Thread: if you could get away with anything

i would do everything I'm not supposed to do... That human nature I think.

Oh, and I would make this one specific person crazy by moving things in his house and making him hear things... hehe...

Originally Posted by Captain Sleepalot

Yeah you can, it's called lucid dreaming.

But then if you steal something or whatever, it's only you imagining you did it, you didn't actually
Think.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

This is a blanket statement with nothing to back it up.... I do it because I understand that harming others is wrong, I learned that from my parents if anyone not society... The society I grew up in is less than pure...

Your parents were raised and conditioned by society. They are part of society. You learned your moral values through your parents, and therefore, society. Had you grown up somewhere else in the world, born to different parents, then they would have raised you differently, as they would have been a part of a different society.

Many people live in the "jungle" and don't steal.

I'm talking if you grew up alone in the jungle, with no one to care for you. Now I ask: if you had this miserable existence and stumbled upon a small village with a fruit stand sitting out, would you honestly not steal from it? Would there be any twinge of guilt at all? The answer is probably "no."

I don't know why people seem to think society is the main cause of our morals, when it's only a secondary source compared to your parentals.. And we must not forget no matter what morals we acquired from our parents, or from society.. many people break away from what would be expected for their life.. Otherwise no one would ever convert to other religions, no one would murder except those who were never taught that killing is wrong, yet I believe some serial killers or murderers have come from what could be viewed as a healthier moral standpoint.

Parents and society are one in the same. Your parents are very likely to pick up a lot of values from society in general, and their past parents. People do learn to break away on some level, but for the most part, morals stick with you. When your parents raise you to know the difference between right and wrong, they are conditioning a part of your brain. This conditioning is very hard to undo.

Originally Posted by Soros

You cannot possibly know how you would react in such a situation where you would find your self freed from the consequences of your actions.

But alas, I do know how I would react for it is my brain, and I know how it works a lot better than you do.

Originally Posted by TheLucid

But alas, I do know how I would react for it is my brain, and I know how it works a lot better than you do.

I don't how you would react either, all I'm saying is that its easy to say you would be an invisible robin hood but when actually faced with the situation you would probably react differently given the temptation and knowledge that you would incur no consequences to any of your actions.

If you were invisible for a year or so lets say, in that time you would be presented with thousands if not hundreds of thousands of tempting situations.

All you have to do is let your will falter once. Without the knowledge and pressure of societal condemnation and punishment I'm willing to bet that eventually your self righteous facade would crumble and you would give in to temptation like all humans would. However, that said there is no telling how one would react, all i can do is make an educated guess.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Your parents were raised and conditioned by society. They are part of society. You learned your moral values through your parents, and therefore, society. Had you grown up somewhere else in the world, born to different parents, then they would have raised you differently, as they would have been a part of a different society.

My parents were raised by their parents actually, society did not "raise" them as you said. Society has some role, but you seem to think it's the driving factor. It's not. Little quips and quirks in differences between cultures are caused by the society you grew up in, but generally speaking your most important qualities are learned from your parents.. not from strangers.

I'm talking if you grew up alone in the jungle, with no one to care for you. Now I ask: if you had this miserable existence and stumbled upon a small village with a fruit stand sitting out, would you honestly not steal from it? Would there be any twinge of guilt at all? The answer is probably "no."

How would you know you are even stealing? If you have never had contact with other humans?

Parents and society are one in the same.

This is blatant nonsense. Parents are a part of society, but all of society is not your parent. This makes no sense, you seem to be grasping.

Your parents are very likely to pick up a lot of values from society in general, and their past parents.

Likely, but not for sure.. nor the main source..

People do learn to break away on some level, but for the most part, morals stick with you. When your parents raise you to know the difference between right and wrong, they are conditioning a part of your brain. This conditioning is very hard to undo.

And it's the parents, as I said.. not society that conditions you. I'm not saying society as a whole has no part, but it is minuscule compared to the direct involvement of your parents.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

My parents were raised by their parents actually, society did not "raise" them as you said. Society has some role, but you seem to think it's the driving factor. It's not. Little quips and quirks in differences between cultures are caused by the society you grew up in, but generally speaking your most important qualities are learned from your parents.. not from strangers.

How would you know you are even stealing? If you have never had contact with other humans?

This is blatant nonsense. Parents are a part of society, but all of society is not your parent. This makes no sense, you seem to be grasping.

Likely, but not for sure.. nor the main source..

And it's the parents, as I said.. not society that conditions you. I'm not saying society as a whole has no part, but it is minuscule compared to the direct involvement of your parents.

You seem to be missing the point...your parents are extremely likely to hold the same general values that society holds, therefore, you are more or less conditioned by society, albeit indirectly. At some level, your parents must conform to society, or else they would be social outcasts. The degree to which they conform will vary, but in general, the vast majority of the population has parents that go with the grain and do what is expected of them by society.

And really, do you honestly think humans have some sort of innate sense of morality? You basically proved that they don't when you pointed out that stealing would come perfectly naturally to a person not raised in society and not raised to have certain moral values. While the human mind may have an area or areas set aside for moral conditioning, it cannot decide what is right and what is wrong without being told that first. This it the main point in my argument. Morality is conditioned behavior.

An invisibility ring can't stop time.

Sigh.

Originally Posted by Mario92

You seem to be missing the point...your parents are extremely likely to hold the same general values that society holds, therefore, you are more or less conditioned by society, albeit indirectly. At some level, your parents must conform to society, or else they would be social outcasts. The degree to which they conform will vary, but in general, the vast majority of the population has parents that go with the grain and do what is expected of them by society.

And really, do you honestly think humans have some sort of innate sense of morality? You basically proved that they don't when you pointed out that stealing would come perfectly naturally to a person not raised in society and not raised to have certain moral values. While the human mind may have an area or areas set aside for moral conditioning, it cannot decide what is right and what is wrong without being told that first. This it the main point in my argument. Morality is conditioned behavior.

My point was never that we have an innate sense of morality. Morality is a tough subject with many factors, one perhaps being something inside of us... I'm not willing to write it off.. because good people come from evil people, and vice versa.. You seem to think I am arguing.. we know just enough about how we come to our values. But much is still unknown, or not delved in deep enough yet.


If society only indirectly causes our morals, than one can easily be "manipulated" or totally sidestep society's influence.. so as I said... parents are the most important influence on our morals.. Whether they got some of their values from society at some point I understand, but it's my point that no one but our parents(whoever raises us) has more influence.

P.S. My point was that even if it is described as stealing a "feral" child would most likely have no clue other humans even exist, let alone that he stole when it's just placed somewhere. But would this feral child if he ran into another human try to murder? That seems to be a better judge on if any morals come from us innately.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

If society only indirectly causes our morals, than one can easily be "manipulated" or totally sidestep society's influence.. so as I said... parents are the most important influence on our morals.. Whether they got some of their values from society at some point I understand, but it's my point that no one but our parents(whoever raises us) has more influence.

Our parents may indeed be more effective at implanting moral beliefs and attitudes, but it is society that ultimately enforces these beliefs. When you get out into the real world, your parents are no longer there to keep you in line. Why don't you steal? Because society sees it fit to punish those who steal.

P.S. My point was that even if it is described as stealing a "feral" child would most likely have no clue other humans even exist, let alone that he stole when it's just placed somewhere. But would this feral child if he ran into another human try to murder? That seems to be a better judge on if any morals come from us innately.

I beg to differ. If the child saw no reason to kill, it would not. If the other human being posed a thread to the child, though, I would expect murder.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Our parents may indeed be more effective at implanting moral beliefs and attitudes, but it is society that ultimately enforces these beliefs. When you get out into the real world, your parents are no longer there to keep you in line. Why don't you steal? Because society sees it fit to punish those who steal.

That is not true, I don't steal because it's taking someone else's belongings... and many do steal.... So society seems to have little impact..

I beg to differ. If the child saw no reason to kill, it would not. If the other human being posed a thread to the child, though, I would expect murder.

Than explain why their are serial killers who've probably grown up surrounded by morals and yet... kill for fun.

Yet you wouldn't expect this child without morals to be docile, and instead just take an apple to feed one of it's hierarchy of needs?

Their are many places morals come from, the ones that we are born with, the ones that are imposed on us by our parents, and the ones imposed by society.

That is not true, I don't steal because it's taking someone else's belongings... and many do steal.... So society seems to have little impact..

Those who steal do so because they think they can get away with it, combined with a lack of morality. But seriously...you must admit, the societal consequences of getting caught certainly deter you, don't they? I mean, you're looked down upon by your peers, people lose all trust and respect in you, and so forth. The consequences imposed by society are far more reaching than simple institutional punishment.

Than explain why their are serial killers who've probably grown up surrounded by morals and yet... kill for fun.

People flip out. They alienate themselves from society. There are all sorts of reasons people go crazy. Check out the Unabomber. He went ballistic, and there are all sorts of psychological reasons to explain this.

Yet you wouldn't expect this child without morals to be docile, and instead just take an apple to feed one of it's hierarchy of needs?

Not sure where you're going with this, but...path of least resistance. Why engage someone in a battle to the death if there is no threat or harm? Even a feral child could figure this out. If the fight-or-flight mentality were to be tripped one way or another, and if the child were to have no escape, I would very much think the child would go ape on the offender.

Their are many places morals come from, the ones that we are born with, the ones that are imposed on us by our parents, and the ones imposed by society.

Society and our parents are the two big ones. Parents tell us what's right and wrong, while society enforces these. And as of yet, I fail to see any convincing arguments to show that people are simply born with a set of moral beliefs. Looking over the vast array of cultures and moral systems on the planet, I don't see how any consistent set of beliefs could evolve to the point where it becomes instinct.

We did something similar to this in my AP Psych class, although there was no magic invisibility ring, just absolute assurance that we would never be detected. Here's the list I came up with:

1. I'd watch Jude Law masturbate.
2. I'd steal a plane and fly it back to a deserted island.
3. I'd disable all the nuclear weapons/atomic weapons/weapons of mass destruction in the world, by breaking into the databases that contain this information.
4. I'd get liposuction to be a size 2.
5. I'd go to my favorite restaurant and buy all the desserts and eat them all. After all, I can just get the resulting fat sucked out.
6. I'd stow away on a space shuttle with a certain boy. Then, I'd have sex with him in zero gravity after we got to the space station.
7. I'd find a huge, blank wall and paint a mural on it, after stealing the paints and supplies from Michael's.
8. I'd go to Florence and touch all the Renaissance art.
9. I'd kiss strangers.
10. I'd go skinny-dipping.

If one had this much power their id or shadow would take over and ones main prioties would be : sex, violence and robbery

Originally Posted by lovelyrita

We did something similar to this in my AP Psych class, although there was no magic invisibility ring, just absolute assurance that we would never be detected. Here's the list I came up with:

1. I'd watch Jude Law masturbate.
2. I'd steal a plane and fly it back to a deserted island.
3. I'd disable all the nuclear weapons/atomic weapons/weapons of mass destruction in the world, by breaking into the databases that contain this information.
4. I'd get liposuction to be a size 2.
5. I'd go to my favorite restaurant and buy all the desserts and eat them all. After all, I can just get the resulting fat sucked out.
6. I'd stow away on a space shuttle with a certain boy. Then, I'd have sex with him in zero gravity after we got to the space station.
7. I'd find a huge, blank wall and paint a mural on it, after stealing the paints and supplies from Michael's.
8. I'd go to Florence and touch all the Renaissance art.
9. I'd kiss strangers.
10. I'd go skinny-dipping.

Very nice list!

I'd probably just gather supplies and live separated from the rest of the world for a couple decades.... I mean i'm not gonna get caught doing what i'm doing so i'd live my life how i want to, growing what i want to grow, eating what i want to eat. I'd have a free life.

My perfect crime

Originally Posted by lovelyrita

We did something similar to this in my AP Psych class, although there was no magic invisibility ring, just absolute assurance that we would never be detected. Here's the list I came up with:

1. I'd watch Jude Law masturbate.
2. I'd steal a plane and fly it back to a deserted island.
3. I'd disable all the nuclear weapons/atomic weapons/weapons of mass destruction in the world, by breaking into the databases that contain this information.
4. I'd get liposuction to be a size 2.
5. I'd go to my favorite restaurant and buy all the desserts and eat them all. After all, I can just get the resulting fat sucked out.
6. I'd stow away on a space shuttle with a certain boy. Then, I'd have sex with him in zero gravity after we got to the space station.
7. I'd find a huge, blank wall and paint a mural on it, after stealing the paints and supplies from Michael's.
8. I'd go to Florence and touch all the Renaissance art.
9. I'd kiss strangers.
10. I'd go skinny-dipping.

i want to have zero gravity sex

Originally Posted by Mario92

Those who steal do so because they think they can get away with it, combined with a lack of morality. But seriously...you must admit, the societal consequences of getting caught certainly deter you, don't they? I mean, you're looked down upon by your peers, people lose all trust and respect in you, and so forth. The consequences imposed by society are far more reaching than simple institutional punishment.

I'm actually quite confident in my ability to snag something without someone noticing, I do it quite often to "fuck" with friends of mine.. like yank their wallet out of their back pocket etc... But I won't steal, regardless of my chances of getting caught. It's wrong to take what others have worked hard for. I honestly could careless what people think about me, I do things I know are right.

People flip out. They alienate themselves from society. There are all sorts of reasons people go crazy. Check out the Unabomber. He went ballistic, and there are all sorts of psychological reasons to explain this.

So than morals really don't matter, nearly as much as our psychological state? So really what we learn or assimilate would be thrown out the window the moment we enter an odd mental state.

Not sure where you're going with this, but...path of least resistance. Why engage someone in a battle to the death if there is no threat or harm? Even a feral child could figure this out. If the fight-or-flight mentality were to be tripped one way or another, and if the child were to have no escape, I would very much think the child would go ape on the offender.

Why not eat the person, I'm sure this feral child can use a good slow catching meal. After all he'd have no morals.... Why would the fight or flight get tripped upon seeing a human.. Not enough detail is given.

Society and our parents are the two big ones. Parents tell us what's right and wrong, while society enforces these. And as of yet, I fail to see any convincing arguments to show that people are simply born with a set of moral beliefs. Looking over the vast array of cultures and moral systems on the planet, I don't see how any consistent set of beliefs could evolve to the point where it becomes instinct.

You obviously didn't look very hard... I hardly doubt we are really born without any moral compass.. I believe it may be small, and obviously lots of moral beliefs are taught/learned/assimilated much later.
It would be hard to figure out if this moral compass is their before our learning, especially since our original urgings could really get lost in the years of learning the morals that we acquire.

I'd murder someone...

isn't that what you made this thread for, to uncover the sick fucks at DV?

Seriously, I don't know what I'd do. I'd probably just do the same shit as always execpt maybe steal a shitload of money and kill all freemasons/illuminati

excluding, i presume, anything outside the laws of physics...

i'd definately burst into song and dance spontaneously in public whenever i felt the need, in the hopes others would join in. because i think the social world is lacking in that department.

and somehow finagle it so that i always won the lottery...at least until people stopped wasting their money on it, that is.

single-handedly change a slew of laws.

then become an international master of disguise...for a multitude of reasons.

and never work a conventional job again.

Originally Posted by TheLucid

But then if you steal something or whatever, it's only you imagining you did it, you didn't actually
Think.

Given that this is an exercise in imagination, I fail to see how that matters.

If there were no real world consequences (as far as "getting away with anything") under this scenario, it would be exactly like a lucid dream.

There's no difference.