Thread: Trying to figure out REM cycles

I'm about to attempt my first WILD and I'm having trouble figuring out my REM cycle. For this purpose I go to sleep at 10.30, and I know wake up at 2.30 after a dream and then again at 6.30 after a dream. I'm planning on using the 6.30 cycle to attempt it in, but I don't know when it starts exactly. This far in how long would a rem cycle be exactly? Should I be waking up around quarter to 6? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sleep cycle starts with NREM and ends with REM. The average cycle is 90 min long, but can be as long as 110 min.

First one is about 80 min or NREM and 10 min of REM. The longer you sleep, shorter the NREM and longer the REM. Until maybe after 7-8 hrs, when you fall asleep, you go almost straight into REM.

So if you attempt at 6:30, I would say that's a good time. You will go through just a short NREM. Good luck

Hm, alright. I didn't realise that REM would continue almost immediately after that. It doesn't help that I usually have to get out of bed at 6:45, but I can make do. I had an unsuccessful attempt last night, but I won't be discouraged! Thank you!

Set your alarm sooner, lets say 5:45, or 6, do a short WBTB and you can still try.

Or go one cycle sooner.

If you have time for a nap, morning nap the best, or even little later.

gab, so say if i go to sleep at 1 am, and set my alarm for 5:45 am would that work ? ive only had one LD so i want to try a WILD

Originally Posted by ringoyam

gab, so say if i go to sleep at 1 am, and set my alarm for 5:45 am would that work ? ive only had one LD so i want to try a WILD

5:30 - 5:45 But this is not cast in stone. The time can be different, since your cycle can be of different length. Experimentation is the key, or trying after 7-8hrs of sleep, or during nap, if you can afford it.

But as I'm sure you know, timing is not the only factor.

basic WILD
detailed WILD

Originally Posted by gab

5:30 - 5:45 But this is not cast in stone. The time can be different, since your cycle can be of different length. Experimentation is the key, or trying after 7-8hrs of sleep, or during nap, if you can afford it.

But as I'm sure you know, timing is not the only factor.

basic WILD
detailed WILD

ok thank you i appreciate it

How exactly do you do a WBTB if you aren't supposed to use an alarm clock?

Originally Posted by dragonfathom

How exactly do you do a WBTB if you aren't supposed to use an alarm clock?

Though Gab's answer was pretty much perfect, I had a couple more thoughts:

Since WBTB ought to occur after several hours' sleep, there is an excellent chance you'll be waking up naturally between REM cycles anyway. Everybody tends to wake frequently during the night -- especially in the morning -- thougn they rarely remember doing so. So, if you go to sleep as Gab said, by repeating a mantra that aknowledges that you'll be waking up, you might notice that you woke up, and be able to do your WBTB or DEILD.

Also, I do love the glass of water plan, Gab!

Another thought: If you can make a modest investment, they do make alarm clocks that play pleasant sounds to wake you up gently, rather than an annpying buzz. I even bought a "zen alarm clock" that hits actual chimes to wake you up (not a modest investment, though).

You can use an alarm clock. But other methods are preferred.

For a WBTB, alarm clock is ok to use. Best one would be that is not too loud and it doesn't wake you up immediatelly. Maybe a gradual sound, or a vibration, or some soft sound. It shouldn't startle you like most alarm clocks do.

Since for a WBTB, you have to get out of bed anyway, you are allowed to move and hit the switch on the clock.

For DEILD, best alarm is one with auto shut-off.

But, for all purposes, if you manage to wake up on your own, that would be preferred. You can try using a mantra "I wake up after every dream", or "I wake up at 4:30". You can also start noticing the micro-awakenings we all have after every REM.

Another method is to drink water before bed. It will wake you up to use the restroom. If it's too early, drink some water again. Until it wakes you up at the right time. This is not good for DEILDing purposes, but it's great to write down your dreams to DJ and for WBTB.

Okay, so is NREM the non-dream part of sleep? Is it possible to enter NREM through WILD or is the point to get relaxed before REM kicks in? If it's possible, does the lucidity transition to REM?
Had one successful WILD so far and it was kind of accidental, so just want to make sure.

NREM is when we also dream, but these dreams are not the ones we are after. They tend to be short, foggy, and not very good LD material. But I would say yes, it's possible to have a Lucid NREM dream.

The point of WBTB, or a nap, is to eliminate going through the long NREM stage. When you going to sleep, you go through NREM first. But after many hours of sleep, NREM will be very short. So keeping your consiousness until you reach REM will be easier.

^^ Once again, I can only tag-team Gab's excellent response with another thought:

NREM, or Delta sleep, certainly has potential for lucid exploration (ie, delta is the stage sleep yogis target), but you might save it as a future goal for exploration, after you've got plenty of REM LD'ing experience behind you. This is because NREM "dreams" are harder to explore, but also are still an interesting creative space for advanced lucid dreamers.