Thread: Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals -- With Q & A

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ That is an excellent practice, Eamo; in fact, I think one of the LD-related yoga practices (Vipassanā, I believe) uses attention to breath in just that manner. It can be difficult to successfully adapt to your waking-life routines, though, just as it can be difficult to prevent it from becoming another habit that you basically ignore. So give yourself some time to make the practice work for you, and don't worry about lapses.

Good to know! Thx for the advice. Yes this can be quite difficult to do (especially for long periods of time), but, it’s such a well-known truth that to be lucid in dreams you have to be lucid in waking life as well (i.e. not go through each day on auto-pilot or in zombie mode). It can be very challenging to not let your mind wander etc. and it feels very difficult and unnatural, but I’m determined to stick with it in the hope that it will make LD’ing much easier and more accessible, due to the new “heightened” level of self-awareness you would acquire from this, even though it may take some time and effort before it becomes second nature (especially near-constantly).

Originally Posted by Sageous

Again, this breathing exercise is only an aid to keeping your mind in a place that allows you opportunity to develop your self-awareness; you still must do the other things (like RRC's) to actually develop it.

I can see what you mean about having a good opportunity to build self-awareness from something like this, however, I don’t know if I would call myself a complete “beginner” as such to self-awareness. I do feel like I am developing self-awareness in a more general, long-term sense (such as thinking about how I affect others/ the environment etc. which I find myself doing quite a bit), and I think I would see this as a separate endeavor to boosting self-awareness in more direct/ immediate terms for the purposes of LD’ing. The main reason I’ve decided to take the approach I’ve mentioned was to help diminish that “auto-pilot” mentality to make recognizing the dream state easier, with the assumption that I would also unlock the more broader sense of self I may have accumulated. I recall you mentioning once that although someone may have developed a good sense of self in their lifetime, it won’t be terribly helpful to immediate LD’ing goals and work (although a mature sense of SA will help to become lucid), so I was hoping that the approach I’ve listed would help to heighten my self-awareness enough to be able to become lucid easier in the more immediate context, but I would leave the “developing” of SA simply to what I’ve been doing all along. Hopefully this question isn’t too elaborate , but do you think the breathing approach I've mentioned would work fine for the more immediate LD’ing work, like induction, recall etc. and could work in concert with other (perhaps more established) self-awareness practices?

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Eamo24

Hopefully this question isn’t too elaborate , but do you think the breathing approach I've mentioned would work fine for the more immediate LD’ing work, like induction, recall etc. and could work in concert with other (perhaps more established) self-awareness practices?

That was indeed an elaborate question! Here's my not-so-elaborate answer: Yes!

If you develop this practice successfully, including using your breath as a tool for focus rather than the subject of focus, it ought to be very helpful in clearing your mind to better perform your day-work and induction techniques (especially MILD). It also should help as a WILD anchor, as long as you can still manage to fall asleep (sometimes anchors like monitoring breath have a tendency to promote alertness and wakefulness). And sure, you ought to be able to use it while doing your self-awareness practices, perhaps as an aid to keeping your mind clear and on an even keel.

I'm not so sure about recall, as its mechanisms tend to be a bit different, and any activity, even minding your breath, could interfere with the gentle effort of pulling your dreams back from the void after you've woken. However, if one of the LD'ing techniques you're working on is setting an intention at bedtime to remember your dreams, it could work with that (full disclosure: I never had much faith in that myself).

tl;dr: Yes.

Good luck with it!


P.S. Don't worry; the quality of your questions alone has already informed me that you are far from a complete beginner on these things!

Do you think it would be possible to control a dream to the point of making time within the dream slow down so much from reality that one evening could feel like days/months/years?

^^ That's a more-than-off-topic question, I think, but I'll bite at least for a moment.

My basic answer to your question is maybe, but probably not.

We really don't know if time dilation is possible in LD's. What science there is, like LaBerge's brief study of time dilation in his lucid dreaming subjects, seems to indicate that the perception of time works pretty much the same way when LD'ing as it does in waking-life, meaning that your perception of, say, 10 minutes during a LD is the same as it would be during a LD. So, aside from slowing time down a bit if you can get bored in a dream, or speeding it up a bit if you are having an exciting time, science thinks you really cannot stretch your time in LD's to make one night's dreams last for more than, well, one night. Of course, that's what science says...

Many accomplished LD'ers report being able to stretch a night's dream into days, weeks, or even years. I tend to view these reports with a grain of salt, but those making them do seem to believe they did it. What they are probably doing is remembering, after waking, vast stretches of time passing in their dreams because that is what their dream schema gave them (sort of like how a movie plot can span years, and you accept that, even though the film itself lasts only a couple of hours). Still, these dreamers do believe they are dilating time, so there may be something to it.

I have my own decidedly Beyond Dreaming opinion of time, in that it doesn't exist at all, and LD'ing may be a tool that could help us remove the perception of it from our dreams, which would make our dreams literally timeless or eternal (which I suppose could lead later to inventing new perceptions of, time, including dilation). I did a thread on this a while back, and you can check it out here, if you are interested.

So, as far as science goes, the answer is "No," you cannot dilate time in LD's. But as far as many experienced LD'ers are concerned, you can. So in conclusion: Maybe, but probably not.

That is an interesting question, though, and one that has been discussed often here at DV's; you might want to do a search for "time dilation" and see what comes up... I've posted many times on the subject, so you'll probably get more "answers" from me about it as well.

All that said: Since time dilation has nothing to do with the LD'ing fundamentals, this is really not a subject for this thread, so I respectfully ask that you not continue this conversation here (you could always start a new thread)...thank you for understanding.

Thanks, Sageous!

Also, good to know that you can develop certain types of awareness/ mindfulness without it interfering with other (self) awareness practices (although the mind is probably well capable anyway!). I have noticed some success from doing this so far, such as much better recall, as well as moments of low-level lucidity twice in one night. Haven’t done that in a while! I’d be doubtful however, that I could keep this up ALL day (probably just as it would be difficult to maintain a state of meditation all day), but I guess I’ll try to incorporate it at intervals like the RRC, and maybe reach the stage of being “present” (as opposed to zoned out or daydreaming etc.) most of the time eventually. Whatever the case, I’m sure it will stop me from getting back on that endless merry-go-round of LD “techniques”, given how demonstrably helpful it is to simply be “tuned in” more often.

^^ Just keeping you off that "endless merry-go-round" makes the effort worth it, I think.

Good luck!

Hi again, Sageous,

So I’ve been continuing with this SA practice of trying to always stay “connected” to my local reality (i.e. trying to avoid auto-pilot entirely {with the help of an anchor}). It has gotten that little bit easier to do, but there are still some obstacles which make it hard to maintain:

The thing is, it’s reasonably easy to stay mindful and connected to reality in the absence of distractions, but the real difficulty comes about when ending up in the presence of things which have a tendency to erase self-awareness -- things like daydreaming, talking to people, the internet, reading or even getting lost in interesting thoughts (probably the worst of them, btw!). Usually in situations like this, I make an effort to try and split my attention so as not to forget about my sense of self -- but I find that if I focus too much on one of them, I can’t pay proper attention to the other, and vice versa. So what I’ve been doing now is allowing my SA fade to the background, sort of like a distant reminder (although careful not to lose it completely), so that it doesn’t become a complete hindrance to waking life. Do you think this is a good idea, or would you have any other advice on maintaining self-awareness through waking-life activities? It can be quite tricky to coordinate them sometimes! Thanks in advance.

^^ Allowing self-awareness to take a back burner now and then is just fine, Eamo; I would bet that even the Dali Lama sets aside mindfulness for the occasional bit of mindless entertainment. I guess the best advice is to keep your practice as consistent as possible, but don't press it to the point where it becomes a nuisance or something you begin to find excuses not to do more and more often.

That said:

I noticed that talking to people and using the internet were on your list of SA sappers. They are at that. However, I would highly recommend that you try to maintain SA during conversations, because that's one of the times when SA is most valuable: conversations represent our interaction with reality in a truly unique way, and it might be a good idea to do your best to witness that. Also, given that SA is an excellent tool for metering your own behavior, it can be most helpful to be self-aware during a conversation (i.e., you might say fewer stupid/hurtful things, and you might find yourself a much better listener).

The same goes for the internet, I think: even if you are not on a chat site, which would be the same as a conversation, your very use of the internet represents a conversation with the world itself; paying attention might not hurt!

Looks like I finally have a question now. If the definition of lucidity in a dream is self-awareness, and the definition of self-awareness is knowing that you are here and have an effect on everything in your local reality and vice-versa, then what is happening if you begin considering your interaction with everything around you in a dream, but don't realize you're dreaming? I seem to be encountering that a bit lately.

^^ Well, just as you can go through the motions of being self-aware during the day without actually being self-aware, you can easily dream about being self-aware (i.e., doing a RRC during a NLD).

If you are thinking often about being self-aware during the day, or doing lots of exercises like RRC's, you are building a pretty big pile of both day residue and expectation. So, come dream time, your dreaming mind uses that residue and expectation to create a NLD that includes doing a RRC -- and the schema will likely be sound enough that you will certainly feel you're being self-aware in waking-life reality.

This is really something that you might just have to live with, and perhaps see as a step in the right direction. I would suggest doing a RC after each RRC, but then you might simply dream about doing a RC as well! Eventually, though, you should start noticing that you are actually dreaming when you are doing these things in your dreams, because -- thanks to practicing self-awareness during the day -- you will have brought enough self-awareness with you into the dream to at least say, "Hey, wait a minute..."

I hope that made sense; I sort of rattled it off quickly...

Originally Posted by Sageous

This is really something that you might just have to live with, and perhaps see as a step in the right direction. I would suggest doing a RC after each RRC, but then you might simply dream about doing a RC as well!

Ah, I was actually considering something like that. The funny thing is, my original system was to do RCs and RRCs together, but I seem to have managed to forget that while I was experimenting with mixing in other self-awareness/mindfulness strategies in an effort to keep things fresh! (I guess that's sort of like how I'm discovering from my DJ that several of my “new” LD goals are really things I've thought up before over the past few years.)

That makes me realize something else. Recently I was also experimenting with dramatically increasing the number of RCs and RC triggers I use throughout the day and started noticing a disturbing trend toward false “reality” readings of RCs in NLDs, which I've never had a problem with before. I wondered if I was doing something wrong—was I accidentally not doing them mindfully enough (though I tried to make sure I always did)? could I have been doing them too often? or could it have merely been a side-effect of day residue and of no real concern? Since my LD frequency actually appears to be at an all-time high, I guess I can assume it's nothing to worry about.

On the other hand, I wonder if it's also possible that sometimes when I'm doing the self-awareness-like stuff I'm actually right on the edge of lucidity but simply don't have enough time to get there. So far, these seem to have appeared toward the ends of the dreams/REM cycles just before awakening (where I also most frequently become lucid). In at least one of these, I even seemed to begin noticing some inconsistencies with my reality but woke up a second later before I had a chance to ponder it and perhaps arrive at “I wonder if I'm dreaming.”

Originally Posted by Travis E.

Recently I was also experimenting with dramatically increasing the number of RCs and RC triggers I use throughout the day and started noticing a disturbing trend toward false “reality” readings of RCs in NLDs, which I've never had a problem with before. I wondered if I was doing something wrong—was I accidentally not doing them mindfully enough (though I tried to make sure I always did)? could I have been doing them too often? or could it have merely been a side-effect of day residue and of no real concern? Since my LD frequency actually appears to be at an all-time high, I guess I can assume it's nothing to worry about.

Sure, even a high number of sincere RC's could lead to them showing up in NLD's as dreams about doing RC's (with false confirmations, of course, that you are awake). And yes, this would be mostly thanks to day residue, and also the importance you are putting on them consciously, which is more about expectation, but still sort of the same thing. But you are correct: if your LD frequency is way up, then everything is just fine; I wouldn't give the NLD RC's a thought.

On the other hand, I wonder if it's also possible that sometimes when I'm doing the self-awareness-like stuff I'm actually right on the edge of lucidity but simply don't have enough time to get there. So far, these seem to have appeared toward the ends of the dreams/REM cycles just before awakening (where I also most frequently become lucid). In at least one of these, I even seemed to begin noticing some inconsistencies with my reality but woke up a second later before I had a chance to ponder it and perhaps arrive at “I wonder if I'm dreaming.”

This might be another thing you can do nothing about in terms of maintaining lucidity. If you are going to wake up, you are going to wake up, no matter how speedy your Self-awareness checks might be. I suggest that you continue doing them at your own pace, so they work properly at the times when you aren't just about to wake up, and don't try to make adjustments or sacrifices to just to remain lucid for a couple more seconds...better I think to go ahead and wake up, complete a DEILD, and get back to dreaming!

Originally Posted by Sageous

This might be another thing you can do nothing about in terms of maintaining lucidity. If you are going to wake up, you are going to wake up, no matter how speedy your Self-awareness checks might be. I suggest that you continue doing them at your own pace, so they work properly at the times when you aren't just about to wake up, and don't try to make adjustments or sacrifices to just to remain lucid for a couple more seconds...better I think to go ahead and wake up, complete a DEILD, and get back to dreaming!

Sorry, I might have been confusing by not quoting properly and replying to things out of order. I didn't mean to say I was rushing through RRCs, but rather, I was actually responding to the first paragraph in your first reply about it being possible to have a NLD about being self aware without actually doing so. I meant to ask if this could be another possible explanation to what happened in my NLDs.

I have to admit that one thing I'm not entirely clear on is how simply being aware of one's interaction with reality necessarily always means realizing that one is dreaming. For instance, you mention memory as being a crucial component in lucidity. If someone has a dream that is completely lacking in memory (which would have let them know that something strange is going on), wouldn't it still be possible for them to be aware on some level of themselves and their interactions with what they think they're experiencing without quite recognizing their state (for a moment, at least)?

Originally Posted by Travis E.

Sorry, I might have been confusing by not quoting properly and replying to things out of order. I didn't mean to say I was rushing through RRCs, but rather, I was actually responding to the first paragraph in your first reply about it being possible to have a NLD about being self aware without actually doing so. I meant to ask if this could be another possible explanation to what happened in my NLDs.

Hmm... that is a bit of misunderstanding, huh? I still might not be fully on board here because I'm sure I've already addressed this, so forgive me if I'm still not following, but the answer to your question, I think, is a simple "yes."

It is more than possible to non-lucidly dream you are lucid, or are doing RC's and RRC's, and it is surely possible that such imagery is the result of day residue and expectation influencing your dreaming mind. More to the point, though: I have never considered RC's (or RRC's) to be tools for inducing lucidity from a non-lucid state, because it is simply too easy to dream that you are doing these exercises, and for your non-lucid self to assume that their results are correct. The best part is with RRC's: I remember more than once doing non-lucid RRC's and fully accepting it when I "remembered" that I was, say, at my father's house five minutes ago, even tough in reality he's been dead for years. RC's and RRC's really only work properly in dreams when you are already at least a bit lucid, and serve to confirm or amplify your state respectively, but they cannot be counted on to trigger lucidity, for the very reasons we've been discussing.

So: Yes, dreaming that you are doing RC's could be related to your problem -- though you might just as well ignore it, because you're having no trouble getting lucid anyway.

I hope that is what you were looking for; if not, feel free to ask yet once more, and maybe we'll finally connect. Now onto a tougher question:

I have to admit that one thing I'm not entirely clear on is how simply being aware of one's interaction with reality necessarily always means realizing that one is dreaming. For instance, you mention memory as being a crucial component in lucidity. If someone has a dream that is completely lacking in memory (which would have let them know that something strange is going on), wouldn't it still be possible for them to be aware on some level of themselves and their interactions with what they think they're experiencing without quite recognizing their state (for a moment, at least)?

I'm pretty sure I never said that "being aware of one's interaction with reality necessarily always means realizing that one is dreaming," because that is not true. My general definition for self-awareness, as it appears in the first post of this thread, does say something similar:

"Self-awareness is nothing more -- or less -- than being aware that you are here, that you have an effect on everything around you, and everything around you has an effect on you."

But this definition includes a critical bit that you seem to have left out: you. To be self-aware you must know that you are here, which is the same as saying "I am," which is also by far the most important component to my brief definition. Add that component to the interaction with reality you note and then, yes, you will necessarily know you are dreaming, because you will be self-aware, which equals lucid. But just being aware of your interaction with reality is not enough.

The RRC (to which I think you might be referring) is a tool for helping you develop your self-awareness, and was never meant to be a technique for becoming lucid during a NLD. Doing a RRC does not create self-awareness, it only exercises and possibly amplifies existent self-awareness. So doing a RRC if you are not self-aware in a dream (aka: dreaming you are doing a RRC) will not guarantee you will become lucid; it might not even cause you to question the "reality" of your dream at all, because your dreaming mind will certainly give you lots of answers that simply make sense, no matter how absurd they may in truth be. RRC's (and RC's, in my opinion) are tools for daytime work, or for use after you become lucid to better establish your lucidity. That to me is more than enough to make them valuable, I think. I'm sorry if I left the impression somewhere that doing RRC's when not lucid will make you lucid; sometimes I get a bit hyperbolic.

Regarding memory: You can certainly be lucid without access to memory. I believe, for that matter, that most lucid dreams (mine included) are had without any access to memory. Accessing memory is what completes lucidity, bringing your self-awareness to its full waking-life potential, and opening the door to more advanced LD'ing. But even without that access, you can be self-aware enough to realize that you are dreaming and to have an excellent time.

Also: yes, I think dreamers lacking memory can certainly "be aware on some level of themselves and their interactions with what they think they're experiencing without quite recognizing their state." Unfortunately, that would also mean that self-awareness is also lacking, because even the lowest level of lucidity includes recognizing your state (aka, "Hey, this is a dream!").

Finally, I think you might be conflating self-awareness with noting your interaction with reality. Again, a RRC does not equal self-awareness, it only aids it. Acknowledging your interaction with your local reality helps strengthen your self-awareness; it does not define it. You can be self-aware without giving a thought to your local reality, real or not, because you have at least said "I am." I hope that makes sense, because I think if you understand that the RRC does not equal (or trigger) self-awareness, you might have a better time understanding what I have to say.

I'm going back to doing RRCs properly. Also I realized how much I got the fundamentals here confused back when I was asking so much questions here. Like a year ago I think?? It's just the word "fundamentals" made me think of them as deep roots of lucidity, like in a deep subconscious level, like if you were literally explaining neurology (or whatever) to us. Now I know they are less in a context of...uhm...'science class'-ish I guess.....neurology...whatever...., and more of: placing intention/expectations for a successful WILD and to train my self awareness for it is lucidity itself, since in regular dreams, we forget who we are and such (I realized what this really means this past year thanks to my LDs. I realize that the moment of lucidity is the moment i remember who I am and thus that this (whatever character and setting I'm in in the dream) is not....me and my life.......you know what I mean.....). Also using a meaningful mantra, to not just hopefully keep my self awareness present, but to also remind me what I'm doing and my goals (memory)

Lol I took it all in the wrong context before. I'm happy I have a clearer idea of it now though

It's been a while... hello!

Recently, I've been trying to WILD, but I just... can't do it. I already know that my first mistake was trying to do it as soon as I go to bed. I should definitely give it a try after a few hours, which I'll do tonight.

But... are there any tips? I've read so many tutorials that I keep getting confused about what helps and what doesn't help. I'm a very anxious person (yay anxiety disorder), so I tend to overthink this a lot. If anyone could point me to some directions that might get me on the right path... I'd appreciate it A LOT.

Also... do binaural beats work for anyone? I'm willing to give it a shot.

Originally Posted by LucasPotter

It's been a while... hello!

Recently, I've been trying to WILD, but I just... can't do it. I already know that my first mistake was trying to do it as soon as I go to bed. I should definitely give it a try after a few hours, which I'll do tonight.

But... are there any tips? I've read so many tutorials that I keep getting confused about what helps and what doesn't help. I'm a very anxious person (yay anxiety disorder), so I tend to overthink this a lot. If anyone could point me to some directions that might get me on the right path... I'd appreciate it A LOT.

Also... do binaural beats work for anyone? I'm willing to give it a shot.

Yeah, WILD has to occur later during the night, because you need to dive into a REM stage, which doesn't occur at the beginning of sleep. Research the sleep cycle table so you can become more familiar with the sleep cycle if you aren't. Also later REM stages are better than the earlier, since they are longer, and are closer to each other, which makes it easier for you to get a proper chance to hit one during wbtb. My personal best wbtb time is after 5.5-6 hours of sleep.

Also, Sageous's WILD class are excellent for learning WILD properly. Most other WILD tutorials, especially the ones thrown left and right here in forums, are, well, bad. They tell you to "concentrate on HI" or "You can't move a muscle once you start the WILD, even if you feel an urge to roll over for example", or even worse, "Lay down and wait for SP". WILD is in itself simple. You need practice, but that's it. A lot of ppl over complicate it or want, you know, special tips and tricks for succeeding in WILD, thinking "there must be things I am not aware of bcz it WILD can't be simple, it's hard". No, it is simple, it's just difficult to succeed at first, bcz like any other mental skill, you need lots of practice before seeing results.

Here's the class: WILD

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Yeah, WILD has to occur later during the night, because you need to dive into a REM stage, which doesn't occur at the beginning of sleep. Research the sleep cycle table so you can become more familiar with the sleep cycle if you aren't. Also later REM stages are better than the earlier, since they are longer, and are closer to each other, which makes it easier for you to get a proper chance to hit one during wbtb. My personal best wbtb time is after 5.5-6 hours of sleep.

Also, Sageous's WILD class are excellent for learning WILD properly. Most other WILD tutorials, especially the ones thrown left and right here in forums, are, well, bad. They tell you to "concentrate on HI" or "You can't move a muscle once you start the WILD, even if you feel an urge to roll over for example", or even worse, "Lay down and wait for SP". WILD is in itself simple. You need practice, but that's it. A lot of ppl over complicate it or want, you know, special tips and tricks for succeeding in WILD, thinking "there must be things I am not aware of bcz it WILD can't be simple, it's hard". No, it is simple, it's just difficult to succeed at first, bcz like any other mental skill, you need lots of practice before seeing results.

Here's the class: WILD

Thanks!

Funny thing, I've just finished Sageous's first class, actually! I think I'll give it a day before reading the second, though... I don't want to throw a bunch of info at my brain all at once, cause chances are I'll end up ignoring things if I do that. So... one class per day.

But you're spot on, I keep thinking that, since I've never been able to do it, it must be this super hard thing and I'm just missing some tricks. Kinda like a cheat for the new level of a video game.

I'll try to keep it cool, work on Sageous's first homework, and have a go at WBTB tonight.

Hi Sage,

I have a question about the RRC. When I do it I should condense it all into one quick thought. Just want to make sure I understand it.

^^ I don't think you understand it, since the last thing you want to do is condense all three questions into one quick thought.

The whole point of the RRC is to take a moment to really wonder about your presence in the recent past, in the present, in the near future, and to take that moment with each question. Combining them all into a single thought would muddle the exercise, I think, by doing things like: Erasing the memory component (where you were); spreading your consideration of your presence across three sets of time at once, which not only could be confusing, but converts the simple answers a RRC should produce into an abstract (never a good thing); making the RRC a rote exercise, which is never good; and above all you would only be spending one quick thought at a time on building your self-awareness, and that probably will not help.

It's been a while, so I'm not sure what I said to get you thinking this way. Perhaps it was when I mentioned that, with a lot of practice, you will eventually not ask the questions anymore, and go straight to the wondering -- but in that case you are still taking a moment to consider each of the three questions, and not combining them into one quick thought... that quick thought may be efficient, but it will do nothing for self-awareness, and it will not make the RRC useful during the dream. RRC's are not something to be done quickly and efficiently, but slowly and with sincere consideration/wondering.

tl;dr: No. Each question must be considered separately, and done so with a real pause that helps you to stop and wonder about your past/current/and future presence in reality. You will with experience likely not need to ask the questions, but you still must consider all the answers.

Thank you for your response. The reason why I asked if I was supposed to condense it into a quick thought is because of what you said here.

You don’t have to recite all those questions every time; that would be annoying, and the process of reciting all that might diminish the effect. Basically you should put it all into a single quick thought that means something to you, and allows wonder to linger after you’ve resumed moving through your waking day.

Can you better explain this? I want to better understand how to keep the questions from becoming the boring excercise I don't want it to become.

^^ I had an odd feeling that it was something I specifically said ... that first WILD class post happened a long time ago, though, so I didn't recognize it in your first post here.

First, for context, here is that entire paragraph from the first post of WILD Session1:

You don’t have to recite all those questions every time; that would be annoying, and the process of reciting all that might diminish the effect. Basically you should put it all into a single quick thought that means something to you, and allows wonder to linger after you’ve resumed moving through your waking day. It will be difficult at first, but with practice you won’t be using words at all when you pause, as the questions will have become second nature. Be very careful that the questions never lose their wonder, though. If they become rote -- just a bunch of words you say whenever your iPhone app goes off -- then you will have lost the point of doing the exercise because you will not be acknowledging your self.

What I was saying was that you can modify your RRC to better suit you personally, and you can eventually do your RRC without reciting the questions. That "single quick thought" was supposed to be a sort of trigger thought, perhaps a personal question or metaphor that is more meaningful to you than the three RRC questions, but -- and this is the bit I left out, perhaps assuming it was understood -- you still must pause to consider the three states of presence (past, present, future) during your period of wondering after that trigger. And, because the brief trigger is more meaningful and less tedious than the three RRC questions, you might spend more time wondering about those states afterword.

And yes, personally modifying the questions should help keeping your RRC's from becoming rote or boring.

tl;dr: I never meant that the entire RRC ought to be condensed into one quick thought; just the questions themselves; I hope that is clear now.

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"But there was something missing: I wanted to use LD’ing as a tool for transcendence, as a way to move my consciousness toward spiritual and physical experiences that humans are not naturally meant to have." -Sageous

I stepped away from this site because I asked myself that same exact question 2 years ago and I have found through energy mastery that dreams do translate to physical reality. I have been able to perceive and document over 1,500 number synchronicities at my school. (333,222, 555,777) etc etc. Simply by using energy techniques with in the dream. -namaste

Yesterday I had a question that was raised by reading the first 5 pages of this thread. Not wanting to repeat something already discussed, I PM'ed Sageous. He answered and mentioned that repetition is no real issue in a thread this large, so I thought I'd post our conversation here for others to see and hopefully to be helpful or raise new questions

Originally Posted by Sageous

Hi EddieDean:

Yes, this would have been a fine question to ask on the thread; repetition really doesn't matter much on treads that large, I think. But I'll give you a very brief answer here anyway:

I think you might be misunderstanding the point of the fundamentals thread: it is not about induction techniques, but about the tools you must have to make induction techniques work for you consistently.

Self-awareness is not a technique, but a state of mind. It is also not just a state of mind, but it is the state of mind that pretty much equals lucidity, in dreams or waking-life. Self-awareness is simply your awareness of your presence in your local reality. That thinking about your interaction with reality that I suggest you do is not meant to induce lucid dreams, but to help prepare your mind to be ready to be lucid in dreams.

"Regular" awareness is fine, but for regular awareness techniques (like ADA) to work, self-awareness must also be present. Also, regular awareness tends to make your surroundings more important than your presence in them, and that tends to invite non-lucidity.

I really do not have time right now, but I did go into this at length at the beginning of a thread I started long ago called ADA: Right or Wrong for Lucidity?; you might want to check it out, because it pretty clearly states what I see as the difference between self-awareness and natural awareness.

tl;dr: Basically self-awareness is not a limited tool for inducing lucidity, but is, rather, lucidity itself; and that to me makes it very different from regular awareness.

If this answer wasn't enough for you, or only raises more questions, feel free to follow up on the thread.


Best of Dreams,

Sageous

Originally Posted by EddieDean

Hi Sageous,

I'm new to the forums and not new but still inexperienced to lucid dreaming. Via Sensei's "All the best things on DV" I came across your Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals Q&A thread. I've started reading today and I'm now near the end of page 4/20.

A question popped into my head and although I'm sure it will be answered in the thread I really don't feel like rushing through 20 pages to find it. To prevent posting an already answered question in the thread I decided to message you like this, but if you think the question and/or your answer is still valuable for the thread, feel free to put it in there.

Throughout the various explanations of awareness in your posts, one really resonates: self-awareness is very different from awareness of your surroundings, and especially the first is of great value for aspiring lucid dreamers.

I understand the difference between the two (or at least I think I do), but I don't really see why the self-awareness is so much more valuable than environmental awareness. In fact, my intuition is that the latter is much more useful. Being aware of your surroundings makes the detection of any oddities in these surroundings much easier. Keep in mind that when saying surroundings I do not mean to limit it to the physical sense of the word; "surroundings" also includes the feeling of the situation you are in and whether or not this is a logical situation to be in given the context of both the dream world and waking life.

Self-awareness, on the other hand, seems a little 'limited' in its use for lucid dreaming to me. Also, 'thinking about the effects the environment has on me' (and vice versa) doesn't really make sense to me. I understand how it increases awareness of your self, but I really do not see its use in inducing lucid dreams.

I hope that what I said above is clear enough for you to understand my confusion. Also you should know that I am not trying to say you are not right about self-awareness and I'm not trying to offend your theories. I'm sure I'm just confused about what you imply with them and I really hope you can clarify.

Thanks in advance and the best of regards,

EddieDean

I'm sure that by now you're sick of seeing me asking you questions, and i'm pretty aware of the fact that i've done it a lot by now. Still, i'm incredibly frustrated by my progress. If you could take a moment to read all of this, i couldn't be more greatful. Stay with me as i poorly explain my story since day 1 of my practice..

I accidentally ran accross the concept of LDing back in 2011, yeah that's a long time ago.. And to this day, i've never had as much success as my first year of practice. As the years passed, i could only get more pessimistic about my own skills because i could only see them go down and down. Only through the past year have i tried to get an idea of where i've gone wrong, but it still stays unclear. One thing i regret is reading about all the information on the forums. Because of this, i've gotten my practice mixed up with hundreds of different "ways" to LD. I've essentially lost my way with the time i spent reading up about all the techniques and so on. I don't really blame anyone but myself for this though. My view on LDing went from "RC only" to a ridiculously complex understanding that to me, LDing became such a hard thing to do in my mind.

Technique after technique, tutorial after tutorial, i've gotten confused so much i tried quitting this for the second time today.. Only when i tried to quit i realized that LDing became part of me.. Hence what? 5 years of trying to do it? I'm actually surprised by the amount of persistence i hold, i even bugged you out for WILD continuously for 4 months only to realize in the end that i was forcing it on myself.

I knew nothing special. I only RC'd. That's all. No dream journals since i used to remember my dreams in my head, and nothing more than RC's and WBTBs.

Through this very simple approach, i gained 70 LDs in around 1 year, with around 2~3 LDs weekly. I did what i just mentioned for that 1 year, and after that i got burnt out and stopped RC'ing as much, and i eventually stopped it all. Ever since then, i could never get the same success with any other method. I didn't know about anything other than just "RC to lucid dream". As i delved more into how it all worked, i only got more confused from it.

I'm literally listing down what i used to do:
- Nose plug RC all the time
- Occasional unintended WBTBs
- Consistent sleep (School days)
- Consistency in the practice (months ~ 1 year?)

How come that doing stuff so simple, i got success rather easily? No complex "requirements" to LD.. I only "just did it" It's pretty obvious that i could just mimick what i used to do to succeed again, but i'm not even sure if it would work again, which is making me unsure of whether or not i should go through it.

My frustration is probably leaking through this text, but i've really had enough of wasting anymore time without improving. 5 Years is a lot.

Maybe all of this is irrelevant to the thread, but i could only find this thread as the best place to say this. I've recently jumped into the practice of self-awareness, but something feels wrong and i don't know what it is. There is something i'm misunderstanding in here, and i'm asking you for help on figuring that out.

Here's my summary question: What should i do next if i want to succeed like i used to?