Thread: Any christians here?

Originally Posted by Sensei

In Turkey, 50% of the people in the Church were actually converted through a dream, before anyone had told them about Jesus.

Care to link?

Originally Posted by Sensei

Catholics, add some books that we don't think are Cannon, but what do they think about Jesus? Died for our sins, and rose again. Sounds good. Some of them put stock in the legalistic side and not in Christ, but all denominations will have people that miss the point because they were not trusting in Jesus, but in their works

I would be willing to bet that if you asked your pastor if Catholics are "Christians", he/she would probably tell you no, regardless of what the Catholics think about Jesus. My guess is that your church wouldn't be able to get passed the whole "worshipping" of saints, engraven images, the pope, the transfiguration of the host, purgatory - basically major, fundamental issues that are completely at odds with their beliefs. If your church is anything like Calvary Chapel, I don't believe that they would be as forgiving or lenient as you are portraying them to be. Have you ever presented these views to your pastor or others in your church? Just curious.

Originally Posted by Sensei

To be born again is to be a Christian. Many people call hardcore Christians born again.

Not really. Born Again has a specific doctrine rooted in Protestantism, though Born Again is technically considered to be non-denominational. And I know for a fact that the vast majority of Catholics would never refer to themselves like this. However, they do call themselves Christians. I am not trying to split hairs here, but this first point isn't even close to being accurate. I think you just think this, which is fair enough. But I doubt you would have much support inside of your community when you pastor finds out you think this.

I do agree that some people call "hardcore" Christians "Born Again". But this term usually comes from non-Christians who are being derogatory when comparing the intense and open style of someone's Christian belief rather than any kind of doctrine they would follow. So.... yeah.

Originally Posted by Sensei

We believe in God the Father
We believe in Jesus Christ
We believe in the Holy Spirit
And He's given us new life
We believe in the crucifixion
We believe that He conquered death
We believe in the resurrection
And He's coming back again.
In a simple way^^

Basically a modified version of the Nicene Creed....

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten not made,
of one substance with the Father,
through Whom all things came into existence,
Who because of us men and because of our salvation came down from the heavens,
and was incarnate from the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became man,
and was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried,
and rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures
and ascended to heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father,
and will come again with glory to judge living and dead,
of Whose kingdom there will be no end;
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and life-giver,
Who proceeds from the Father,
Who with the Father and the Son is together worshipped and together glorified,
Who spoke through the prophets;
in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church.
We confess one baptism to the remission of sins;
we look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen

^^ The hard way Catholics memorize this and recite it at every mass! Point... Catholics! j/k

My guess is that "And He's given us new life" is what makes this patently "Born Again". Just a thought when I was comparing the two. I think it is interesting that you added this (or that that is how it was taught to you - either way... interesting).

Originally Posted by Sensei

Why the need for trying to get everyone to the right exact same doctrine? I do not quite know. If you look at Calvary Chapel, they do not try to get believers from other churches, but we try to fulfill the great commission and teach our own the correct way.

So how could the Catholics be right if your way is the "correct" way? How could the Lutherans, the Episcopalians, the Methodists, etc... be right if your way is the "correct way"? I really don't understand why you wrote that given all the other things you've written. True, Catholics, specifically, do believe in Jesus; that he is the only son of God; that he sacrificed himself for our sins; that he was resurrected on the third day; that only through Jesus are you redeemed and saved because you believe. If I am following you correctly, you are saying that THIS is the "correct" way. But man... Catholics do a lot of things that I am positive that your brand of Christianity would consider blasphemous. If so, don't Catholics need saving given the "great commission"? And if so, wouldn't that directly violate your non-pilfering from other churches statement?

Really... I am not trying to be argumentative. I am really trying to follow what you are saying and what you are writing is confusing me. Did you mean to write "correct way"? If so... why did you write that in the light of all you said in your previous post? Do you know anything about the other brands of Christianity specifically or are you only versed in your own (not that this is a bad thing, but maybe... expected)? How much searching have you done before you arrived at your conclusion that your church is THE church? I am just curious.

Balban:



Sensei flies his faith-plane blindly and autonomously from his church anyway. I challenged him, if he was sure, really sure about LDing being permitted by his church. And he was not. Just quite sure. But he wouldn't ask his elders for fear of their answer, and he prefers to just go on as if nobody had raised the issue.
While it is obviously a part of his faith, that people gain revelations of immense magnitude in their dreams (Turkey - I'd like a link as well) - he holds the opinion, that it might be ignorance would get the better of him, when he asks. Really??
Doesn't sound as if they had no opinion on dreams and their supernatural potential!
I just very much doubt, they would be delighted at his sexual encounters with DCs, dressed up as his wife, or any other stuff from his DJ.
And as I said before - how could they even theoretically be ignorant of LDing, having the wisdom of god at hand, the complete wisdom, everything pertaining to god and human souls, which would be in that book, as they take pains to repeat?
If he thinks, he has wisdom, they have not - why not initiate them?

Originally Posted by Sensei

Why the need for trying to get everyone to the right exact same doctrine? I do not quite know. If you look at Calvary Chapel, they do not try to get believers from other churches, but we try to fulfill the great commission and teach our own the correct way. I, for instance, don't plan on staying in the supersaturated United States, but I plan to move to Japan where 95% of the people have never heard the Gospel. Jesus and the Resurrection is sufficient.

number:
approx 6000 years
Sheol no.

Riight - now there is the basic problem I have with all this.
If you manage to get a bunch of Japanese to throw their brains in the trashcan, forsake the path of reason and science by scaremongering them with hellfire, then you will have made the world a darker place - a more stupid place and a place less capable of dealing with humankind's problems, like for example climate change. Do you at least believe climate change is man-made?

I'll ask you directly once more - lets say you do ask, and it turns out it is forbidden - would you give up your hobby of LDing, Sensei? After all - you are saved anyway and already - is that maybe your line of thinking?

My pastor knows, he doesn't care. My church is less conservative on any issues not in the Bible and more conservative on issues in the Bible. For instance, we don't dress up to go to church, we just go. Many people on staff (including me) have tattoos, some people go to Tai Kwan Do, when I know that other churches would see these as some form of heresy.

the complete wisdom, which would be in that book, as they take pains to repeat?

The complete wisdom? Where is it called that? I have never read something in the Bible or heard it in my church (or the seven churches I went to before this one).

Riight - now there is the basic problem I have with all this.
If you manage to get a bunch of Japanese to throw their brains in the trash-can, forsake the path of reason and science by scare-mongering them with hellfire, then you will have made the world a darker place - a more stupid place and a place less capable of dealing with humankind's problems, like for example climate change. Do you at least believe climate change is man-made?

Forsake the path of reason and science? That is interesting. Would you like to make this a straight up debate about evolution? I have studied this subject immensely, and wouldn't mind that.

Climate change being man made? Partly man made, and partly just how the earth works. Now that man has destroyed a large amount of the earth and is polluting the ground and the air, it is becoming more and more because of man. I don't see how we could think that this would have no effect on the earth.

Work time, I will talk to you later. If you want me to answer some of Balban's questions, you will have to ask them or point them out, because my debate is with you, I don't have time for debating both of you separately, but at the same time would be fine.

Going with Fresh Life and Calvary Chapel - add "dead" to the left, and "alive and happy" to the right side here!

Originally Posted by Sensei

My pastor knows, he doesn't care. My church is less conservative on any issues not in the Bible and more conservative on issues in the Bible. For instance, we don't dress up to go to church, we just go. Many people on staff (including me) have tattoos, some people go to Tai Kwan Do, when I know that other churches would see these as some form of heresy.

Really? You told your pastor in the meantime??
Wow - tell us what was said!
So if I knew his name and e-mail and would send him a link to this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...g-satanic.html and your DJ - he would stand by your side - or she? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - but I really do doubt, he or she has an idea what you were actually on about.
I also wonder, why you haven't brought this fact up yourself yet, unprompted - for the kudos, you know?

Originally Posted by Sensei

The complete wisdom? Where is it called that? I have never read something in the Bible or heard it in my church (or the seven churches I went to before this one).

Yes - it is repeated over and over in your kick-starter video number two. And he says it would be really, very important to be clear about this.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Forsake the path of reason and science? That is interesting. Would you like to make this a straight up debate about evolution? I have studied this subject immensely, and wouldn't mind that.

Really? Sweet, finally something worth your time!!
Na then - present your case!
Looking forward to how you think, you know and understand more than all of evolutionary biology!

Originally Posted by Sensei

Climate change being man made? Partly man made, and partly just how the earth works. Now that man has destroyed a large amount of the earth and is polluting the ground and the air, it is becoming more and more because of man. I don't see how we could think that this would have no effect on the earth.

Hallelujah - at least.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Work time, I will talk to you later. If you want me to answer some of Balban's questions, you will have to ask them or point them out, because my debate is with you, I don't have time for debating both of you separately, but at the same time would be fine.

Yes - I definitively want you to answer his questions - he is clearly more erudite concerning the details and differences in doctrine than I am - also more intimate with Christianity personally - and he makes excellent points, where I just said - "well, good news then".
It looks childish and cowardly, to avoid debating him directly - that very much ascertains the impression, that you feel inferior and unable to counter his arguments. Is that really the impression you want to make - just taking on the less well informed "girl"?
His questions are mine as well, Sensei - no chickening out!
Just imagine, I would have copy-pasted his last post with it's questions in here - I suppose I don't have to physically do this, or do I?
But take your time - I don't want to harm your daily responsibilities - the topic doesn't run away - neither do we!


One thing, you should keep in mind: People posting in this thread are by far not the only ones, who read it - not even only forum-members do - be assured, there are very many wavering souls out there - "depending" on you getting it right.
That surely counts as part of the "great commission", doesn't it?
Who else than a pastor in the making should be listened to by people looking for Christian guidance on here after all? In absence of an actual pastor, that is.

By the way - where are our other outspoken Christians - Lmrhone - don't you want to chime in as well, if you're reading with us?
Assist poor Sensei?

Originally Posted by Sensei

My pastor knows, he doesn't care. My church is less conservative on any issues not in the Bible and more conservative on issues in the Bible. For instance, we don't dress up to go to church, we just go. Many people on staff (including me) have tattoos, some people go to Tai Kwan Do, when I know that other churches would see these as some form of heresy.

...

If you want me to answer some of Balban's questions, you will have to ask them or point them out, because my debate is with you, I don't have time for debating both of you separately, but at the same time would be fine.

Hmmm... maybe I'll just have to fill out the contact form on your church's website and ask them myself.

<5 minute pause for filling out the contact form....> Done.

Here is what I sent them....

I heard about your church via, of all places, a Lucid Dreaming forum. One of the participants in the discussion there was making some statements concerning some of your core values that surprised me. So I am writing to you, not in the interest of "outing" one of your parishioners, but more of a clarification for myself as to what it is that you actually believe on these two specific subjects being discussed.

First, this person mentioned that Lucid Dreaming was in line with your church's beliefs. I am really surprised by this, given what I do know about mainstream Christian doctrine. I was under the impression that areas such as these were viewed as occultish and evil. I know that it is believed that the holy spirit has communicated with certain people through their dreams, but there was no "intention" of having said dream, if that makes sense. I was curious as to what, exactly, is your position on the subject. FYI - if you are unsure what Lucid Dreaming is, here as a link to wikipedia concerning the subject - Lucid dream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Second, this person made the claim that your church is pretty much fine with other Christian faith's doctrines as long as they believe in the core believe that A) Jesus was the son of God, B) He died for our sins on calvary, C) He was resurrected on the third day, conquering sin and death. This person referred to these teachings as the "correct way" and as long as a church believed in this, they were fine with you. There was a mention of Catholicism. It was said that they to believe in this "correct way", but Catholics also believe things that, as it is had been pointed out, your doctrine would probably consider heretical. So, my question is what exactly is your stance on other Christian faiths? And more specifically Catholicism?

I certainly appreciate your kind consideration of these questions I have and I am really looking forward to your answers.
Just so you know, I will ask them two questions...

As you can see, I didn't out you or even refer directly to this website. It isn't my intention to monkey around with your RL. The point here is that I wasn't debating you. Rather I was asking you legitimate questions concerning claims you have made. Thus far, you haven't even attempted to answer ONE of my questions. So if you won't answer me, perhaps your church will. I will post the their response, should they actually take me seriously and respond to my questions. I will post their unedited response in this thread so you can then figure out what it is that you actually have signed up for and how you can reconcile it with your thoughts. Or, certainly a possibility, me telling you that you were right on these two points I have made. I am certainly not above an admission that what I thought was wrong.

*holds breath*

Originally Posted by StephL

*holds breath*

Don't do that... my guess is you'll turn as blue as your avatar's eyes. Drum your fingers.

See... this is why I really don't like debates. I go to work and ya'll start thinking that you have won. :/ I don't even have time to write today, and probably won't until Monday, in which case there will probably be at least 10 posts saying that I am running and that I can't come up with a response etc. as well as like 50 new questions. I am excited to see "my church's" response for this. I will try to answer everything above this post by Monday, but I can't really promise more.

As you can see, I didn't out you or even refer directly to this website. It isn't my intention to monkey around with your RL. The point here is that I wasn't debating you. Rather I was asking you legitimate questions concerning claims you have made. Thus far, you haven't even attempted to answer ONE of my questions. So if you won't answer me, perhaps your church will. I will post the their response, should they actually take me seriously and respond to my questions. I will post their unedited response in this thread so you can then figure out what it is that you actually have signed up for and how you can reconcile it with your thoughts. Or, certainly a possibility, me telling you that you were right on these two points I have made. I am certainly not above an admission that what I thought was wrong.

We shall wait and see. Originally I was going to only answer questions from Steph, so I am sorry if this seemed like I was ignoring you specifically. As I said, will have time on Monday, post your response and all when you get it, but if you ask any more questions, I don't know when I will be able to answer them.

Wait and see we shall!

Don't you worry Sensei - I am still patient and respect the time you invest in this - but in the meantime - I came across some really adorable stuff in the bible - this inerrant lovely book. You surely have read all and every word of the bible yourself and such also have an opinion on these.
Funnily - one gets the impression, that Jesus himself didn't view the OT as inerrant - stone casting only for the sin-less etc. - confusing to say the least:

"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)

^^So who got it right now - Jesus or the OT?

"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11

^^Ui - women in leading positions - beware of Sensei!

"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18)

^^Don't you ever consider divorce, baby!

"A bitched* shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)
*bastard, it means

^^Another nice example of being punished for what your forefathers did - ten generations - lovely!

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)

^^So if you are so unlucky as to have serious problems with your genitals - it also means your soul is in deep trouble!

"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:35-27)

^^Family values!

"But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head..." 1 Corinthians 11:5

^^Ah - so the Muslims got it right after all!

"If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."(Leviticus 26:27-30)

^^Uaah - cannibalism as punishment??

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

^^That's lovely - did this actually happen so regularly that it needed to be regulated - women dragging their husbands around by their private parts?

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)

^^Uuups...

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)

^^Dirty, dirty womenfolk - uagh..

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

^^Is that to be taken literally?

"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21)

^^What goes through biblical literalist minds while reading this, I wonder - shun the disabled! Or what?

"Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother." (Mark 12:19)

^^Wow - that I call grief-counselling!

"And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also." (Matthew 5:40)

^^Good to know - I'll rob a born again Christian, if in dire need - that should work out really nicely!

"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalm 137:9) (for punishment in case of disobedience)

^^Words fail me...

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39)

^^I don't think, I'd like to put that to the test, actually.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)

^^All hail loving kindness and tolerance! Thanks to American fundamentalists making religious adventure holidays in Uganda - this is has become horrific reality! Praise the Lord!


If you happen to disagree with your inerrant bible in some of these cases - I would be delighted to hear about it Sensei!
How can one take seriously a book, which contains stuff like this - let alone use it for moral guidance. It's beyond me.
Together with what the picture with the little girl expresses, and with the incredible ignorance it takes to assume the world would be around 6000 years old and evolution bogus - that's the kernel of my concerns.

But I am really interested in the two topics balban has brought to the attention of your church, LDing and Catholicism supposedly being just fine with them - and of course your treatise on evolution.

So again - this should be fast to clarify - do you agree with all of the above or not?
If not - how come you think the bible is inerrant?
That's two more questions - I'm a bitch, I know!

Those are fascinating. Here are some other jewels:

"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result,
but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."

- Exodus 21:20-21, New International Version

“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her."

- Exodus 21:7-8, English Standard Version

"Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

- Exodus 31:15, King James Bible

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

- Isaiah 45:7, King James Bible

Ah - great thanks - I had it in mind to search for the slave business as well!
Bible-thumping - yes we can as well!

Originally Posted by StephL

Bible-thumping - yes we can as well!

Ha ha, exactly.

I did receive a response for Fresh Life Church. It did come the day I sent it. So, why did I wait so long? Well... I started thinking about what I was actually doing. So I reread my email to FLC; several times in fact. It began to be clear to me that, in the heat of the moment, I never mentioned to FLC that I intended on posting their replies on a public forum for all to see. Seemed kind of like "shock journalism" and unfair to me. They weren't part of the discussion and I never made it clear to them what I was doing. So, I sent them back a reply basically spelling out what I was doing and asked them for permission to post their replies here. That email has gone unanswered, which I honestly can't blame them.

In what is probably my vain attempt at "protecting" everyone, who is now involved, I knowingly acknowledge that I am making the case for you, Sensei, that am just dodging the issue because I didn't like the answer, I will say this... First, I really did think that I would get some kind of response to my request for permission from your church. I didn't know what they would say, but to not answer me at all? And I allowed this issue to get down to the wire (that being all buttoned up for you and ready for your Monday morning rebuttal) even though I would be the one that ended up with egg on my face. Second, my only issue is posting their responses publicly without their permission. I certainly don't have an issue providing the exact response to anyone who is interested. So, if you want it, PM me and I will provide it to you.

In light of all this, I certainly will paraphrase what was said and, obviously, offer my additional comments to continue the discussion.

As to the LD question, the responder said that they didn't know enough about LD to comment. Even though I provided a link, the responder said that they had to research it. They offered me the opportunity to discuss it more and suggested a phone call. Honestly, I am not so committed to this to make a phone call. My reply was basically that I am really interested in their opinion once they are done with their research. What else could I really say?

During the lull in this conversation, I've read through the other thread, on this forum, that specifically addresses this exact issue. From my experience, I tend to agree with StephL's thoughts. However, I understand Sensei's side of things as well. But I think he is dancing a fine line between "sinful thoughts" vs. "actual sin" (Christianity doesn't separate the two - both are the path to death). Not necessarily in the act of LD, but in what is being dreamed about. Honestly, I don't know how you can reconcile all of that with your Christian beliefs, Sensei. But... whatever. I will add that I have no reason to necessarily doubt you that you've "gotten the OK" from your church to engage in this activity. But, in order for this to reconcile in my own mind, I believe that maybe you aren't being very honest with them about the content of your LD. But... whatever.

The second issue, concerning Fresh Life's feelings toward other Christian faiths... This is where FLC's answer and Sensei's answer matched. There was little real detail and it was nearly verbatim of Sensei's post on the subject. So, yeah, Sensei... what you think is what your church says it thinks. Just as you mentioned, as long as XYZ church agrees with and follows the Apostles' Creed, FLC seems to take little issue with it by all outward appearances. So, I will give this one to you. Incidentally, I did reply to FLC with a more direct question on this subject, but it has yet gone unanswered.

But, in saying that, I've compiled a VERY SHORT list of other "Christian" faiths that also believe in the Apostles' Creed....

Association of Vineyard Churches
Unification Church
Christian Identity
The Living Word Fellowship
Followers of Christ
Jesus Army
Seventh-day Adventist theology
Aladura
Westboro Baptist Church

All links are to their respective Wikipedia pages. I didn't want to link to anything out of the ordinary so everyone would feel free to click the links and read about them should they really want to (there is a lot here).

And, of course, this list is meant to be provocative. It can certainly be argued that these aren't legitimate "Christian" churches. And yes, I would probably agree with that sentiment. But all of these churches have a few things in common - they are rooted in whatever denomination of Christianity, they acknowledge the Apostles' Creed as one of their fundamental beliefs and they do weird shit. I don't believe Sensei and FLC would "agree" with any churches on this list. But, based on their answer to this question, then they aren't being all that honest either.

Very interesting!
I would have been more concerned, that they might actually find out, where this is all coming from, namely Sensei - especially if he did indeed bring up the subject of LDing himself already. I was bracing myself for an eventual rl overflow. But it seems, that this did not happen. On the other hand, why haven't they already researched LDing in order to properly answer his question - one should think they have, shouldn't one? I've been not really making my case exhaustively in the "satanic thread" as far as I remember - but I let off, not actually wanting him to run into the problem irl and in the end give up LDing, and have that on my conscience.
But lets see, what he has got to say himself.

Please send me their message, balban - of course I am highly interested - who would have thought that?
I would be less reluctant - not reluctant at all, actually - to post it in here verbatim. They have been warned by you mentioning, you would have come across Sensei on an internet forum after all. So it was kind of to be expected, that you would share it publicly!
Besides - what could they possibly have against cost and effort-free publicity?
I wonder, if they will come across the phenomenon, that LDing generally strongly gravitates towards sexual content. Especially true for male LDing, but I know exactly what I am talking about myself, too. There is no doubt about that at all - just check out the TOTM threads. People are even regularly asking for advice on how to circumvent the onslaught of desire in order to not crash their LDs with having sex and nothing else.
So that titbit needed to be mentioned explicitly. I do not think, it makes any difference, if you try and simulate your wife for that - obviously what you are having sex with is not the wife, but yourself. Or is it Satan's temptation directly after all - and you are weakened in your resolve, because not fully conscious!? eek.gif

If they really stand by the assertion, that the basics for being saved in their eyes is "getting Jesus right" - as opposed to mixing in archangels for example - I would have to say then, that I find that respectable and also logically consistent. So - with this little bit of information - point for New Life - and also half a point for at least expressing willingness to research LDing further. Minus one for not answering the second mail.
The other question, though, is if these Christians "getting Jesus right" would in their eyes be able to properly sanctify their lives.
That which is asked of you to do yourself after having gained the entry ticket to heaven - concerning not only your happiness, but also promising extra reward in heaven, as the speaker had asserts in the first video.
I guess, there lies the difference then?

I'll wait till Sensei gets back to us and I will then clarify once more, what I'd like him to comment on further.
But my fingers are already itching to post a very clever conversation I found on John 3:16 - which would be at the heart of "getting Jesus right". One after the other, though - too much for this post, while we still got other relevant stuff pending.

My problem with the "getting Jesus right" justification is that every single one of these "religions" I have mentioned, and the hundreds and hundreds more I didn't, all believe they are getting it right based on what they are interpreting. Christian Identity is probably the most bizarre example of my broader point. This is a group of white supremacists that believed that Jesus only died for them. In their literature, they cite many biblical examples of why the redemption story is limited to only a select group and how the rest of the people simply aren't people. Whatever... my point is that I believe it to be intellectually dishonest to make the kinds of simple assertions made by both Sensei and FLC. I guess it bothers me because these kinds of comments don't come from a place of someone's faith (the inclusions of the words "correct way" when describing your own set of beliefs, for example), but rather someone's "politics"; and by that I mean that I think these kinds of answers probably come from the feeling that society, especially now, seems to value diversity, and to appear rigid and unbending will probably be perceived as being wrong or bad. So... it's a political answer, IMO. But you can't have it both ways... either you have it right or you are wrong. It certainly can't be both.

Balban, if you could PM me that message that would be great as well. I don't think that they would mind you sharing it like that, but putting it on an open forum does seem kind of dishonest. Kudos to you messaging them exactly what you are doing. If it is to Fresh Life, they might get back to you. Sunday is full of their worship experiences and Monday is their day off, I am hoping that this is there delay.

Frick mothers. You guys were so patient with me and everything. Do you guys want to open a skype or line group and talk about it? I had a terribly long day at work and I am leaving my house right now to help my dad out with some stuff at his house. If we open a skype group to talk (Me, Balban, and StephL) I could begin answering tomorrow morning. If not, then Wednesday is my next open day to do any typing. Note, I am not the slowest typer ever, but my "O" and "M" are broken and it takes a very deliberate hit to hit them. This actually slows me down way more than you would think.

If you can wait for me, then great, if skype, then BeaconBoss, and if you can't wait... then well I can't help you.

I love this stuff.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Balban, if you could PM me that message that would be great as well. I don't think that they would mind you sharing it like that, but putting it on an open forum does seem kind of dishonest. Kudos to you messaging them exactly what you are doing. If it is to Fresh Life, they might get back to you. Sunday is full of their worship experiences and Monday is their day off, I am hoping that this is there delay.

Frick mothers. You guys were so patient with me and everything. Do you guys want to open a skype or line group and talk about it? I had a terribly long day at work and I am leaving my house right now to help my dad out with some stuff at his house. If we open a skype group to talk (Me, Balban, and StephL) I could begin answering tomorrow morning. If not, then Wednesday is my next open day to do any typing. Note, I am not the slowest typer ever, but my "O" and "M" are broken and it takes a very deliberate hit to hit them. This actually slows me down way more than you would think.

If you can wait for me, then great, if skype, then BeaconBoss, and if you can't wait... then well I can't help you.

Should this actually be....

Originally Posted by Sensei

Balban, if yu culd P e that essage that wuld be great as well. I dn't think that they wuld ind yu sharing it like that, but putting it n an pen fru des see kind f dishnest. Kuds t yu essaging the exactly what yu are ding. If it is t Fresh Life, they ight get back t yu. Sunday is full f their wrship experiences and nday is their day ff, I a hping that this is there delay.

Frick thers. Yu guys were s patient with e and everything. D yu guys want t pen a skype r line grup and talk abut it? I had a terribly lng day at wrk and I a leaving y huse right nw t help y dad ut with se stuff at his huse. If we pen a skype grup t talk (e, Balban, and StephL) I culd begin answering trrw rning. If nt, then Wednesday is y next pen day t d any typing. Nte, I a nt the slwest typer ever, but y "" and "" are brken and it takes a very deliberate hit t hit the. This actually slws e dwn way re than yu wuld think.

If yu can wait fr e, then great, if skype, then BeacnBss, and if yu can't wait... then well I can't help yu.

?

Naa - no Skype!
Don't disappoint us - so looking forward to the evolution treatise for example - and I still got the John 3:16 interpretation-aid up my sleeve.
And - don't forget:

Originally Posted by StephL

One thing, you should keep in mind: People posting in this thread are by far not the only ones, who read it - not even only forum-members do - be assured, there are very many wavering souls out there - "depending" on you getting it right.
That surely counts as part of the "great commission", doesn't it?
Who else than a pastor in the making should be listened to by people looking for Christian guidance on here after all? In absence of an actual pastor, that is.

Just checking back - I gave you another 2 very easy questions some posts back - almost as easy as the age of the earth and the yes or no to evolution. In order to answer them - you had to just read my and Universal Mind's bible-thumping posts and then get back to us on this:

Originally Posted by StephL

If you happen to disagree with your inerrant bible in some of these cases - I would be delighted to hear about it Sensei!
How can one take seriously a book, which contains stuff like this - let alone use it for moral guidance. It's beyond me.

So again - this should be fast to clarify - do you agree with all of the above or not?
If not - how come you think the bible is inerrant?
That's two more questions.

Do I not simply loove the edit-function? Lets make it three questions!
What goes through your mind when pondering this picture?



Going with Fresh Life and Calvary Chapel - add "dead and miserable" to the left, and "alive and happy" to the right side here!

Originally Posted by balban

Should this actually be....



?

It would have taken a lot less time!

StephL.

I'll take the 2 questions real quick right now.
How can I take seriously the book with stuff like that and believe it is inerrant?
Because those verses are either taken out of context, so it is pretty easy.
I cannot write up a verse study on all of then, but if you want to pick one or two, I can do a quick verse study and give you my opinion on it. I will walk you through it really slow so you know that I am not just jumping to a biased opinion. The best one would be one of universal minds probably, they seem more difficult and more fun to look up.
A lot of yours I have already looked up and studied.

Will answer more tomorrow. Should be able to give yall an answer that you will be more satisfied with. :3

I wanted to respond to you StephL, but I really think it'd be quite pointless. Ahh..... the irony of bigotry found in atheists.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Because those verses are either taken out of context, so it is pretty easy.

Either taken out of context, or what?
They are not taken out of context - not a one of them - and if you know them already - get your keyboard in order and walk us through!