Thread: Shared Dreaming Research

agreed.

If you guys wnted a private group here on DV for the project, I imgine tht alex would probbly be hppy to oblige with setting up a privte group or subforum of BD here for you guyss? Or just prticipte in Deep Dreming...

(very sorry my keybord is broken)

I don't understnd why you would wnt to tke it off the fforum? When our sserch engine rnking iss lredy top notch.

aquanina. Most of us have applied to deep dreaming and have not been approved yet so we don't know what's going on in that project. We are not leaving DV and we are not going to be competeing with DV. We just want a site we controll and moniter to run expirimets off of. It would be nice if we were allowed to talk about this project even though it is indipendant. According to Niaya I shouldn't be talking to you. We are planning on actually going out and doing research and I think this is different from what is going on here but I may be wrong. I love DV and I wouldn't do anything to hurt it I just want a place to use for proforming more scientific research.

We need to see the ongoing project first before definate decisions are made.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

If you guys wnted a private group here on DV for the project, I imgine tht alex would probbly be hppy to oblige with setting up a privte group or subforum of BD here for you guyss? Or just prticipte in Deep Dreming...

(very sorry my keybord is broken)

I don't understnd why you would wnt to tke it off the forum? When our sserch engine rnking iss lredy top notch.

Because what we are looking for is not (despite what everyone apparently seems to think) a competing site that looks to gather public access users and gain better browser positioning. It is a closed access mainframe from which those of us involved in the project can access, analyze, compare and store information regarding our (physically) controlled environment experimentation and data gathering. No ads, no public chat forums, nothing. This, I presume, is way we can't understand the why exactly behind this ban; but then again, the admins are not mind readers, and I can perfectly understand why they might think that we will compete against the site.

to the staff and owners of DV. I know if I owned a business that I would be concerned with competitors. But we aren't competing! Atleast for money, at this point if you argue with us it's only for fear of our project turning out better. But that's Insane! This project is for the advancement of our knowledge. Lucid dreaming is free so why fight our research. You are our peers and you are the ones who should review our project and us yours. In science a project must be well documented and repeatable by your peers. Having other like us test your expiriments only makes your work more credible. Please don't become absorb with greed and look at the big picture. Make allies not enemys please. I think you should allow for open discussion of all free projects on dreamviews.

Zebrah

Hmm. I just approved everyone who asked last night. It's a subforum of Beyond Dreaming.

Usually Jeff does it, so mayhaps I did it wrong. Please let me know if you're not seeing the forum.

Also, regarding what Nina said, if there was enough support, we may be able to create an invisible forum for shared dreaming and its research here.

The Admins & owner have already discussed the issue and our wish is that you not advertise or make plans for this other website on the open forums here. If it is a private/closed endeavor, there is no problem with taking your plans to PM or a private room in IRC.

OK Naiya no problem. Thanks for the approval

Hey there again Naiya. I have indeed received admission privileges into the DD forums. Thank you. As for your comment regarding the creation of an invisible shared dreaming forum, you say that if there is enough support you'd go through with it. What I fail to understand is how we can accrue support if were not permitted to publicly post anymore?

One more question: when and if this project where to go "real life" is it okay to post volunteer requests on the DD forums? if we ever get to a point where the physical presence of project participants is required in closely monitored control environments, can we let that information be known on said forums? So far all experiments I have seen there are at a distance, un-rigorous, trust-what-the-other-person-says kinds of things, not at all what I have in development. So is requesting physical presence volunteers a topic to be avoided as well? I would really like to know beforehand because there is a fair chance that I will get this project up and running with some colleagues and few staff members from the University of California, San Diego (not to mention the support of everyone here interested) so you can imagine that having a good Lucid Dreaming community to contribute to our limited experience in the matter would be priceless!

I repeat, it would in no way be aimed at competing against ANY website, much less this one, but there would be a need for physically available subjects to participate. So, if it wont be any trouble, can I post the premises for this project in the DD forums? sans the website issue? I can forget about that for now, the main point is securing a viable, steady source of information and experienced people in the matter, after all, all project participants I have talked to have a very good idea of the concepts involved, very much so in fact, but they are still psychologists and med students that are not experienced in the actual doing of any of these things.

I understand that you are not the owner of these forums, but I think he is passing up a very good opportunity to have his site associated with a formal, professionally supervised controlled environ experiment, regardless of its outcome; from a purely business standpoint, he stands much to gain if people associate this already great site with a UCSD run project (UCSD being one of the front and foremost prestigious universities on the western seaboard) Thank you so much for your time and please let me know, so as not to stress this sites rules any further!

I'd rather not have this turn into an argument that gets us banned from DV. I looked over the DD thread and it looks completely different from what we're trying to do. The thread in DD is for members of DV who want to share dreams. We're trying to create a scientific experiment that has nothing to do with DV. While the DD thread is for people who want to experience shared dreaming, our website will be for us. We're certainly not competing with that thread.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

If you guys wnted a private group here on DV for the project, I imgine tht alex would probbly be hppy to oblige with setting up a privte group or subforum of BD here for you guyss? Or just prticipte in Deep Dreming...

(very sorry my keybord is broken)

I don't understnd why you would wnt to tke it off the fforum? When our sserch engine rnking iss lredy top notch.

There are a few reasons I wanted to take it off DV. The first is that, if we have our own website, then we're not dependent on DV for anything. The second is that we want a private place to talk about the experiment, and although it can be created by DV, it wouldn't be the same as having our own forums. The third, and probably most important, reason is that we want a home page. This will allow us to program in a sign-up page for the general public, in which people who want to can sign up for the experiment. I don't think DV can provide us with a home page, and even if it could, it wouldn't be controlled by us. The fourth reason is that we want to have email addresses not tied to Gmail or another service.
The only thing the subforum could offer us is a private place to talk about the experiment.

Yeah I know Dogod I wouldn't want to get banned but I think at this point we are still having a discussion. The way the situation is we should just get the website going and forget about even speaking of it on DV. All I would like permission to do (not me specifically but anyone involved in our project) Is post a forum for people interested in doing a research project. I would not post the website URL in the forum only through PM would that be ok? If not then that will be the last you hear of this from me on DV.

Also anyone interested click the pic in my sig. It's a WILD technique my little brother came up with when he was 4. Before I even knew what lucid dreaming was. I interviewed him and it is really quite amazing. Keep in mind he had never read or heard how a WILD was done before I interviewed him. So this is all his creation. (Hes 8)

Why dont you guys draft up a formal proposal and PM it to alex. Maybe there is something that can be worked out. But you need to talk to him directly.

Originally Posted by khellofthewired

Hey there again Naiya. I have indeed received admission privileges into the DD forums. Thank you. As for your comment regarding the creation of an invisible shared dreaming forum, you say that if there is enough support you'd go through with it. What I fail to understand is how we can accrue support if were not permitted to publicly post anymore?

Huh? No one said you couldn't talk about shared dreaming or shared dreaming projects. All I asked is that if you are going to be doing it on a separate website, not to advertise or plan for the WEBSITE.

As for getting public support for a SD forum or something like it on DV...you're welcome to make a thread in Meta for that.

Originally Posted by khellofthewired

So, if it wont be any trouble, can I post the premises for this project in the DD forums? sans the website issue? I can forget about that for now, the main point is securing a viable, steady source of information and experienced people in the matter, after all, all project participants I have talked to have a very good idea of the concepts involved, very much so in fact, but they are still psychologists and med students that are not experienced in the actual doing of any of these things.

That would be no problem.

OK, so we have this all worked out then right? Thanks for you time niaya

Looks like it. Good luck & have fun, guys.

Originally Posted by Loaf

... no. Just no.

Um yah bro, wake up and smell the tea leaves, cause science has been corrupt for awhile. Look at the whole ClimateGate scenario. Not only did they share what they wanted the data to show, but they also covered it up with the government lol. Its all about funding, and this attitude as gone to the mainstream science. Science isn't corrupt, mainstream science is. Everything that you see in the public spectrum is really a load of horseshit. Its been confuddled for awhile to make people stay sheeple. Look up Vitalism, oh wait, Materialism eradicated that concept haha. Look up torsion fields, oh wait, there are several websites from Russia on the subject being blocked. Look up morphogenetic fields. Its out there, but its hard to find the true scientific forum, because there is so much disinfo on the subject. But it is all going to come out, and hopefully soon. Namaste

I think that the only way you could really prove that a shared dream occurred would be to transfer information from one person to another. For instance, a code word, or a number code that they could repeat after the dream is recalled.

Besides that... it seems like it can only be proved to yourself. Which, in most cases, is more than enough.

I think that was the plan - have people transfer some information to the other people which they couldn't have figured out any other way.

I've read through a bit of the thread, not all of it. But I'm very interested in the questions behind shared dreaming. And I believe I've actually experienced it before. About half of a week after the night I had this specific dream that I'll explain more about in a second, I was talking to my best friend that was accompanying me in the dream, and before I could tell him all of the story, he got all excited and finished the plot with key items that there's no way he should have known.

The dream was a lucid dream. I'd been conscious in my dream for awhile, but I took a little bit of a dark area and regained consciousness walking down a sidewalk. I was walking with my friend, Jeremy. And just like in a few other dreams I've had, we talked about how this was a dream, and all of the things we could do. How awesome it was, and stuff like that. And the street was actually the street that my house is on. Then later on in that dream we walked into the elementary school down the street from my house, and started really getting into inventing cool things out of the dream. But then quickly after entering, I was forced off, and I got separated, way far away. But I flew back in search to re-join the fun, and couldn't find anyone.

Surrounding facts about that story that convinced me afterwards were these; I was taking a trip to the mountains, I was an hour and a half away from my city that my friend and I both live in. I had this dream on a Saturday, the second night I was there. Then on the following week on something like Tuesday or Wednesday, I talked to my friend. And already at this point we've been into lucid dreaming for a long time. We talk about it a lot. And I started telling him that I had that cool dream in the mountains over the phone, and he partially throws in that he had an interesting one too, but I kept going. And I said we were walking down the sidewalk, and talking about lucid dreaming and stuff. (PAUSE) This is where I shit bricks, he was like "Wait, hold on. Were we right by your house? Walking down the street around that school?"

We flipped out. I've continued advancing pretty decently with lucid dreaming and stuff. And it's honestly been one of my... sub-goals in life to find out about shared dreaming. I think if I can figure out how to trigger it, there would be so much potential for heightened communication with another person. I believe if minds entered a synced state, there would be so much more of a empathetic emotional transfer that I would really appreciate. I would like to see other people's world's, and the strange moments that they put abstract thoughts into, and also show other people my thoughts. I think I could show people a lot of things that would change them. So, that's my two cents on the subject.

I can honestly see no credible theory that can realistically postulate that shared LDs are possible. I really think you're wasting your time which would be much better spent looking for ways of developing a device that can kick you into an LD with 100% certainty, like the holoband in Caprica.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that our consciousness is anything but a biproduct of our neural structure and activity. To postulate anything else is getting into the mumbo jumbo of religions. And look what good that's done our species. I know that its very appealing to think there may other worlds or dimensions that we can appreciate but although a multiverse is quite a possibility, all the evidence suggests that we're stuck here in our 4 dimensions and that when our brain ceases to function we're as effective as we were before we were born.

What possible credible theory can you offer to suggest our dream states could be shared in realtime ?

Originally Posted by Dr Who

I can honestly see no credible theory that can realistically postulate that shared LDs are possible. I really think you're wasting your time which would be much better spent looking for ways of developing a device that can kick you into an LD with 100% certainty, like the holoband in Caprica.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that our consciousness is anything but a biproduct of our neural structure and activity. To postulate anything else is getting into the mumbo jumbo of religions. And look what good that's done our species. I know that its very appealing to think there may other worlds or dimensions that we can appreciate but although a multiverse is quite a possibility, all the evidence suggests that we're stuck here in our 4 dimensions and that when our brain ceases to function we're as effective as we were before we were born.

What possible credible theory can you offer to suggest our dream states could be shared in realtime ?

I wanted to question what your intentions were for this. You say you see no credible theory that can realistically accommodate shared dreaming, but I don't think that you've had any graduations in psychology and what not. If you have, how then does someone understanding the scientific method of investigation think to throw out the idea that, because a person doesn't understand something, it shouldn't be discussed or looked into any further?

There's no evidence for quantum logic computers with data processed by light other than theory and speculation until recently, when scientists found an agent that was capable of binding two light molecules. Just explaining, that sometimes we don't know amounts of information about something because we can't modulate it yet.

Then, there's no evidence to account for the mind being a product of neural structures and activity, but the question that we can investigate into is; "Can our natural mental activity produce connections in dream patterns?" Definitely not, "can the brain magically do magic things?". There's also no evidence against shared dreams occurring to add to that. I don't believe everything I read on the internet, but I've heard just a few convincing stories along with experiencing what I explain in a few comments above.

The fourth dimension multiverse thing threw me off, something about being born and dying. Then you turned what you'd been saying into a question, what possible theory can anyone suggest that dream states could be shared in real time? Which now I might just be being too technical, but shared dreaming has been questioned to exist in real time and in episodes of time lapses between shared experiences. I have no neurological experiment able to process the question but I still think there's a big point in discussing and look it over here, when qualified. For it's potentials sake. And it's margin of uncertainty.

Dream Partners: An Ongoing Experiment in Lucid Dream Sharing

*Link removed, as linking to sites selling merchandise is not allowed

I suspect that, (if shared dreaming is possible) it will take a similar route that lucid dreaming took before it, whereby people report and log the experiences first and then science follows by coming up with various ideas and theories to why and how it works.

This just in - if science cannot explain something it does not mean that it does not exist!