Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

WBTB went wrong last night, woke up more later than I should have, never mind that though I still attentped to WILD.

Couldn't stop moving at all, and swallowing was another issue setting me back. But I'm glad I got to experince atleast 2 things, short vibrations and what came to BE the sound of a high pitch/buzzing sound.

Even though I did not WILD I'm happy.

Originally Posted by JoshMcNaught

Even though I did not WILD I'm happy.

That's definitely the right attitude, Josh...good luck with your next dive!

Woke up last night, wbtb was messed up so I went straight into the WILD upon wakening, I can't remember what happened next, must of fell asleep within seconds! This one was my own fault.

Awareness is what I need to be working on the most because while I was trying to wild I noticed my thoughts began to drift and i had to bring my awareness back a few times.

^^ That might not be so much your awareness slipping than your focus slipping; you were, after all, aware that your thoughts were drifting, so some level of awareness was constant.

To maintain focus -- and, yes, to help anchor your self-awareness -- you might try refining your mantra a bit. If you are not using a mantra, you might consider using one.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ That might not be so much your awareness slipping than your focus slipping; you were, after all, aware that your thoughts were drifting, so some level of awareness was constant.

To maintain focus -- and, yes, to help anchor your self-awareness -- you might try refining your mantra a bit. If you are not using a mantra, you might consider using one.

I've been thinking of a Mantra the past couple of days, I have came up with the word "flow". What do you think? Short and simple

^^ That sounds like a fine mantra; good luck with it!

I wanted to post my experience last night. I re-read the mantra section last night and used a mantra which I felt might carry more weight for me currenlty: "I am awake in dreams". Additionally for the "hold still and wait" I went off of intuition and simply focused my attention on the nature of awareness in dreams/what it would feel like to be lucid along with the intention to be lucid. This lead to successfully "appearing" at the beginning of an LD.
My situation is that I usually skip over/don't remember any of the dive. I was wondering if A) my approach to the mantra/intention would be a good way to approach and continue, and B) Is it normal not to remember the dive.
Thanks!

^^ Nice work, Oneirin; thanks for sharing! Now:

A) That seems an excellent mantra; especially because it worked for you. It may be a bit abstract, so it cannot easily relate directly to your particular dream goals for the day, but it is clear, easy to repeat, and, ultimately, must be fairly important to you because it basically underlines the condition of lucidity... also, it makes for a nice "default" mantra, for the days you might not have a particular goal in mind beyond just getting into the dream (my default mantra, BTW, is an equally abstract "Here & Now," and has worked quite nicely for me over the years).

Regarding your focusing attention on "the nature of awareness in dreams/what it would feel like to be lucid along with the intention to be lucid:" At a glance, this activity seems quite abstract and might lead you down a path of over-intellectualization, which could in turn lead you away from sleep because your mind is too active, and (should you fall asleep) away from the dream because you might be installing a notion of what the LD will feel like that contradicts (or in a sense overwrites) what your own dreaming mind was going to present (which could lead to cognitive confusion during the transition -- i.e., you think, "Hey, this isn't what I had in mind, maybe it's not a dream" -- that could cause your self-awareness to weaken in the name of making the dream "right." So I wouldn't recommend it out of hand, especially to novices. However:

At a second glance: If you have an accurate notion of the nature of a LD and about what it will feel like, a notion founded on your own experience and memory, then focusing on it might be just the thing... so I guess the value of this technique rests on you and your experience; and, given that it seemed to have worked, maybe it is right for you.

B) "Normal" is a very lonely term when it comes to LD'ing, I think! Thanks to all the often breathless discussions of the noise on these forums, I believe that the expectation of stuff happening during a WILD dive is far more normal than the stuff itself. There is no reason you cannot move straight from wake to sleep without experiencing any noise; indeed, I find that getting to the dream with minimal fuss to be preferential. I for one have had thousands of successful essentially noise-free WILD's over the years, and haven't felt I missed out on anything. Don't worry about it if you miss out on the noise; instead, feel good about the fact that you can do a WILD without having to deal with the distractions.

One small note, though: You said in your account that you successfully "appeared" at the beginning of your LD; this could mean that you may have lost your self-awareness while falling asleep and actually did a DILD, which occurred almost naturally thanks to your well-set intention. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, because lucid is lucid no matter how you get there, but you could almost call it a successful WILD anyway, because it was actually all the WILD work that got you there in the end. That said, I may have just misread your account, and you never lost self-awareness; if that is the case, then disregard what I just said!

Ty for the in-depth answer! I may experiment with altering the mantra down the road - luckily I was able to remember the goals I had written down in a journal previously. I would imagine that in the future I may need to weave goals into a mantra to keep motivation etc. The concept of having a meaningful mantra definitely helped though, as something 'clicked' for me when was thinking it up.
As far as 'appearing' in the beginning of an LD, I'm still trying to piece together how it occurs in memory for me. I remember years ago, my first 'WILD' began like this as well. While I've had 1 in my life where I've experienced the noise (sounds of helicopter propellers above my head personally) many of my WILD attempts lead in the typical OBE sensation of sliding out of the body - as opposed to raising. I'm going to continue on with with this approach until I possibly hit some barriers related to goal attainment, and make sure to keep track of the process of my transition to determine if it's a true WILD. Like you said though sageous, it's leading to lucid awareness in the end! I should note that for me, the clarity of these LDs is much higher than LDs where I realize I'm dreaming wid-way through the dream plot.

I wasn't particularly attempting to wild but I wanted to practice watching my body go asleep. My body was beginning to go numb and I experienced someone flashing lights and shapes, was this the hypnogogic state?

^^ Sure, that was very likely a bit of hypnogogia...but you might ask yourself this: does it really matter?

There is nothing wrong, certainly, with taking a night or two to explore some of the strange stuff that can be encountered on the way to a lucid dream; it can even be intriguing or a bit telling, from a phenomonological standpoint. But keep in mind that that noise (including the "going numb" part) has nothing whatsoever to do with your lucid dream, once you get to it. HI is simply what your mind and body is doing any time you are falling asleep, but you just happen to be consciously witnessing it during a WILD. Explore it, enjoy it, but try not to let the noise become too important to you, and to your lucid goals.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Sure, that was very likely a bit of hypnogogia...but you might ask yourself this: does it really matter?

There is nothing wrong, certainly, with taking a night or two to explore some of the strange stuff that can be encountered on the way to a lucid dream; it can even be intriguing or a bit telling, from a phenomonological standpoint. But keep in mind that that noise (including the "going numb" part) has nothing whatsoever to do with your lucid dream, once you get to it. HI is simply what your mind and body is doing any time you are falling asleep, but you just happen to be consciously witnessing it during a WILD. Explore it, enjoy it, but try not to let the noise become too important to you, and to your lucid goals.

Hynogigia is the state where your half awake and half asleep, right? I think I'm going to spend more time in this state just to get the feel off it.

When meditating or even attemping to WILD I always seem to swallow, it's annoying, will this set me back a few minutes?

Originally Posted by JoshMcNaught

Hynogigia is the state where your half awake and half asleep, right? I think I'm going to spend more time in this state just to get the feel off it.

Hypnagogic Imagery (HI, or hypnagogia, which is a term I use occasionally that I'm not sure is even a word) is what happens during your time on the fence between wake and sleep; it is not the state itself. I'm not sure about how much time you can spend during those moments you hover between wake and sleep, because sleep (or wakefulness) will eventually win out. I also don't believe that you really need to "get the feel of" that moment -- I think it is better, in terms of WILD, to see the moment (and its HI) as a sign that you're almost to the dream, rather than a moment in which you want to stay, as that would be a distraction -- but that's your call, not mine.

When meditating or even attempting to WILD I always seem to swallow, it's annoying, will this set me back a few minutes?

Sure, finding yourself paying attention to (aka, being annoyed by) swallowing might set you back a bit, because that is certainly a distraction.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest that you try not to be annoyed by simple bodily functions like swallowing; just let yourself swallow as necessary, and ignore the function as best you can when it occurs. There is no rule in WILD against swallowing, BTW (or, say, scratching an itch, or moving an annoying hair from your face, etc); "holding still" means keep your body as still as possible, it does not mean you must keep your body perfectly still, period. Oh, and it's also okay to hop up and get a sip of water (or simply move your head a bit) if swallowing becomes an unavoidable distraction.

I was trying to use the WBTB Method. But when my cat woke me up I used it! I tried my back first but then I turned on my stomach cuz I have spinal issues & it hurts. Took my Meds, smoked a cig, used the bathroom, fed my cat, read about lucid. Then I thought about Venice & I suddenly remembered how much I slept when I was a child. I loved to dream. I had a traumatic childhood & I'd suppressed this. I did my meditation & before long I was having a dream about my childhood friends & then it happened! I was on a staircase in the dream & then my friends were gone & I was outside. It was beautiful! The most vibrant colors I've ever seen even in real life & I was on street that reminded me of Venice. And then I knew it. I knew I was Lucid Dreaming & I consciously opened my eyes. Lots & lots of ppl & color. And can't say enough about the color! I could run really fast & I tried to push past some ppl who weren't happy about that & I knew I shouldn't do that so I flew over them, just like that! Easy peezy. And then I woke up... Talk about a rush! ... And I felt refreshed. Like I did a work out & just feel all kinds of happy! Venice was my goal. And I finally made it. Maybe I'll get to go in real life someday, lol.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Hypnagogic Imagery (HI, or hypnagogia, which is a term I use occasionally that I'm not sure is even a word) is what happens during your time on the fence between wake and sleep; it is not the state itself. I'm not sure about how much time you can spend during those moments you hover between wake and sleep, because sleep (or wakefulness) will eventually win out. I also don't believe that you really need to "get the feel of" that moment -- I think it is better, in terms of WILD, to see the moment (and its HI) as a sign that you're almost to the dream, rather than a moment in which you want to stay, as that would be a distraction -- but that's your call, not mine.



Sure, finding yourself paying attention to (aka, being annoyed by) swallowing might set you back a bit, because that is certainly a distraction.

You didn't ask, but I would suggest that you try not to be annoyed by simple bodily functions like swallowing; just let yourself swallow as necessary, and ignore the function as best you can when it occurs. There is no rule in WILD against swallowing, BTW (or, say, scratching an itch, or moving an annoying hair from your face, etc); "holding still" means keep your body as still as possible, it does not mean you must keep your body perfectly still, period. Oh, and it's also okay to hop up and get a sip of water (or simply move your head a bit) if swallowing becomes an unavoidable distraction.

What I've been doing is a technique that's called "hanging out in the hypnogogic". It's out of a beginner's guide to lucid dreaming by Charley Morley.

The aim off the practice is to stay in the hypnogogic state mindfully without enter sleep beyond it. He presents that is an practice from mindefullness and sleep and not lucid dreaming.

Thanks for the tip, will keep them in mind.

Last night, I continued trying variation of the mantra I've been working with. I decided to try: "Awake in Dreams" as it 'carries weight' and is very specific to the state I am looking for, and is based in the present. I woke up after ~6hrs of sleep due (I'd estimate) due to mantras/intentions set before sleep. I ended up lucid mid-way through a dream sequence, yet at the onset of a particular dream scene. I automatically knew I was aware in a dream and did not need to perform a RC.
This was a different feeling than the LD I had a few days ago in which I felt it was directly after the WILD attempt, needed no RC, and took place in a very familiar setting. Additionally, the level of lucidity in the previous dream was much higher (closer to waking consciousness, which is what I'm going for).
Looks like I triggered a DILD, so I may consider changing mantras. Feel free to share thoughts/suggestions!

^^ You might consider doing a RC when you become lucid, even when you are sure of your presence in the dream; the act of doing the RC and seeing its results might help elevate your level of lucidity a bit. For that matter, you might even do a RRC (from session 1 of the WILD class). Sure, WILDs can begin with more self-awareness (lucidity) present than DILDs, but there is no reason that during a DILD you can't, with a little effort, equal that self-awareness that "comes" with a WILD.

DILD or WILD simply reflects how you got to the LD, and by no means define the final quality of your dream. How you manage your lucidity once there is up to you, and not to the nature of the original transition. So be happy when you trigger a DILD, and work with it as if it were the positive result of your WILD effort that it was. Changing your process to avoid triggering a DILD might not be the best answer; you might think instead about accepting the DILD as a consolation prize from a failed WILD, and with that acceptance know that you can be just as lucid in a LD resulting from a DILD as from one that started with WILD (because you can).

Originally Posted by Sageous

Sure, WILDs can begin with more self-awareness (lucidity) present than DILDs, but there is no reason that during a DILD you can't, with a little effort, equal that self-awareness that "comes" with a WILD.

So be happy when you trigger a DILD, and work with it as if it were the positive result of your WILD effort that it was.
Changing your process to avoid triggering a DILD might not be the best answer; you might think instead about accepting the DILD as a consolation prize from a failed WILD, and with that acceptance know that you can be just as lucid in a LD resulting from a DILD as from one that started with WILD (because you can).

Great point, and very encouraging. I'm going to continue as is, and put a lot of energy into developing focus in the dream state regardless of how it's triggered. In the past I used to demand clarity from the dream. This time, I demand of myself to increase focus and increase lucidity- as I am practicing the Dream Yoga techniques. Additionally, I performed the hand rubbing technique in this dream, especialy once the "white out" effect began to set in. I'm just going to aim for lucidity no matter how it comes.

No go on last night's WILD, but I wanted to post as I began incorporating some visualization/incubation techniques. I wanted to see if visualization/incubation would work for me as I enjoy imagination/visualization and find the idea of having a dream "on tap" really useful & supportive to the dreamscape.
I continued with the mantra I've been using: "Awake in Dreams" before bed as well as during post dream awakenings (triggered by mantra).
During awakening, I focused on the mantra and visualized the incubation. It seems I lost awareness without entering the incubated scene; I did not remember being lucid or any images from the incubation during the REM cycle. I awoke a bit later remembering fragments of unrelated dream content.

Anyway, any insight would be helpful to see if on the right track, or even the right path with mantra/incubation combinations! I'll prob continue trying this approach a bit longer to see if I'm having any success. Ty.

^^ That sounds like a fine plan, Oneirin, but don't forget you still need to do a WILD!

Seriously, dream incubation is a good thing, and visualization can help during the moments right before you fall asleep, but these things also can inadvertently push your attention away from your overall WILD goal of maintaining self-awareness while you're falling asleep. So you might incubate a dream, but you might sacrifice lucidity in the process. Be careful to keep a balance when adding new items to your WILD dive.

I could definitely see your point in regard to losing focus - too many items in awareness and not enough single pointed concentration. I'll just focus on the incubation during the day and keep a steady focus practice tonight during WBTB.

WILD attempt last night - had multiple awakenings during the night (checking the time with a clock now which I'll continue to hone in on 'timing')
No LD, but I narrowed my focus going into the WILD on just visualizations. I used the red lotus as I was reading a Tibetan Dream Yoga book before bed and figured I'd try it out. I remember that this technique has not worked for me in the past after reading LaBerge's book, however (considering dropping visualization for a while).
I noticed my mantras for waking up after dreams are working really well; I'm waking up consistently after every dream period. However, it seems after ~5 hrs of sleep I did not enter directly into REM as I remember (I may need 5.5 to 6)
I am going to transition back to focus on mantras tonight, and actively anticipating the dream entry for WILD.

Long post, but I had a long waking period during my WILD attempt last night. No LD, but I learned from the attempt. I woke up after 3 dream segments last night (12:40, ~3:15, ~4:20) and attempted a WILD at 4:20 figuring it would be the best time (I may consider trying earlier periods now). 4:20 was just about 6 hours 20 mins after falling asleep. It was my first try at having a a small stimulant during WBTB (.33oz dark chocolate: containing 6mg caffeine and some theobromine).The insomnia may have been due to the fact that I was going into my 1st day back at work after spring break however. I'm gonna ditch the WBTB stims now. I ended /w some insomnia, staying mostly awake until my alarm at 6:55 although I hit some periods of semi-consciousness throughout. I definitely learned 'HOLD STILL' from this one. I did notice a loud 'ding' at one point which I assume was 'the noise', which I'll ignore.
I attempted several WILD techniques during this period, just hoping that I'd fall asleep! I'll cover a few of my experiences since I could probably learn a lot more.
My attempt at mantra & gazing into eyelids anticipating dream was followed by insomnia. I moved on to 61 pt relaxation which has worked well for me in the past. It really helped relax and get the 'sinking' feeling. Focusing on seses, progressing through SSILD lead to losing some consciousness (maybe it would be a good technique to pursue?) Keeping a clear mind and waiting for visuals produced some vivid hypnogogia at one point, yet no dream Emerson.
I'll take any pointers/insight regarding the experience! Thanks.