Thread: Doubting my Faith

Originally Posted by Songbird

I'm an idiot for doing this, because I'll get torn apart. But I'm starting to doubt my faith (christianity). I haven't stopped believing, I just want to make sure that I'm not just switching my brain off and following, you know?
Now, I know I'll get allot of people telling me to just give it up, and I'm expecting that. But it would be nice if someone could show how its real for them or what makes it real for them.

Anyways, thats my dilemma.
Comment.

I have been here. It was really hard to let go. I looked at it objectively, without the anger, the arguments, the bias, whatever.. and I came to my conclusion... - there could be no God. I know this wasn't what you were looking for. But I can tell you you will be happier once you let go. Don't take my word for it. Think on it yourself. Good luck.

So how does wanting there to be a heaven make there be a heaven? Wouldn't it be much better to focus your efforts on making THIS world into a heaven, instead of being a religious bastard all your life and expecting there to be a heaven waiting for you?

The moment of elaboration, consideration ends.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

So how does wanting there to be a heaven make there be a heaven? Wouldn't it be much better to focus your efforts on making THIS world into a heaven, instead of being a religious bastard all your life and expecting there to be a heaven waiting for you?

You're irritating as hell. I don't think he was implying that wanting makes it so, what he was saying was that if you want something, like heaven, to be, then you have to go investigate and look for it. You have to go about actively searching for answers, and you have to keep an open mind.

Then agian, maybe that wasn't what he was saying at all?

DeathCell said:

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Some people just want more than looking forward to a life of atoms then to a cold grave....

Wanting it does not make it so.

Originally Posted by Grod

I have been here. It was really hard to let go. I looked at it objectively, without the anger, the arguments, the bias, whatever.. and I came to my conclusion... - there could be no God. I know this wasn't what you were looking for. But I can tell you you will be happier once you let go. Don't take my word for it. Think on it yourself. Good luck.

Me thinks he could be happy with or without.

Happiness is not only decided by whether one believes in a higher power or not...

Wanting it does not make it so.

Did I ever at any point say wanting it did make it so?

Vehemently believing it impossible does not make it not-so.

THIS world into a heaven, instead of being a religious bastard all your life and expecting there to be a heaven waiting for you?

At what point did all religions have a heaven.. You speak of Christianity and Judaism and I believe Islam.

Buddhism has a heaven too I believe but you really have to work to get their and are re-incarnated multiple times..

A religious bastard?

You assume too much to feel all religious people are born out of wedlock, or mean and disagreeable... (the definitions of bastard) Their are a lot of good hearted people who do good things for people whether they believe in a Heaven or not. Religion doesn't dictate evil nor does it dictate good, it all depends who wields it...

You hold the power to define who you are and what you do. Religion helps many people, hinders many others.
But you hold the key to your own fate.
Just what you want to be, you will be in the end.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Me thinks he could be happy with or without.

Happiness is not only decided by whether one believes in a higher power or not...

Uh, yeah. Of course you can be happy with believing in god. The point is, you can still be happy without believing in one. You will not feel unloved or sad after losing your religous beliefs.

Originally Posted by Grod

Uh, yeah. Of course you can be happy with believing in god. The point is, you can still be happy without believing in one. You will not feel unloved or sad after losing your religous beliefs.

"But I can tell you you will be happier once you let go."


How do you draw that conclusion, I guess?

"Gee, can't believe I actually believed in that without really thinking about it. Well, at least I'm smarter now."

that was me

Why does it even matter?

Originally Posted by Songbird

I'm an idiot for doing this, because I'll get torn apart. But I'm starting to doubt my faith (christianity). I haven't stopped believing, I just want to make sure that I'm not just switching my brain off and following, you know?
Now, I know I'll get allot of people telling me to just give it up, and I'm expecting that. But it would be nice if someone could show how its real for them or what makes it real for them.

Anyways, thats my dilemma.
Comment.

Maybe what you could do to make this time more enjoyable, is to take your doubt and turn it into a chance to explore. Take the time to read up on other beliefs because maybe your current one isn't satisfying your spiritual needs.
I'm an atheist, but sometimes I wonder, just like anyone else, and I use that state of mind as a chance to absorb other ideas.

- Moose

All I gotta say if you are doubting your religion or are looking for THE TRUTH how about looking at other religions not just Christianity and Athiesm. Maybe Budhism, Hinduism, Islam, Bahai, and really learn about the other religions WITH AN OPEN MIND looking for the truth. Don't let others affect you. Then that just ruins the whole exprience of trying to find what your looking for. And don't think that it will end just hear which ever religion you choose there's always changing afterwards again. To me it seems doubt is a very good thing in way. That is because it gives you reason to search your own religion more and to try out other religions.
Well all I gotta say is good luck and just tell god to guide you.
Wish you luck on your spiritual journey.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

When I was a small child, my mother taught me that just wanting something doesn't make it happen. I guess your mother forgot that lesson.

Your mother limited you in ways you may never know.

Becum teh atheeust!

Originally Posted by Songbird

I'm an idiot for doing this, because I'll get torn apart. But I'm starting to doubt my faith (christianity). I haven't stopped believing, I just want to make sure that I'm not just switching my brain off and following, you know?
Now, I know I'll get allot of people telling me to just give it up, and I'm expecting that. But it would be nice if someone could show how its real for them or what makes it real for them.

Anyways, thats my dilemma.
Comment.

It's good you question things as it keeps you from blind faith, but if it's because of what people say then you need to ignore them. You should not care less what others think of your religion, and all the beliefs. You believe them, they don't. I was losing faith and i turned the wrong direction, i started believing in the skeptics because it seemed to make sense, i slowly and slowly started being a skeptic, and questioning everything, then 1 day out of the blue i asked myself...Why? if you run away from your beliefs because some people don't agree with them you might aswell run away from your own decision making because not everyone will like the decisions you make. Believe what YOU want to believe, and not what some know-it-all's have to say. You believe in an idea, you have the power to keep believing in your idea, or have people stomp all over you for the rest of your life because you let them take controll over you. I don't know what i'm supposed to believe in, so i believe in what i want to believe in, and if anyone wants to take that away, they can try their best but i am not that weak anymore.

Of course this is IF it's because of what people say. If not then ignore my post.

Originally Posted by Songbird

I'm an idiot for doing this, because I'll get torn apart. But I'm starting to doubt my faith (christianity). I haven't stopped believing, I just want to make sure that I'm not just switching my brain off and following, you know?
Now, I know I'll get allot of people telling me to just give it up, and I'm expecting that. But it would be nice if someone could show how its real for them or what makes it real for them.

Anyways, thats my dilemma.

If your doubt is justified, logical questioning will prove it to be.
If it isn't, then logical examination will reveal that too.
Either way, you will eventually find some answers.
The worst thing you can do with doubt is ignore it (unless finding the truth is not a major concern).
It's often said (including by religious people) that if you want to know the truth you have to look for it...

Christianity, like all other religions are a fraud used politically to manipulate public opinion and cause diversity among the people of the world.

Watch the first part of this movie and you will see the lie and how it is used to change people into sheep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kHhc67GopM

Originally Posted by really

Really, faith in higher power is important and consistent contemplation is very healthy. There is, without a doubt, a greater Reality beyond our little minds. It is all a matter of spiritual awareness.

Let nothing stop you from believing. Essentially you are having faith in yourself - yet you truly do not know what you are. In time all will be revealed.

1. Very healthy? Do you pray to nonexistant blobs of fur that live on Mars? No? Well then. That's not healthy. That's just CRAZY!

2. Having faith in yourself? Goddamn! Give yourself some credit!
ie. Thank you God for giving me this promotion: No, you did the work.
Thank you God for keeping me alive after that accident. No, your preservance and want to get out kept you alive. Not to mention them little guys called...EMTs? Yeah. They did work to. Not your big, invisible shepard with a cane hangin out in the sky.

THank you God for this food. Uhm, no thanks the momma cow, evolution, the big bang, and not to mention the slaughter house for that T-Bone on yourplate.

Thank you God for this ability to accept all people (Except Jews, blacks, gays, lesbians, people who are bi-curious, and just about everyone thats not a white male who thanks God for a bunch of shit).

Thank you God for giving me reproductive organs and a temptation to use them, then telling me not to.

Thank you God for telling me to listen to whatever you say or you will send me to a torture place, which clearly is a contradiction in itself.

Thank you God for just about everything. Then expecting me to thank you at dinner. Screw that.

And believing the above is just wrong!

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

1. Very healthy? Do you pray to nonexistant blobs of fur that live on Mars? No? Well then. That's not healthy. That's just CRAZY!

My point in hand, do you not contemplate the universe or your Self and agree that something is greater than your mind?

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

2. Having faith in yourself? Goddamn! Give yourself some credit!
ie. Thank you God for giving me this promotion: No, you did the work.
Thank you God for keeping me alive after that accident. No, your preservance and want to get out kept you alive. Not to mention them little guys called...EMTs? Yeah. They did work to. Not your big, invisible shepard with a cane hangin out in the sky.

THank you God for this food. Uhm, no thanks the momma cow, evolution, the big bang, and not to mention the slaughter house for that T-Bone on yourplate.

Thank you God for this ability to accept all people (Except Jews, blacks, gays, lesbians, people who are bi-curious, and just about everyone thats not a white male who thanks God for a bunch of shit).

Thank you God for giving me reproductive organs and a temptation to use them, then telling me not to.

Thank you God for telling me to listen to whatever you say or you will send me to a torture place, which clearly is a contradiction in itself.

Thank you God for just about everything. Then expecting me to thank you at dinner. Screw that.

And believing the above is just wrong!

You thank God for all these things, not because "God wants to be thanked" (He has no opinion/demands on the matter) but because you're grateful.

Having faith in yourself means to move on from apparent downfalls and grow into a more loving and willful person. Also, that you exist and that your truest nature waits to be discovered (at least until you find out that you always knew ).

But, you thank god for them. I mean, what the hell. Give yourself some credit. God ddidn't do the work for that promotion. You did. You didn't get saved by God when you got in that accident. EMT's saved you. Don't ignore that, and explain how God did enough work in those situations to be thanked.

Adnd just another point, (before I forget lol) what about abuse? Why doesn't God stop it? Read "A Child Called It". God, God didn't do shit there!

Originally Posted by really

My point in hand, do you not contemplate the universe or your Self and agree that something is greater than your mind?



You thank God for all these things, not because "God wants to be thanked" (He has no opinion/demands on the matter) but because you're grateful.

Having faith in yourself means to move on from apparent downfalls and grow into a more loving and willful person. Also, that you exist and that your truest nature waits to be discovered (at least until you find out that you always knew ).

It is hard to let go of fantasies. But look at it objectively before you write your next post. There is no god.

SomeGuy was right. Who should get credit for all that shit? Us! Who do we have to thank for winning that soccer game yesterday? Our coach, our team's hard work, our perseverance. Not god.

If you say your god has no opinions/demands/whatever, then why need he exist at all? What does your god do for you? How does he affect your life? Go into detail.

Originally Posted by WhiteWolf

All I gotta say if you are doubting your religion or are looking for THE TRUTH

I understand your point and will back it up to a certain extent. My only issue, is that the truth has nothing to do with your opinion on other religions or what religion works for you. The truth is the truth is truth. Just because something works for you doesn't mean it is true. Hence my atheism.

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

1. Very healthy? Do you pray to nonexistant blobs of fur that live on Mars? No? Well then. That's not healthy. That's just CRAZY!

It's still in debate weather or not that blob exsists. If it does, then it's incredibly healthy

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

2. Having faith in yourself? Goddamn! Give yourself some credit!
ie. Thank you God for giving me this promotion: No, you did the work.
Thank you God for keeping me alive after that accident. No, your preservance and want to get out kept you alive. Not to mention them little guys called...EMTs? Yeah. They did work to. Not your big, invisible shepard with a cane hangin out in the sky.

God made the opertunity available, created you, gave you the intelligence to utilize skills and put the EMTS on earth. by the way, God has no real shape or definition. (excluding the 33yr old shape that was christ.)

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

THank you God for this food. Uhm, no thanks the momma cow, evolution, the big bang, and not to mention the slaughter house for that T-Bone on yourplate.

If you are a believer then God is the one that created the cow. evolution? you mean that cycle that started through nearly pure chance and random coincidence. (such as asteroid impacts)

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

Thank you God for this ability to accept all people (Except Jews, blacks, gays, lesbians, people who are bi-curious, and just about everyone thats not a white male who thanks God for a bunch of shit).

Religion and christ doesn't teach discrimination agaisnt Jews, Blacks or other minority groups. It does teach, however, that homosexuality is a Sin. Along with murder and rape and several other things that a majority of american society consider wrong. (homosexuality isn't anywhere near as bad as murder or rape.)

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

Thank you God for giving me reproductive organs and a temptation to use them, then telling me not to.

your right, God shouldn't have expected us to use self control or try to restrain ourselves. that was mean. (note the sarcasm)

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

Thank you God for telling me to listen to whatever you say or you will send me to a torture place, which clearly is a contradiction in itself.

learn about the subject you disagree with before you assume you know it. God doesn't send you to hell for not obeying him. You go to hell for not believing. This is a way more complex topic wich, in and of itself, could be debated about for days.

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

Thank you God for just about everything. Then expecting me to thank you at dinner. Screw that.

God doesn't ever expect you to thank him... people do it because there, well, thankful.

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

And believing the above is just wrong!

That is opinion my friend, a hotly debated one.

Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx

But, you thank god for them. I mean, what the hell. Give yourself some credit. God ddidn't do the work for that promotion. You did. You didn't get saved by God when you got in that accident. EMT's saved you. Don't ignore that, and explain how God did enough work in those situations to be thanked.

Adnd just another point, (before I forget lol) what about abuse? Why doesn't God stop it? Read "A Child Called It". God, God didn't do shit there!

I think the source of all this frustration comes from the belief in a God with personal and anthropomorphic attributes. Essentially, these are both the projections of the human ego, and the particular method of symbolic expression. This is what I have said in another thread, in a similar context:

Originally Posted by really

By research, I mean spiritual research. You can look into psychology, psychiatry and even language, cultural heritage and backgrounds, history, those kind of things. You can understand the dualistic ego, and evolution of collective consciousness - this is helpful. I'd recommend the best seller, "Power vs. Force" by Dr. David Hawkins. Details throughout many areas of science and the ego are contextualized for spiritual understanding.

Underneath all the major world religions he explains, the spiritual truth is the same. What the anthropomorphic symbolism and ritual dogma are, essentially is the illustration of the limitations of both communication and the linear ego/mind. God is not a person who therefore judges like a person. "God will smite you." Oh so God has human emotions now? "Can't eat certain foods." God wants us to go on a diet for him; heaven is restricted to vegetarians?? See the projections? The message becomes further clouded, when we accept the limited reality and fallacies of these small human ideas, and thereafter even more when we hypothetically judge the act of doing so, according to other ideals that are potentially out of context.

What is essential is all that matters. Truth has no such dogmatic "requirements" or any "desires/cares/contracts" and isn't "authoritarian" - because these would entail "exclusion", hence no forgiveness.. etc.

Originally Posted by Grod

It is hard to let go of fantasies. But look at it objectively before you write your next post. There is no god.

All you want me to do is adopt a viewpoint where God seems to be false. What you have to remember is that "looking objectively" is still looking. This is actually not an objective matter, but a spiritual matter.

Originally Posted by Grod

SomeGuy was right. Who should get credit for all that shit? Us! Who do we have to thank for winning that soccer game yesterday? Our coach, our team's hard work, our perseverance. Not god.

Please, thank God that your soccer game even exists. Thank God for your breath, thank God for your freedom. Thank God for your Life. Give thanks. Even if you are better off than others - they will still make their way to God. Who cares about your soccer game? You do, and who cares about what credit from who? You do, or for better terms, the ego does. The prideful ego. It doesn't realize that without God, nothing would exist. It thinks it is God, of course. Think of this Context, the grand Context that God is Reality itself.

Originally Posted by Grod

If you say your god has no opinions/demands/whatever, then why need he exist at all?

Do you think a God with infinite power and presence needs any demands? Do you think an all-Loving God would be troubled by someone's opinion?

Originally Posted by Grod

What does your god do for you? How does he affect your life? Go into detail.

My God is my Self, Buddha, Universe - all the same to me. The Context of my existence, the divinity and oneness of everything. This is essentially the same Truth that underlies the great religions and the great mystics/spiritual teachers.

Why believe in God? There's no proof. Why believe in love? There's no proof. Why believe in friendship? There's no proof. Why believe in your own potential? There's no proof.

Become an atheist, lose all your beliefs, live your life the good way!