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    Thread: The cosmological redshift necessarily relates to how these observations are possible.

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      The cosmological redshift necessarily relates to how these observations are possible.

      How are telescopic/astronomical observations fundamentally possible? What of the blackness and constitution of outer space in relation to these observations?

      It occurs to me that the cosmological redshift is a gravitational redshift in keeping with making space more invisible and more visible, on balance. Invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance involves an inherent and fundamental stability of space and inertial/gravitational/electromagnetic energy. The fundamental equivalency of inertia and gravity has to be at work here.

      Gravity increases as space becomes increasingly invisible. On balance, objects are increasingly magnified or larger. Notice the large size of the Earth/ground in keeping with the fact that the space that it borders is the most invisible. Now consider that an object that we would drop gets smaller as it accelerates towards the Earth/ground. Now, the setting sun does involve a magnification/increase in its relative size and a flattening/contraction and stretching/expansion of the adjoining space which involves increasing transparency/invisibility. (Outer space is flat.) Is this not a telescoping effect?

      Consider that the actual/real/direct experience of outer space as it is destroys and precludes our being, thought, and experience (including visual experience).

      The fundamental, ultimate, and true equivalency and balancing of inertia and gravity involves visible and invisible space in fundamental balance and equilibrium.

      The fundamental, ultimate, and true equivalency and balancing of inertia, electromagnetism, and gravity involves visible and invisible space in fundamental balance and equilibrium. This has significant applicability here.

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      man, thats some good acid
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      The energy/brightness is reduced by the space becoming more invisible. Also, gravity involves pressure; and gravity also involves energy (of course).
      Think about it please.

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      Importantly, for the proper and complete understanding of this very important thread, please also see the thread: "Why dream experience is fundamental and so very important" under Extended Discussion. Thanks.

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      The Earth is also a larger object/observation within a smaller space (relatively, that is). Full gravity is full distance in/of space, right? Electromagnetism, inertia, and gravity are all fundamentally related, right?

      Consider the reduction in peripheral vision/visual experience very carefully.

      Notice the variable depth/distance of the astronomical observations. The space is contracted/flattened and stretched/expanded. The Sun involves enormous pressure. Think about it please. The cosmological redshift is a gravitational redshift.

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      Quote Originally Posted by FrankDiMeglio View Post
      The Earth is also a larger object/observation within a smaller space (relatively, that is). Full gravity is full distance in/of space, right? Electromagnetism, inertia, and gravity are all fundamentally related, right?

      Consider the reduction in peripheral vision/visual experience very carefully.

      Notice the variable depth/distance of the astronomical observations. The space is contracted/flattened and stretched/expanded. The Sun involves enormous pressure. Think about it please. The cosmological redshift is a gravitational redshift.
      Makes sense to me

      Kind of. I can quote the sentences i do not understand, if that is what you like?

      What I do understand is ur question of Electromagnetism inertia and gravity. The answer is yes, they are related. I would say so.
      I understand that what you are saying is that the redshift is a gravitational shift. Time is a function of gravitational waves. Both theories are correct. I suspect that scientific theories will come soon.

      Time is essentially a function of quantum entanglement. This has been shown by this study: https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/d5d3dc850933 . Well not exactly, but it has been shown that Photon-particles and entanglement are the properties necessary for time to exist. It is only one step further to assume that Gravity works in exactly the same way. It is simply another system of electromagnetism.

      I have not thought this out as carefully as you did. Basically, to refer back to this study. The spin of a certain photon and it's inertia in relationship to other objects determins wether it becomes entangled in a common reality or if they simply avoid each other as if nothing ever happened.

      Not sure what you mean by half gravity? Would you care to explain? How does this relate to ur dream experiences, that is something i am quite interested to hear from you.

      Pressure is basically another word for Entropy. The more pressure you put into a system the more entropy. The observable universe is basically a reversed entropy system. This does not account for radiation that are not Gravity. Like the radiation of the sun. Which is more of a closed system that touches our system only on certain levels. On other levels the sun might as well be in another dimension as far as we are concerned? Just speculating.. But it sounds intuitively correct! Hard to explain

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      I think Mr Demeglio needs heavy doses of medication. Both visible and invisible with full gravity,
      going down throat.
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      Stick the medication where you deem fit in ur own body dave. If you don't have anything useful to say then It is simply my opinion here that you better shut up.
      Last edited by Dthoughts; 03-26-2014 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Vulgarity

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      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      Stick the medication where you deem fit in ur own body dave. If you don't have anything useful to say then It is simply my opinion here that you better shut up.
      My words are probably the most helpful words ever stated on this forum. thank you.
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      Quote Originally Posted by dave36333 View Post
      My words are probably the most helpful words ever stated on this forum. thank you.
      I'm not up for a discussion here, but telling a stranger to stick powerful medication up the throat in the most ridiculing matter you can muster is not helpful from where i'm standing.

      It doesn't look helpful at all when you consider that you probably had hardcore consciousness reducing medicine in mind like seroquel and the likes. Unless you consider creating zombies out of human beings helpful then i retract my opinion and rest my case.

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      More like Haldol , some tricyclics, a few xanax and a six pack of beer. Seroquel is not powerful enough

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      Dthoughts, thanks for your interest and questions. The ideas of touch, feeling, vision, and thought/the theoretical need to all be brought to bear in a consistent and matching fashion. That is very important. One of the significant shortcomings of the modern approach of physics is to consider physical reality and experience as only visual. The physicists try to be at z when they are not fundamentally and really at A through F. We always begin with typical/ordinary, common, and fundamental/foundational experiences in laying the groundwork of fundamental physical understandings/truths. The ultimate unification of physics combines, balances, and includes opposites.

      Consider how/that our motion is basically and fundamentally independent of electromagnetic space (e.g., the Sun and photons). Consider the white and black space (of outer space) as fully detached in relation to touch. Consider that the actual/real/direct experience of outer space as it is destroys and precludes our being, thought, and experience (including visual experience). Moreover and consistently, the visual experience of the Sun in outer space would destroy and preclude any such actual/real/direct visual experience of the sun. Furthermore, the ability of thought to describe or reconfigure sensory experience is ultimately dependent upon the extent to which thought is similar to sensory experience. Accordingly, the understanding of outer space is inherently and fundamentally limited.

      Direct bodily experience (seen, felt, and touched) is where we begin with our physical understanding. Thoughts are invisible, and they are certainly associated with the body and bodily experience. In the absence of inertial and gravitational equivalency and balancing there is no extension of space. Distance in/of space is fundamental. Dream experience is invisible. Dreams improve upon thought. Thoughts are invisible.

      Instantaneity has been swept under the rug by the modern physicists. Ultimately, time requires and involves instantaneity, gravity, and extensiveness of space. The eye is visible and invisible.

      Quantum gravity is present in dreams consistent with invisible and visible space in fundamental equilbrium and balance, the middle distance in/of space, and inertia and gravity in fundamental equilibrium and balance (this necessarily means half gravity and half inertia). Dreams involve fundamentally equivalent and balanced inertia, gravity, and electromagnetism.

      The Earth/ground is full gravity. The invisible space above it is half gravity and half inertia (and therefore a middle distance in/of space). Outer space is full inertia. Newton correctly believed that inertia must be a property of space itself. The otherwise visible space goes to/is invisible space in/as dream experience. Dream experience involves the middle distance in/of space consistent with half gravity and half inertia. The space of dream experience involves visible and invisible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance. This is the middle distance in/of space. Vision begins invisibly inside the eye/body. Vision extends invisibly in an undivided fashion into invisible space. Obviously, invisible space is also visible. Invisible space is a space. Visible space is seen with, through, and in invisible space. That is clear.

      Put the invisible space of the eye at the top of the head. Now, draw this invisible space at the top of the head to the center of the body. Now, draw the visible plane of the Earth/ground along with the visible experience of the body up to the center of the body. Dreams balance being and experience. Seen and felt/touched, dream experience involves fundamentally balanced invisible and visible space consistent with middle strength force/energy/feeling/touch and the experience of the middle distance in/of space. Dream experience is semi-detached in relation to touch/feeling consistent with a maximum of half of the touch/feeling that is experienced at the feet while waking and standing. Vision begins invisibly inside the eye/body.

      The self represents, forms, and experiences a comprehensive approximation of experience in general by combining conscious and unconscious experience. This is a very great truth/fact with tremendous physical/real applicability (or substance/significance). Dream experience is consistent with the fact that the self represents, forms, and experiences a comprehensive approximation of experience in general by combining conscious and unconscious experience. Indeed, if the self did not represent, form, and experience a comprehensive approximation of experience in general by combining conscious and unconscious experience, we would then be incapable of growth and of becoming other than we are. Dream experience grows/increases. Dreams are separate from, and yet they are fundamentally and undeniably linked with, waking experience.

      The fundamental and true unification of electromagnetism and gravity requires fundamental and true inertial and gravitational equilibrium and balance. This requires and involves half gravity and half inertia of necessity.

      Importantly, for the proper and complete understanding of this very important thread, please also see the thread: "Why dream experience is fundamental and so very important" under Extended Discussion. Thanks.
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      As far as i understand, dreams are a phenomenom relating to Quantum Gravity. I would certainly agree. They are not just a product of the brain. As far as i know, vision begins in the eye. Fundamentally linked to occupital lobes because when you destroy those parts of the brain, vision seizes to exist. That is as far as i understand vision, personally.

      I like where you are going with traveling to the sun. I have wrestled with the same thoughts regarding time travel in space. Basically, it is impossible for humans to time travel or travel close to the sun. Thus, what mechanism stops us from reaching these distant places and is there a way around it? I am inclined to believe that doing time travel and basically bending space-time involves a conscious process that ultimately disposes the body and consciousness. Not sure where i'm going with this but I would consider that the external world (like the dream world) is part of the unconscious and is completely malleable and bendable and does exactly so when traveling at or near the speed of light!

      I think the most important part of ur threads, frank, is that dreams are indeed just a real as reality. Maybe more so. But really, that is nothing new for some of us here on this forum. It is especially in the outer world deprived of the internet where people consider dreams as fantasy. Mainly because they do not dream them selves so they do not understand. I truly advise you to focus attention on those people and spread the word while using the brain and the heart interchangeably.

      Speak with the heart and remember that language is a matter of shared perspective/experience.

      Good luck and much love to you sir!

      D
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      As far as i understand, dreams are a phenomenom relating to Quantum Gravity. I would certainly agree. They are not just a product of the brain. As far as i know, vision begins in the eye. Fundamentally linked to occupital lobes because when you destroy those parts of the brain, vision seizes to exist. That is as far as i understand vision, personally.

      I like where you are going with traveling to the sun. I have wrestled with the same thoughts regarding time travel in space. Basically, it is impossible for humans to time travel or travel close to the sun. Thus, what mechanism stops us from reaching these distant places and is there a way around it? I am inclined to believe that doing time travel and basically bending space-time involves a conscious process that ultimately disposes the body and consciousness. Not sure where i'm going with this but I would consider that the external world (like the dream world) is part of the unconscious and is completely malleable and bendable and does exactly so when traveling at or near the speed of light!

      I think the most important part of ur threads, frank, is that dreams are indeed just a real as reality. Maybe more so. But really, that is nothing new for some of us here on this forum. It is especially in the outer world deprived of the internet where people consider dreams as fantasy. Mainly because they do not dream them selves so they do not understand. I truly advise you to focus attention on those people and spread the word while using the brain and the heart interchangeably.

      Speak with the heart and remember that language is a matter of shared perspective/experience.

      Good luck and much love to you sir!

      D
      I agree Mr Thought. If only Frank can break free of his mental health issues he may be able to communicate more clearly and show more / Any heart to those trying to understand him.
      This is his major problem with everyone it appears, but I think its an effect of a baseline Anxiety/ Depressive disorder that he doesnt think he has. Im not a trained psychiatrist but Im a person of common sense that knows when people by their actions/ reactions have a problem.

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      Reply requested by the owner and site administrator of this forum

      gab, you are playing the jerk you back and forth (good guy/bad guy) game again. This is not a game, unless this forum is a joke. This forum is about advancing the understanding gab, not about you personally ridiculing and insulting me. Who is your supervisor here gab? Who is the site administrator of this forum? Who owns this forum?

      In the absence of fundamental inertial and gravitational equivalency and balancing there is (and there can be) no experience or extensiveness of space. Inertia and gravity are held to be opposites. However, the ultimate understanding of physics combines, balances, and includes opposites. The physicists admit that they still cannot explain inertial and gravitational equivalency and balancing. Inertial and gravitational equivalency is established as a fact in physics, however. Full gravity is a collapse of space, and full inertia would disperse space. The direct/real/full experience of outer space as it is destroys and precludes us, our thought, and our experience (including visual experience).

      Newton believed that inertia must be a property of space itself.

      What is of concern here is stabilized distance in/of space.

      The Earth/ground: Full distance in/of space, full sphere, full gravity, and visible space.
      The invisible space above it is half inertia and half gravity consistent with the fact that this is a middle distance in/of space between outer space (full inertia) and the Earth/ground (full gravity). The invisible space above the Earth/ground extends to outer space as well. The visual experience of the space (obviously, it is a space) above the Earth/ground is both visible and invisible/not visible. Invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance is the middle distance in/of space (clearly, logically, and fundamentally) consistent with half gravity and half inertia. (This is understood as involving a sort of cancelling/balancing). Inertia and gravity are in then in balance, as position and position relative to distance in/of space are both accounted for/consistent (i.e., as middle distance in/of space). Vision begins invisibly inside the eye/body.

      Dreams balance being and experience. Vision begins invisibly inside the eye/body. The experience of the eye is both visible and invisible. Think about it. Dreams may involve visual experience. This visual experience is visible (to the dreamer) and invisible/not visible (to others). The visual experience in/as dream experience is both visible and invisible/not visible. Inertia and gravity are in then in balance, as position and position relative to distance in/of space are both accounted for/consistent; dream experience is that of the middle distance in/of space (seen and felt/touched.)

      Dreams combine, balance, and include opposites.

      Dream experience fully and consistently involves the following as well: Invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance is the middle distance in/of space (clearly, logically, and fundamentally) consistent with half gravity and half inertia.

      The invisible space is the middle distance in/of space. We have extensiveness of being and experience in conjunction with visible and invisible/not visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance. The invisible experience of the eye along with the invisible (and seamless/undivided) space are middle distances. The visual and visible experience of space is invisible all the way to the Earth/ground, and yet the visible body extends all the way to the Earth/ground (while waking and standing) as well. This averages to a middle distance (visible and invisible/not visible). (The body is visible and invisible. Vision begins invisibly inside the eye/body.) The plane of space is invisible at the top of the head/body, and the plane of space at the Earth/ground is visible. Consider the range of feeling/touch while waking and standing. Now, dream experience is that of the middle distance in/of space (seen and felt/touched) consistent with visual experience and invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance. This necessarily involves half inertia and half gravity. Notice the balanced middle strength gravitational/electromagnetic/inertial energy/force/touch/feeling in/as dream experience. Accordingly, dream experience is semi-detached in relation to touch. Note the maximum of half or middle strength force/energy/feeling/touch in relation to the maximum feeling/touch while waking and standing that is experienced at the feet. Dream experience is possible/potential and actual experience. Dreams involve fundamentally equivalent and balanced inertia, gravity, and electromagnetism.

      Invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance is the middle distance in/of space consistent with half inertia and half gravity. This is consistent with dream experience, and this is consistent with the invisible space that extends between the Earth/ground and outer space.

      Balance and equilibrium are found at the center. Importantly, balance and completeness/extensiveness go hand-in-hand.

      Here is a gigantic, very clear, undeniable, central, extremely important, and fundamental/foundational unification of physics, physical reality, and physical experience.

      I am respectfully requesting a reply from the site administrator and owner of this forum. Author Frank DiMeglio
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      ^^ Since you refuse to reply to any of us, Frank; why on earth should anyone reply back to you?

      Also, as Gab is one of the few folks here who have chosen not to ridicule you, Frank, I think you owe her an apology.
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      My mate! You got my attention. Please do not worry about the forum owner.

      I want to thank you for broadcasting this information in a format in which i can understand. All this without paying a penny! I would have never bought your book anyway.. No offense. I simply do not buy books very often.

      Half Inertia. Half Gravity. Equilibrium. Check.

      Dream sensory experience. No inertia, no gravity. Check

      Visual space? Electromagnetism.. Spherical objects? I am not completely there yet..
      I will get there.

      Going to sleep now, first

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      Hey Frank. I too some of your ideas and i eventually stumbled upon this paper (2010).

      I thought you and others might find it interesting. A New Cosmological Model for the Visible Universe and its Implications.

      It's a marvelous paper, I thought it reaffirms some of ur ideas such as,

      The space is contracted/flattened and stretched/expanded. The Sun involves enormous pressure. Think about it please. The cosmological redshift is a gravitational redshift.
      Or this,
      I think it reaffirms some of these ideas as well. Mainly, that spherical objects have gravity/inertia balance. And the article blatantly states that the earth is at the absolute center of the universe. A logical next step for me is to consider that each and every object is at the center of the universe. Including our eyes/body center of attention, if you know what I mean.

      The Earth/ground: Full distance in/of space, full sphere, full gravity, and visible space.
      The invisible space above it is half inertia and half gravity consistent with the fact that this is a middle distance in/of space between outer space (full inertia) and the Earth/ground (full gravity). The invisible space above the Earth/ground extends to outer space as well. The visual experience of the space (obviously, it is a space) above the Earth/ground is both visible and invisible/not visible. Invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance is the middle distance in/of space (clearly, logically, and fundamentally) consistent with half gravity and half inertia. (This is understood as involving a sort of cancelling/balancing). Inertia and gravity are in then in balance, as position and position relative to distance in/of space are both accounted for/consistent (i.e., as middle distance in/of space). Vision begins invisibly inside the eye/body.
      Just spreading the word

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      Hi Dthoughts. Thanks for keeping an open mind and for being respectful, considerate, and thoughtful.

      The experience of the eye is the experience of the body, and it is (or it matches) the space that we are in. The eye/body is visible and invisible. Think hard on that one. It's worth it. Then think more. Vision begins invisibly inside the eye/body.

      Full inertia and full electromagnetism may be associated with flat space. Regarding the visual extension of space, full gravity is full distance in/of space as it is seen, felt, and touched. Stand upright and look down at the Earth/ground. Consider the range of feeling/touch.

      ------------------------
      Dreams are not creations of thought, and they cannot be held to be hallucinations either. Dreams are separate from, and yet they are undeniably and fundamentally linked with, our being and our experience. The mistake among the dream theorists is to hold that dreams are entirely/only separate experiences. Dreams balance being and experience. Dreams make thought more like sensory experience in general, thereby improving upon memory and understanding. Television is a creation of thought, as it is fully like thought. Dream experience is semi-detached in relation to touch. Television is fully detached in relation to touch. Dream experience is possible/potential and actual.

      I have proven in my work that dreams involve equivalent and balanced inertia and gravity. Accordingly, dream experience is that of the middle distance in/of space, with invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance.

      Waking experience is at the actual end of the spectrum. Half gravity and half inertia in dreams (middle distance). Dreams are in the middle. Television is at the potential end of the spectrum. Dream experience is possible/potential and actual. Dreams balance being and experience. Think about it hard.

      Notice how the body may appear as either invisible or visible in dreams. Dream experience is that of the middle distance in/of space, and dreams balance being and experience. These are great ideas, and they are facts.

      The blue (exteriorised) sky forms a half of a sphere, as it is half falling, circular, translucent. The flat, orange/red sun (at a right angle thereto); is this not an "interiorised" representation of the Earth? What of the orange magma/lava in (and) on the Earth/ground? Here is a good one. The slight curvature of the moon matches the slight curvature of the Earth/ground. The nature of electromagnetism is possible/potential. The real/direct/actual experience of outer space as it is (including the sun in outer space) precludesd and destroys us, our thought, our experience, and our visual experience.

      The fundamentals are just not there in the modern approach. Newton was right that inertia must be a property of space itself. Outer space is full inertia. Television is full electromagnetism and full inertia.

      This is fundamental to physics: Invisible and visible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance is the middle distance in/of space (clearly, logically, and fundamentally) consistent with half gravity and half inertia. Invisible space is semi-detached in relation to touch. Outer space is detached in relation to touch. Visible space is not detached in relation to touch.

      There is no extension of space, body/bodily experience, and visual experience in the absence of real, fundamental, and true inertial and gravitational equivalency, equilibrium, and balance. Stablized and fundamental distance in/of space as it is seen, felt, and touched is fundamental. Is the eye (the experience of the eye) not in possible/potential/actual form? Is the eye/body not quantum mechanical/quantum gravitational in nature? The eye is visible and invisible. The body is visible and invisible. Think.

      Dreams are definitely quantum gravity.

      Dreams balance being and experience. A huge truth/fact. Think about it.

      My ideas merit very serious consideration. That is clear.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      Hey Frank. I too some of your ideas and i eventually stumbled upon this paper (2010).

      I thought you and others might find it interesting. A New Cosmological Model for the Visible Universe and its Implications.
      It's a marvelous paper, I thought it reaffirms some of ur ideas such as, ...
      Or this, ...
      I think it reaffirms some of these ideas as well. Mainly, that spherical objects have gravity/inertia balance. And the article blatantly states that the earth is at the absolute center of the universe. A logical next step for me is to consider that each and every object is at the center of the universe. Including our eyes/body center of attention, if you know what I mean.

      Just spreading the word
      Here's a link to the whole thing:
      Spherical Shell Cosmological Model and Uniformity of Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation


      And as far as I am able to follow that paper - it is meant to explain the uniformity of space without Inflation Theory.

      Back when it was written - the ultimate proof for Inflation was yet pending and people doubted it.
      This year, though, the gravitational waves, which were predicted by Inflation Theory have been found:
      http://www.dreamviews.com/science-ma...nal-waves.html

      Again as far as I understand matters - all models, which are based on something other than Inflation, are out the window by now.
      I can't see any connection to DiMeglio's "theories" either, to be honest.
      Interesting, how you come up with such papers - where did you find it?
      Looks like a valid attempt to explain matters - just unfortunately not quite right.

      Imagine it like this - if you were on a ship in the ocean, and you maybe climb up the mast, so that your horizon is even a bit wider - looking in all directions - the sea looks the same. Just as if you were at the centre of the world, which is visible to you.

      The earthly horizon depends on where you stand to look and the curvature of the earth - quite easy to calculate, actually.
      Same with the event horizon - just how far away from us it is, is defined by the speed of light.
      Things, from which the light didn't have enough time yet to arrive here can't be seen by us.
      If you look from somewhere else - you'll have different things to look at in your scope - aliens far away from us can see stars, which are invisible for us, so to speak.

      So it looks, as if we were at the centre, naturally - and that we find uniformity in all directions can be explained with the inflationary expansion after the Big Bang.

      Please correct me anybody, if I got physics wrong here - posted from the top of my head.

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      Dream experience is quantum gravity. Quantum gravity requires gravity and inertia in fundamental equilibrium and balance. This means half gravity and half inertia, obviously. Quantum gravity involves visible and invisible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance. This involves balanced and middle distance in/of space. Our experience of space is necessarily and fundamentally that of the middle distance in/of space.

      You all are avoiding the contents of what I am presenting here, and let's eliminate the personal insults that are posted at this forum.

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      Dream experience and telescopic/astronomical observations both involve a contraction/flattening and stretching/expansion of space.

    23. #23
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      No one is ignoring you, Frank, and no one has insulted you since your friend Dave left us weeks ago. If you ever took a moment to read our posts, you would know that.

      Also, Frank, we have repeatedly asked you, respectfully and thoughtfully, for clarifications of your proclamations, and all we ever get is more cut and pastes of the same words we did not understand before, and no actual confirmation from you that we ever even asked a question.

      I think your refusal to discuss these things with us is far more insulting than anything even Dave said; a little respect from you would be most welcome. Oh, and by the way something is not proven because you said it, please offer some more proof than just "I said so."

    24. #24
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      I think you're wasting your time, Sageous. Best just let him ramble to himself. If there is truth to what he says (whatever he actually is saying), I'm sure a more...... "normal" person will work it out.

    25. #25
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      ^^ Yeah, I know I'm wasting my time; I guess In my heart I keep hoping for some breakthrough where we get an actual coherent response from Frank, but in truth I'm just playing at this point. Besides, folks like Steph and Dthoughts are doing a much better job at getting to Frank's truth, or lack thereof, than he is himself, so at least there is some value other than entertainment value to hang out here...
      Last edited by Sageous; 04-15-2014 at 01:37 AM.
      Dthoughts and splodeymissile like this.

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