Thread: If matter cant be created or destroyed, where did all this stuff come from?

Someone move this to R/S, quick.

You guys are right it makes absolutely no sense.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

I believe people should be allowed to hold whatever beliefs they want, as long as they don't impact on others*, and they have no right to force them on others

I agree, but...
*Sigh*, since it's obvious that this discussion is going nowhere (and has ceased to become a discussion, but has degenerated into a petty squabble), why don't we agree to disagree; I can go on with my life, letting people believe and practice as they wish, and still respect them as human beings (yes, everyone is entitled to, at the very least, a small degree of respect), and you can go on doing...whatever it is you do...

Originally Posted by Photolysis

I don't go preach or knock...I'm just doing what you are: "Posting my opinions on a small corner of the Internet in a topic discussing such issues (i.e. which invites such opinions) which no one is forced to read in any way is not doing anything."

Except you're criticizing me for doing so under the guise of not allowing people to "live and let live", which is laughable. I'm not criticizing you for this, that's the difference. One of us is being a hypocrite, and it isn't me.

Umm...I wasn't criticizing you for "preaching and knocking", I didn't even say you were doing any of this. I was expressing my belief that you shouldn't label others as "stupid" because they have a spiritual belief that is not based on evidence. I didn't say that you had to change, I was simply disagreeing...based on my beliefs, which you seem so adamant to try and shoot down.

All I've been trying to say is that people with spiritual beliefs are not inferior to those individuals who choose to live a secular life. For whatever reason, this has been a hard concept to grasp for people on both sides of the spectrum.
Solution: (going back to photolysis’s quote) people with religious/spiritual beliefs need to just let the secular community believe what they believe, and the secular community needs to let the spiritual community be as well. Persons within one sphere of beliefs can coexist with people in the other sphere.

Everything WAS created, and it CAN be destroyed. Everything is possible. This law is bullshit... and it has no proof at all. Just because we can't totallty destoy matter with our technology on this planet, doesn't mean it's impossible.

We destroy matter in nuclear reactions

It turns into energy which is released as heat, electromagnetic and compression waves 8D

...But how does energy become matter?

actually roxxor, this question might be a part of the answer. quantum physics might get to this point soon. expecially finding out what these string IN energy are :S

tbh we don't really 'turn matter into energy' in nuclear reactions... all of the particles are still there. It's just that when they decrease their total potential energy (via rearrangement of the forces between particles, namely electromagnetic and strong), the particles weigh less.

You can make energy become matter too... you can fire two particles at each other and sometimes the kinetic energy is converted to the mass of new particles.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

It turns into energy which is released as heat, electromagnetic and compression waves 8D

...But how does energy become matter?

An example:

When the protons are accelerated to near light-speed in the Large Hadron Collider there is a moment of transition. When the energy added to the particle can't add to velocity, it has to add to the mass. Matter is created from energy.

The protons can't get faster, so they get heavier. In the last stage the protons is 7000 times heavier than at rest. That is

This video is very educational, I like it.

http://ing.dk/artikel/92168-saadan-v...kelaccelerator

Originally Posted by Xei

You can make energy become matter too... you can fire two particles at each other and sometimes the kinetic energy is converted to the mass of new particles.

woa, seriously. cool

So mass is lost, but the particles are all still accounted for...?

Depends tbh. In something like U235 decay no particles are destroyed, the nucleons just end up weighing less.

However they're not always conserved... I can't remember the reaction but I know that if you give a collision enough energy totally new massive particles can be created.

That's what they're trying to do with the Higgs Boson I believe, but it's very massive.

There's a short article on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_creation

Originally Posted by Xei

Depends tbh. In something like U235 decay no particles are destroyed, the nucleons just end up weighing less.

However they're not always conserved... I can't remember the reaction but I know that if you give a collision enough energy totally new massive particles can be created.

That's what they're trying to do with the Higgs Boson I believe, but it's very massive.

Yup, Xei makes a great point! If you actually think about it, there is no such thing as a dynamic physical vacuum when it comes to particles especially when you consider that the level of activity that coincides with filling the vacuum is set by energy in which the vacuum is "observed" This treads very closely if not right at Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. If we look within an atom, much of the activity is carried by what is called "virtual photons" these photons mediate electromagnetic force and by the occasional electron-positron pairs that appear and then in-turn vanish and re-appear.

Within an atom, much of the activity is carried by virtual photons that regulates the electromagnetic force, and by the occasional electron-positron pairs that seems to appear and then vanish. The voids only "Appear" to not contain matter nor energy but in the quantum world particles are extremely active as they come and go created out of quantum fluctuations.

another thing i would like to add:if we want ot find about the initial state or before the big bang let' stake it this way:blackholes.
all the matter sucked into them goes to a point where gravity is infinit and time unexistent or slowed down.
so we might supose that the universe has always passed threw these states but the main question is this how can pure energy be transformed into matter and i fit's possible where did that energy come from?

Returning to the original point of this thread for a moment, then yes, it certainly might be true what you're saying. There's no way for us to scientifically disprove something, that is beyond the laws of our science. However, at the same time, you can't scientifcally prove anything in regards to this theory either.

In the end, judging from some of your posts in here, you really just want a creator to exist, so that our existance doesn't become meaningless. The fact of the matter though, is that from everything we know now, from looking at how the universe is moving around, the Big Bang is most likely the start of how our universe is currently looking.

The universe in its current state has been around for about 14 billion years, supposedly. The Earth has been around for abound 4.5 billion years. From what we can see, life did not form before things settled down a bit on Earth, which took about 0.7 billion years. It took another 3.78 billion years before anything resembling current day humans emerged.
My point is that it is very unlikely, that humans were intelligently designed, it's very unlikely that the universe was created with humans in mind, it's very unlikely that the universe was created with anything in mind and it's very unlikely that the universe was created by anything that can have the human concept of consciousness or thought-process assigned to it.

If you have ever read the Watchmen comic or atleast seen the motioncomic/movie, you will maybe remember a very enlightening scene from Mars. Mr. Manhattan points out the fact, that the Martian landscapes are just as fascinating as humans. Do not forget this, because we really aren't more than Martian landscapes. Our concepts of knowing anything, changing anything, having power, they are all something that is made up by the human mind, and also limited to the human mind and other organisms that can think in the same way.

The universe doesn't care about us and it never will.

Alright, everyone ready- Sometime in the future we realize that the universe is going to be (insert apocalyptic shit here) At this we have the ability to create worm holes. We setup two worm holes on opposite sides of the universe. It sucks everything in to forms of pure energy- these collide and create matter and antimatter
TADA THE FUCKING STRING THEORY OR SOMETHING

Originally Posted by Klaudyw3

another thing i would like to add:if we want ot find about the initial state or before the big bang let' stake it this way:blackholes.
all the matter sucked into them goes to a point where gravity is infinit and time unexistent or slowed down.
so we might supose that the universe has always passed threw these states but the main question is this how can pure energy be transformed into matter and i fit's possible where did that energy come from?

TWO BEAMS OF FUCKING PURE ENERGY COLLIDE AND GO FUCKING BOOM.
Excuse my state of drunkness.

Everything is where it always was, doing what it's always done. It just looks different from where you're standing.

Check this out, I might have pulled this clip off this website that someone posted, but I don't really remember where I found it.

The particles they accelerate in the LHC gain mass as they approach the speed of light (attempting to add more kinetic energy to the particles to find they just keep gaining more and more mass like Xei entailed).

http://ing.dk/artikel/92168-saadan-v...kelaccelerator

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

Check this out, I might have pulled this clip off this website that someone posted, but I don't really remember where I found it.

The particles they accelerate in the LHC gain mass as they approach the speed of light (attempting to add more kinetic energy to the particles to find they just keep gaining more and more mass like Xei entailed).

http://ing.dk/artikel/92168-saadan-v...kelaccelerator

I linked to that video See post #110 just above.

It's a great educational video, with nice visuals.

Oh my mistake bahahaha. I haven't been here for a while, I do appreciate that vid though thanks for the link.

Crap, this thread is old...

As it has probably been stated above, matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but they can be converted back and forth. In nuclear weapons and such, a small amount of matter is converted to pure energy. Scientists at CERN and other facilities are also trying to get matter out of energy...not sure if they've succeeded yet or not.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Crap, this thread is old...

As it has probably been stated above, matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but they can be converted back and forth. In nuclear weapons and such, a small amount of matter is converted to pure energy. Scientists at CERN and other facilities are also trying to get matter out of energy...not sure if they've succeeded yet or not.

Nuclear weapons do not convert matter to pure energy, only a small fraction. You would need antimatter and large amounts at that.