Show me where the separation between foam and the probability wave particles exist. |
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I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. Theoretical quantum foam for which there is no evidence could only exist in the vacuum of space, as the presence of mass causes decoherence. The particles that make up the human body are many (and I do mean many) orders of magnitude larger than any theoretical quantum foam fluctuations anyway, as are the particles that make up the particles. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Show me where the separation between foam and the probability wave particles exist. |
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Last edited by Cyclic13; 02-20-2009 at 09:03 AM.
The Art of War <---> Videos
Remember: be open to anything, but question everything
"These paradoxical perceptions of our holonic higher mind are but finite fleeting constructs of the infinite ties that bind." -ME
I don't even know what you're asking. "probability wave particles" don't exist. Quantum foam has never been observed so it may not exist. So far the difference is one doesn't exist and the other may or may not. I don't want to be rude, but it seems like you are taking terms and phrases and using them out of context without really knowing what they mean. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 02-20-2009 at 10:25 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
I understand that there isn't an official coined term of "probabilistic wave particle". |
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Last edited by Cyclic13; 02-20-2009 at 02:21 PM.
The Art of War <---> Videos
Remember: be open to anything, but question everything
"These paradoxical perceptions of our holonic higher mind are but finite fleeting constructs of the infinite ties that bind." -ME
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LOl that's what I meant some time ago. What you define as "consciousness" is an illusion. The only consciousness human beings have is self-consciousness. |
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Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
LOL Nobody is putting words in your mouth LOL you just need to speak a bit more eloquently, perhaps. LOLOL. |
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Don't blame your misunderstandings on me, seriously. You might have missed the word "more" in my sentence. |
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Last edited by Kromoh; 02-20-2009 at 08:06 PM.
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
That's a valid question. I believe the answer lies in connecting to that 'source'. If a dream character were able to get your attention and you allowed them access into your mind, they would be experiencing that 'beyond reality' understanding firsthand. If you could imagine what it would be like to make another person feel an emotion or a thought or understanding directly from your own head without words or pictures, that's the kind of thing that would be going on here. I have no idea how the psychic connection to a dream character would work (it would make a great lucid task though). The whole idea with meditating to reach that state of Nirvana would accomplish the same thing, wouldn't you agree? Do you think it's possible that even many of the different alleged prophets throughout human history might have had a brief moment of connection with this source? Their limited human perception would be responsible for the different interpretations of the information they had been exposed to, which would then lead to the creation of different deities or god-beings to explain the experience, even though they all came from the same place, so to speak. Does that make any sense at all? I can elaborate further if need be, as the idea is still "under construction". |
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That actually makes a lot of sense. Whether or not this connection has ever actually been made (in terms of humans experiencing a truly transcendental perspective) is, of course, open to debate - victim to uncertainty - but I definitely hold no serious doubt to the idea. The flip side, though, is that perhaps the "transcendental" perspectives which are experienced are byproducts of the human brain attempting to create a convincing experience (akin to the battle between people believing OOBEs are actual extra-physical experiences, or simply dreams that feel like extra-physical experiences). But, again, by posing the conflicting concepts, I'm not trying to spin it either way. |
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 02-21-2009 at 01:02 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
First I want to say I'm thrilled at the quality of debate in this topic and this sub forum in general. Especially now that people are starting to ignore Kromoh. I honestly believe life is really a dream, and the first rule of dreaming according to me is that everything requires your attention to exist. If Kromoh's stance is that reality is an illusion, he's certainly displayed an affinity for that aspect of dream control over reality. |
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Last edited by The Cusp; 02-21-2009 at 08:14 AM.
Hahaha, absolutely. I'm sure that once we gain a much deeper and intuitive understanding of the brain and what it's capable of, we may seriously be able to tell if these experiences are legitimate or not. Just bear in mind that consciousness by itself isn't even dependent on the brain, as was demonstrated roughly one hundred years ago by the famous Bengali scientist Jagadish Chandra Bose, and more recently by Cleve Backster with respect to their studies of consciousness in plants. I believe there's more information on Backster today, so a quick google search should bring up plenty of results. If we as humans can have conscious experience of something without the aid of the brain, then that, my friend, says a great deal about everything we're talking about. That certainly doesn't mean that these "mystical experiences" can't be fabrications of the brain though, as I'm sure our hallucinogenic abilities are quite potent. And even if trancendental experience was proven to a fault, we might have a hard time differentiating them from the "realistic dreams" as it were. |
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Bah. I was actually refuting to the "everything requires your attention to exist" mentioned in the video, you know. If you didn't get that from my posts, sorry for that. Truth is, when "you" are paying attention (and by "you" I mean the bunch of atoms you are made of), things do exist, but if things also exist when you aren't paying attention is an unsolvable mystery. |
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Last edited by Kromoh; 02-24-2009 at 08:34 PM.
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 02-25-2009 at 12:13 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
“To dream anything that you want to dream. That's the beauty of the human mind. To do anything that you want to do. That is the strength of the human will. To trust yourself to test your limits. That is the courage to succeed.” - Bernard Edmonds
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
Kromoh, what use is there in your point of view? What does it accomplish? It seems like you are trying to undermine the entire range of human perception by applying some sort of imagined absolutist view to it. Maybe you don't experience anything, but I do. Perhaps you don't agree with the definition of experience, but I know that I accomplish the act of perception, which is the same as experiencing. Otherwise I couldn't participate in this conversation. It seems like since we can't know for sure the absolute true nature of the world and what goes on with our relation to it, that you think we should throw out all of our concepts associated with that relationship (meaning all human concepts). |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 02-25-2009 at 10:02 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Last edited by JustSoSick; 02-25-2009 at 11:23 PM.
“To dream anything that you want to dream. That's the beauty of the human mind. To do anything that you want to do. That is the strength of the human will. To trust yourself to test your limits. That is the courage to succeed.” - Bernard Edmonds
Are you talking to me? I've been preaching "everything requires your attention to exist" for almost a year now! I'm quite familiar with the concept, and also know it's possible to focus on things that don't exist. Like the fact that you seem to think I'm diametrically opposed to what you're saying, when I clearly haven't said anything of the sort. |
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Last edited by The Cusp; 03-02-2009 at 03:45 PM.
LOL. The "focus on things that don't exist". You don't really grasp the idea of 'focus" scientists and philosophers mean. It's not human focus. Humans can very easily believe lies, that's true. But to think our mind is some sort of parallel, intangible entity that can "focus" on reality.. well that is just stupid. |
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Last edited by Kromoh; 03-02-2009 at 11:40 PM.
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
The idea is not that something - such as the cat - "doesn't exist." For something to "not exist" that means to not be, in any form. The concept is about the cat being a "superposition" of states. That means simultaneously existing in all states, and collapsing into its visible, "physical" state, upon observation. |
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 03-03-2009 at 12:48 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
No, that is not believer stuff. That is misinterpretation of scientific facts. As I said many times before, a bunch of ignorants who read an article about quantum physics and think they know enough to make conclusions. That postulation is more of a thing made to ensure scientific accuracy, lol |
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Last edited by Kromoh; 03-03-2009 at 01:49 AM.
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
Where, exactly, is the misinterpretation? You say "the postulation is more of a thing made to ensure scientific accuracy," when the postulation has been argued, by some quantum physicists themselves to mean exactly what I've implied. That is why I brought it up. |
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 03-03-2009 at 02:28 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
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Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever. |
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Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
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