I've made about it if you like? I'll have to go looking for them in my post history, so do let me know either way.

So, in any case I think I will say here that my experience was a bit different in that it wasn't my own voice, but I guess I'd say I'm also open to accepting that a "less conscious" part (a grossly over-simplified term) of me might be able to communicate directly with me, even if the experiences came as complete surprises, because I didn't ever believe I would experience something like this, not until I became some sort of strange dream hermit or something equally unlikely, which incidentally hasn't happened.

Anyway, I'd say that whatever you think sounds about right for yourself, is most likely going to be what is right; after all, you (as a whole person) are the only one in your own head and my experience or thoughts won't change that, you'll literally have a better feel about it than anyone outside of you possibly could.

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

I recently experienced two things like this in terms of feeling a split, but instead of recounting it all again and without context, I could drop some links to relevant posts I've made about it if you like? I'll have to go looking for them in my post history, so do let me know either way

Thanks for your message. I’m intrigued. if you do happen to find those links I would be Interested in reading them.

Though I can’t recall how the voice sounded it just felt like It was mine. I can only think that sensation of a split comes when the conscious waking Memory clashes and merges with the dreaming mind.

I had this happen to me with one of my lucid dreams. In it, I had wandered away from a party and upon wanting to return, a voice in my head convinced me otherwise. It felt both separate in the way that I couldn't identify myself with it, yet familiar in that it was definitely my voice talking to me, although my presence was most definitely within my dream body and not, that disembodied voice. And there was something about this voice that made it so trustworthy. I listened until it convinced me that it was all a dream, but once lucid the voice was gone. I never thought anything of it and chalked it up to the usual quirkiness of dreams.

The thing is, the mind has a way of playing with perspectives in a dream. Consider how sometimes the situation reverses and you become that disembodied voice or presence that watches or listens to a dream character that represents your very self. This happens many times during my non-lucid dreams. Sometimes I occupy the dream in mind alone, and while not participating directly with what's happening, I can observe a different me, a more visceral me, that lives and experiences the dream. Both are different and feel very personal. It's like I exist two times within the dream.

At times I think it is the mind expressing all this daytime practice into the dream. Today it is a voice inside your head that guides you, tomorrow it is a dream character, and the rest may all come through your own reasoning. Still, there was something to this voice that made it stand out. Usually whatever message the dream is trying to convey (e.g. that it is a dream) is a lot harder to grasp, unlike this voice which was more upfront about things, more direct. Could it be that the frankness of this voice in your dream made it a lot more personal to you, in a way for it to stick out among other dreams? Say, would you've felt the same if it was another dream character referencing the same things like this voice, without necessarily speaking to you directly?

Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

Thanks for your message. I’m intrigued. if you do happen to find those links I would be Interested in reading them.

Though I can’t recall how the voice sounded it just felt like It was mine. I can only think that sensation of a split comes when the conscious waking Memory clashes and merges with the dreaming mind.

Sorry for the delay but I haven't really had a proper chance until now to actually look. I think I want to put something together like a map, for myself, about some of these topics but I haven't made the time for it yet, but it would have also made it easier to find the links.

I'll keep this short by putting below the links, followed by quotes of the more relevant bits for this thread.

Most recent lucid where this happened:

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

(...) Then, out of nowhere, I heard a deep echoing voice. It told me "You must kill your brother, remember?". Some less conscious part of me, replied automatically "I know, I know! But not now." Before I could add anything of my own will, the voice spoke again to the effect of "Very well, he shall be kept alive for now." The voice faded completely and I simply finished by again automatically saying "Good."

I didn't appreciate this family-related intrusion into my lucidity but realised it was from a deeper part and so didn't really wish to alter it. (...)

Visualisation where this kind of happened:

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

(...) I did become verbally engaged with a creature that had the form I wanted. (...) As all of this happened, he was talking to me, as me, but not me, in a way sort of as you describe, not directly part of my conscious process, so I just allowed him to speak freely. (...) and at this point I was having some doubts about something and he insisted that I stop having these doubts, or he would crush my neck, also, starting to do so lightly as a brief example of what he was going to do (...)

Originally Posted by Silence11

At times I think it is the mind expressing all this daytime practice into the dream. Today it is a voice inside your head that guides you, tomorrow it is a dream character, and the rest may all come through your own reasoning. Still, there was something to this voice that made it stand out. Usually whatever message the dream is trying to convey (e.g. that it is a dream) is a lot harder to grasp, unlike this voice which was more upfront about things, more direct. Could it be that the frankness of this voice in your dream made it a lot more personal to you, in a way for it to stick out among other dreams? Say, would you've felt the same if it was another dream character referencing the same things like this voice, without necessarily speaking to you directly?

Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing. I never doubted the voice was my own in the dream. It felt like me, it spoke like me and I felt it was inside my head and only I could hear it but it felt separate in the way that I didn’t control it or feel like I was forming the words it spoke. That is why I consider it separate from say a DC talking to me as they feel separate physically and I can’t hear what they’re thinking (though I’ve never tried!) I personally think it is caused by how I speak to myself In my head before sleep. When my eyes are shut and the lights are out I usually start making a plan in my head and talking to myself as I plan out what I’m going to do tonight and how I will achieve my goals. “I’m going to wake up and remember my dreams”, “I need to remember to look out for dream signs” I may tell myself. I also do this during WBTBs as well and it feels like that inner monologue sometimes comes back during the dream unexpectedly and takes the form of a guiding voice when really it is just my waking self crossing over with the dream version of me who is in his own little world of thought which creates the split feeling. It explains why I experienced it during a DEILD attempt when my mind was so close to waking awareness and was talking me through the plan as I would do if fully awake.

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

Most recent lucid where this happened:


Visualisation where this kind of happened:

Thanks for taking the time to find these. Very interesting experiences and they sound different To the voices I have encountered which feel more like my own voice guiding my dreaming self. The voices you heard really do sound like they’re coming from somewhere deeper. I have yet to encounter voices like these though what causes them may be similar. How do you interpret them?

Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

Thanks for taking the time to find these. Very interesting experiences and they sound different To the voices I have encountered which feel more like my own voice guiding my dreaming self. The voices you heard really do sound like they’re coming from somewhere deeper. I have yet to encounter voices like these though what causes them may be similar. How do you interpret them?

I think the source could indeed be similar.

I'm not sure what you're asking when you ask about how I interpret them; could you expand on the question? I can think of a few reasons for these voices to be different from the typical voice I hear when I'm saying things in my head. But I can also think of very specific reasons for these specific instances I have experienced. For me it all likely ties together though.

Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

I'm not sure what you're asking when you ask about how I interpret them; could you expand on the question?.

I Just meant what do you see the voices as and do you think they’re something deeper then just a voice in your head?

Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

I Just meant what do you see the voices as and do you think they’re something deeper then just a voice in your head?

Tried to keep this "short"...

Yes, I think they are something deeper in a sense, but I don't think they are a complete "mystery" to me, although the recent experiences did change my previous expectations about the topic of communicating with the "subconscious" and such like. I previously did assume that a direct communication or encounter with "subconscious" wouldn't be possible or would require a strict degree of training. I do definitely see them as a part of me as a whole person.

But also partly as a result of my experiences, I now consider there to be a much fuzzier line between what is "conscious" and its so-called opposites.

I have known about a "subconscious" from a very young age, since my mother was always pretty open about these types of things, but I now wonder if the typical idea of these things having a hard separating line had created a bias in me that needn't exist. I suppose that now, in a way, I realised that it feels very arbitrary to me, the whole conscious/subconscious dichotomy.

There are some unknowns about the voices, sure; I think the unknowns are in a tacit sort of category. I know things about them that I sort of can't explain to myself or others. But far more clearly, I can mostly link why they are there in the first place, in the way they are, to other things in my life. To be more specific, the voice questioning me about my brother was probably a reference to a series of dreams I had as a child, relating to one of my siblings. I have had thoughts on and off about those dreams for years, and when I first had them I took them a bit more literally and also asked my mother for her opinion at times, if I recall correctly. The voice of the creature from my visualisation was a more literal avatar of some aspects of my personality and it also referenced, in some way, some of my earliest semi-lucid experiences and certain desires relating to form and appearance.

I think my mind does take things more literally on some levels and there are a lot of underlying processes and thought patterns that have no "conscious" voice but which I certainly acknowledge to exist within me. And I don't think this is special in itself, as I imagine everyone works that way to some degree. If there were any difference between me and others, it would only be that I may have just noticed it more than some, but I'd also guess that many people here are more likely to notice their own workings of their deep inner processes, since we also seem to naturally question things about reality and how things work around here.

At the end of the day, I think there are a lot of interesting things to explore on these subjects, at least in terms of personal journeys we can have. But their significance, like with any interpretation of dreams and the like, I think can be mostly left to each person, as our life experience may play a significant role in this whole matter.