Thread: Shared Dreaming Research

Hey I'm wanting to work on a credible shared dreaming research project. I plan to document and date everything and use correct format/methods. Here is what I just jotted down to give you guys an idea of my plan. By no means is this what my paper is going to look like. I also know I need some more dreaming experience so I plan to include this in the paper so that my peers can test the experiments.

HYPOTHESIS: “Do Dreamers Enter An Alternate Reality?”
THEORY: That Lucid Dreamers Can Share Dreams Together
ASSUMPTIONS: That Lucid Dreaming Is Possible
OUTLINE:
Dreams occur in REM sleep. If dreams only occur in your mind then it would be impossible for two people to share a dream. Our goal is to attempt to document shared dreaming and a credible manner, and prove multiple realties.

Q. What constitutes credible shared dream experiences VS non Credible?

I had a friend who said she "pulled" another friend into her dream. She was having a normal dream when suddenly she thought of a close friend. Apparently the dream changed, she was surrounded by bright light and suddenly her friend she was concerned with was there with her. The next day, dun dun dun... her friend said she had also seen her in her dream.

Perhaps it is possible, that would be cool.... but it may take someone with a certain ability most people aren't aware of (my friend had some interesting abilities) that go just beyond normal lucid dreaming.

I'm honestly not interested in this at all... But:

Dreams occur in REM sleep

Dreams don't ONLY occur in REM sleep as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that is just when they are most vivid. Minor issue, just bringing it to attention I guess...

Originally Posted by Man of Shred

Q. What constitutes credible shared dream experiences VS non Credible?

Something that another person. For example you, could read and then repeat the experiments.

Originally Posted by DatDreamer

I'm honestly not interested in this at all... But:

Quote:
Dreams occur in REM sleep
Dreams don't ONLY occur in REM sleep as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that is just when they are most vivid. Minor issue, just bringing it to attention I guess...

Ya I remembered that after posting but I was going to bed so I didn't edit it

I've already done that.

Originally Posted by Man of Shred

I've already done that.

As have I. A lot of people here on DV have done this. Check out the DJ's

I know others have done this but I have reasons why I want to do it.
1) because I am folowing my peers work (MOSH) and testing his experiment
2) more information for other points of view is always helpfull
3) I'm training to be an ecologist and understand science and would like to make a more formal experiment that might be taken more seriously by skeptics.

and mosh I really enjoy reading our posts about shared dreaming you really inspire my to work on lucid dreaming. People on the forum are typicly open minded and are kinda the forruners of lucid dreaming along with people like Stephan LaBarge so I feel like I owe you guys to input some good material. But if you guys think it's a waste of time the I respect that and will stop my work because what's the point if it's not needed.

Hi all! I know this thread fizzled like a month ago, but I just wanted to ask: so Zebrah, are you actually going thru with this experiment? I've been searching the web for information on the matter and this is the closest Ive gotten to anyone proposing to actually try and prove this, not just praise its merits. Id be really interested to hear if you've gotten anywhere with this.

Originally Posted by khellofthewired

Hi all! I know this thread fizzled like a month ago, but I just wanted to ask: so Zebrah, are you actually going thru with this experiment? I've been searching the web for information on the matter and this is the closest Ive gotten to anyone proposing to actually try and prove this, not just praise its merits. Id be really interested to hear if you've gotten anywhere with this.

Like It told you in the other thread (Posting it here incase you don't look back), Theres an experiment going on in Deep Dreaming. PM one of the admins and ask for access, and take a look!

hey khell I am going through with it still but I an having trouble actually lucid dreaming. l am going to try my first real expiriment today if I can. Me and my brother are both going to try to WILD simultaniously focusing on a set location. If you are interested in joining my Indipendant project please post back.

Hey there Zebrah. Glad to hear you haven't given up on this! My current train of thought regarding the matter (as restrained and uneducated as it may be) consists of something along these lines:

Shared Dreaming experiences can most likely be truly attained, if at all, when one is in VERY close proximity to the "Second Dreamer". To better explain my thinking (and the why behind it) I can only use what I consider a deceptively simple example: this new wave of so called "mind control" child's games. The premise upon which these toys work is based on sensors registering electrical charges (mysteriously enough termed "mind waves" by company marketers) that in turn act on an electrical motor, which depending on the concentration of said waves, can either spin a fan or move a car or do a seemingly endless variety of things.

Now, my point is this, it is perfectly clear that indeed there is some sort of "brainwave" being generated by our minds; I know this is a common enough and proven scientific fact, but I refer to these brainwaves as being able to interact with objects outside our own skulls. So, if we can make crude electrical sensors register, and indeed to a degree, manipulate these waves, is it not possible that perhaps a much, MUCH more advanced exterior sensor (i.e. someone else's brain) can recieve, interpret, and control these emanations?

Now I know what most people are thinking: mind control? now I know your nuts! But its not mind control; I am not by any means implying that we can control other peoples brainwaves, make them do what we want or think what we want; what I am merely saying is: why can these waves not interact in a certain fashion when we are asleep? For truly when we are dreaming about, lets say a barn, the barn in itself is nothing more than a series of encoded electrical impulses bouncing about in our brains; if it has been proven that these electrical impulses are by no means deterred by the calcium cage that is our skull (as proven by these so called toys) if we dream while in close proximity to someone else, why can't this Second Dreamer's waves get entangled with our own? the result being us both dreaming about the barn?

Well, like I said, I do not pretend to be in any way knowledgeable about these matters, it is simply a concept that I have floating around in my mind that I wanted to share for anyone to either contribute to, or completely rip apart! I will probably be posting this "theory" of mine in a separate thread to promote a more varied approach. Thank you all!

Well, my successful dream sharing experiences have always been when sleeping in the same bed. So your theory is interesting.

Hey that's interesting. I share a room with my bro so we will be close. hopefully this will work it should be happening soon. I think it should work because we are both going to try to immerse ourselvs in this location. I'll post back with a long analysis of the reasults when it happens.

Dannon, you are about the twelfth person that's confirmed to me that their shared dreaming experience has been indeed carried out while in close proximity to the Second Dreamer.

I skimmed through the papers which you provided in the link in my other post, which I include here for anyone likewise interested:

http://www.asdreams.org/telepathy/ke...ream_event.htm
http://dreamtalk.hypermart.net/membe...d_kellogg.html

To be certain, there are various interesting avenues to be explored there, but again, there seems to be no actual research being conducted on the matter; this baffles me. It needn't be a particularly expensive scientific exercise, just a simple EEG reader and a few willing test subjects would do (of which I'm sure about a few dozen could be easily found in these forums)

I plan to pursue this "mind experiment" to the fullest of possible outcomes. I realize that these forums are for a more relaxed sort of discussion and by no means a veritable source of solid empiric information; but nevertheless I plan to keep everyone updated as I progress, as I know Zebrah will too. We might not be funded by big government or company grants, but how many times has history shown us that sometimes the most unexpected people are the ones that come through with the biggest discoveries? I urge everyone that reads this and is truly interested in pursuing a scientifically based explanation to shared dreaming to contact me, or even if you've had an experience and simply wish to propose a different theory, everything is assuredly welcome! Like I mentioned before, I will be opening a new thread to further develop this topic.

If enough of us put our minds together, there is surely no obstacle big enough to deter us.

What we should do is create a website, separate from DV, for the specific purpose of these experiments. This seems like it's too big to discuss in only these forums, because as we see, threads decay and sink. With a separate website (with its own forums), we would be able to not only explain to newcomers what shared dreaming is, but also not be dependent on DV being up and running - all websites have various problems once in a while. Also, that way if somebody does a Google search for shared dreaming, there will be something useful. Also, there would be a home page to refer people to if they ask questions about it. Also, we would be able to discuss shared dreaming without the constraints of one thread.
shareddreaming.com is an open domain name, but other ideas could work also.
It's my opinion that this is the only way we'll ever be able to organize any formal experiment. We'd need a way to make the experiment repeatable and unfalsifiable, because it will definitely face intense scrutiny. The slightest flaw, and it's done. I think that if it is possible to do a formal experiment, and if we have a separate website dedicated to it, then we will do it.

Uhh.. Take a look at nomads work. He lives in hawaii, raven, mosh, loaf, me, and everyone he's Dream shared with doesn't. I'm not saying it couldn't be brainwaves, but how do you explain the time difference? When me and Nomad shared a dream, I dreamed a bus came crashing through my school and I got on and saw nomad, nomad dreamed he crashed a bus through a school and I got on. Problem is, I was sleeping while he was typing up his dream journal entry.

Wow this forum is really taking off again. I think a shared dreamig website would be great. Would you rather make the website indipendant or ask dreamviews Inc to buy the domain. I am starting to believe that dreaming is an alternate reality. My plans to shared dream with my bro were put on hold till later. This is so exciting. I belive me and two others have shared conciousnes before. My brother being one of them. After that we have had more experiences of possible thought sharing. So I think this will make our attempt sucessfull.

I think if we all got good at shared dreaming we should designate a location for us to meet. Suggestions are welcome.

I'm kind of improvising as I go here, but I think this is what we would need for the experiment to be successful:
- Completely separate from DV. No admins or mods from DV, only for the reason that we want to be able to run independently.
- This is where it gets confusing. I think we would need a forum that is hidden from the general public, so that we could discuss the experiment without giving any details to the public or the participants before the experiment.
- We would need a public page from which people could sign up to be part of the experiment. The participants would have to be sworn to secrecy (I don't mean they can't share the website, but they can't disclose any details such as where or when), or they might share too much with another participant and invalidate the experiment. They would also have to swear not to sign up to any LDing websites or forums, or again the results might be invalid because of too much communication between participants.
- I suggest an email address dedicated to the project, so that we can receive applications.
- We will need a tutorial on how to LD that doesn't link to any other websites.
- Obviously, patience will be a major virtue for all involved. This is a very long term project. We might not be able to hold the actual experiment for a year or two, because of the complications in teaching people to LD and the time it will take to gather enough participants.
- I don't know what the financial requirements will be, but we will need to transport 100-200 people to a central location, separately. Once they're there, we'll need to keep them under monitoring 24/7 for at least a week. The long time span is to allow people to have multiple trials, because a person might not be able to do it on the first try.
- To conduct the experiment, we'd give a certain number of the people (less than half) some code, and tell them to tell the person in their dream the code. If it works, then it's a success. If not, it hasn't worked.
- It might actually be a good idea to allow the people to talk to their partner before hand, to allow them to familiarize themselves with the look of the person. What we can't do is allow any communication after we've given half the code.
If I think of anything else, I'll post again. I think that this is the only way we can do this, and even though it will require a lot of patience, and some money, and will be very hard, I think it's doable.
The thing is, it wouldn't be us doing the experiment. It would be a group of volunteers.

Thank Firefox for being open to an addon that saved my post, even though the forum logged me out!

EDIT: I think this is definitely a group project. Above all, it will take patience and persistence. We'll have to support each other in the effort, and not give up even if we think it's doomed to failure. I think the first problem, assuming we get the website running, will be to gather enough participants. This will need time to rise to the top of Google results, and at first the pace of recruits will be very slow. Although DV and other LDing websites can link to us to help us, we can't link back, and many people will be reluctant to link to us for nothing (DV probably will, and we can put it in our signatures.). If we do rise to the top of Google, though, participants should come quickly.
When you do create the website, and the private forums, I can try to halp with some of the setting up process. I think I will be able to turn forum permission off to anyone who isn't from DV, but I'll need access to the admin CP for that.

The great thing about this is, before today I had no real confidence that we could actually set up an experiment. Now I have a lot of extra confidence in this. khellofthewired deserves a thanks from all of us for reviving this topic.

- Completely separate from DV. No admins or mods from DV, only for the reason that we want to be able to run independently.

I agree

- This is where it gets confusing. I think we would need a forum that is hidden from the general public, so that we could discuss the experiment without giving any details to the public or the participants before the experiment.

I agree that's not hard if you understand web editing

- We would need a public page from which people could sign up to be part of the experiment. The participants would have to be sworn to secrecy (I don't mean they can't share the website, but they can't disclose any details such as where or when), or they might share too much
with another participant and invalidate the experiment. They would also have to swear not to sign up to any LDing websites or forums, or again the results might be invalid because of too much communication between participants.

True, True

- I suggest an email address dedicated to the project, so that we can receive applications.

Web domains allow you to do that easily.

- We will need a tutorial on how to LD that doesn't link to any other websites.

I can write well, Don't let my dream count fool you I have had more lucids. This is just my latest attempt

- Obviously, patience will be a major virtue for all involved. This is a very long term project. We might not be able to hold the actual experiment for a year or two, because of the complications in teaching people to LD and the time it will take to gather enough participants.

Yes and a PHD wouldn't hurt lol.

- I don't know what the financial requirements will be, but we will need to transport 100-200 people to a central location, separately. Once they're there, we'll need to keep them under monitoring 24/7 for at least a week. The long time span is to allow people to have multiple trials, because a person might not be able to do it on the first try.

Yeah True, Something like the nova dreamer could help though. I also think that pulling strangers from the same city into a mobile command center would work well also. And moving from city to city.

- To conduct the experiment, we'd give a certain number of the people (less than half) some code, and tell them to tell the person in their dream the code. If it works, then it's a success. If not, it hasn't worked.

Right The way the code is conveyed would be critical. Perhaps maybe an outfit would work.

- It might actually be a good idea to allow the people to talk to their partner before hand, to allow them to familiarize themselves with the look of the person. What we can't do is allow any communication after we've given half the code.

Well good stuff. It would be cool if you could PM me with some information about yourself. And we could talk more sensitive information on there.

DOUBLE POST yes i know

My suggestion for a meeting place...

Stonehenge

According to WIKIPEDIA

Stonehenge is a prehistoric monument located in the English county of Wiltshire, about 3.2 kilometres (2.0 mi) west of Amesbury and 13 kilometres (8.1 mi) north of Salisbury. One of the most famous sites in the world, Stonehenge is composed of earthworks surrounding a circular setting of large standing stones. It is at the centre of the most dense complex of Neolithic and Bronze Age monuments in England, including several hundred burial mounds


Its a mystical place thought to be devoted to astronomy and the sky's vast expanse similar to that of your mind. I think it would be a great place to meet

I have a feeling this is going to go terribly wrong.

but it has not yet

Originally Posted by Loaf

I have a feeling this is going to go terribly wrong.

There's a good chance that it will. I think that the sooner we get the website running, the better. If we wait too long, there's a good chance we'll forget about it.

Originally Posted by Zebrah

DOUBLE POST yes i know

My suggestion for a meeting place...

Stonehenge

According to WIKIPEDIA

Stonehenge is a prehistoric monument located in the English county of Wiltshire, about 3.2 kilometres (2.0 mi) west of Amesbury and 13 kilometres (8.1 mi) north of Salisbury. One of the most famous sites in the world, Stonehenge is composed of earthworks surrounding a circular setting of large standing stones. It is at the centre of the most dense complex of Neolithic and Bronze Age monuments in England, including several hundred burial mounds


Its a mystical place thought to be devoted to astronomy and the sky's vast expanse similar to that of your mind. I think it would be a great place to meet

It's going to be hard for me to meet you anywhere - but I certainly don't see how I could go to Stonehenge. I live on Long Island, New York, and you live in Northern California. I'm not very mobile right now - might be different in a year or tow, but I certainly can't buy a plane ticket right now. In NYC, it might be possible this year. I'll be better at the conceptual part of this than the physical part of this, definitely.
Before anything else, though, I want to see the forum set up. I know myself, and if we put it off too long, it won't happen. (I don't mean the experiment, I mean the creation of the forum) We also have to figure out hosting and domain for the website.

EDIT: Wow. I had no idea you meant meeting in a dream. I thought you meant physical meeting.
This is a great idea, if we can get it off the ground. If we wait longer than a week or two, there's a good chance it will be totally forgotten, and never be more than an idea.

EDIT: Wow. I had no idea you meant meeting in a dream. I thought you meant physical meeting.
This is a great idea, if we can get it off the ground. If we wait longer than a week or two, there's a good chance it will be totally forgotten, and never be more than an idea.

Ho, Brah that was sooooo funny!! I was reading your post like "What, this guy thinks we gona all meet in real-time??" Then I got to your edit and just started rolling!!!! I was laughing so hard!!!! Hehe....