The Dream Cartography Thread

[Queen Zukin]

I'm looking for volunteers who would like to participate in a long-term venture into dream cartography. I've been reading a lot about the Russian DreamHackers and dream cartography. Dream cartography is the mapping of your dreams. It's similar to having a dream journal, but instead of writing the plot down, you are mapping the location. Overtime, you'll find that locations will coincide and that you'll have some major "breakthrough." Taken from some translations: "And last but not least: we nearly went crazy when we found out that our maps had common basic details. Some special places are present on nearly every map. For example, K. writes about a huge building, which has a link with a stadium. And I have this formation too. And, as I know where this place is situated, I can give K. some useful advice and in this way I can help her create a map. And, in the case of telling K. about the nearest landmarks, she may have had a very interesting insight-she came to know that she had already visited those landmarks thousands of times, and consequently she was caught up by a wonderful and inexpressible feeling of dream recollection." ... "Then "hackers" found out that if they got their practice right (by searching for necessary places and avoiding unnecessary places) a Dreamer becomes involved in a shocking process. Each new recollection and description of a dream will rope you into a chain of very old recollections (ten or twenty years old)! Hundreds of places, where you have been hundreds of times will be revealed in a bright flash! In such moments a man lives through a very powerful state. ["It is like a 'weekly Satori' "] You will not feel euphoria, but rather a strange thirst-faster! More! The everyday "reality" of your family, friends, your job, the "real" world will leave you. You are neither here nor there-on a strange borderline. Dreams become very transparent. You remember yourself in a Dream every night. Achievements turn out to be heady. The words of Castaneda and don Juan gain a new meaning. You see something in them that you didn't manage to catch before. BAH! Subsequent collapse into an insufferable depression-you want to commit suicide. And yet again you have to gather up your strength bit-by-bit and continue your practice until new ups-and-downs come, breaking certain membranes in yourself. And later you take your map, knead it like a piece of dough, and use it purposefully. Then you don't need it any more. By this time, as a rule, there is no "fog of war" on it. Some time later you turn your attention to those strange "blind spots" on the "border range" of the Tonal. But, as the saying goes, that's another story." A few years ago, I did some dream cartography of my own. I took a big sheet of paper and began the process. Overtime, I condensed it into something smaller. The end product was this: I did, in fact, have some strange breakthroughs while making this map. I found that some places did link up to each other, and by mapping I was able to remember dreams that I had had years ago. Unfortunately, my motivation ran dry. It's been years since I worked on that thing and the bigger version is lost somewhere. I think it wouldn't really make much sense to add onto something so old and remote feeling, so I've started a new map. I've used a large sheet of poster board as my canvas, except this time I am using stickie notes so I am able to move things around in the process. I'd like to use this thread to motivate others to try dream cartography. There isn't a lot of information available, and what is available is usually in Russian. From what I've read, dream cartography could be helpful to lucid dreaming, but it also has a "supernatural" potential. I would like to investigate these claims by creating a thread where other members can develop and share their dream maps. If you're new to this, here's an awesome dream cartography tutorial. My new dream map looks lame and sad right now, so I'll post an updated picture of it in about a week's time. Participants: Queen Zukin KestrelKat DawnEye11

[KestrelKat]

Let's doooooo this!

[OpheliaBlue]

This sounds so cool, and I've heard of it before. But how would one map weird changey things? For example: alot of my lucids start out in my bedroom, or some version of my bedroom. Do I count that as the same place? I feel like all my dreamscapes are completely disconnected and random. And because they change so much, even within the dream, how in the heck would I map it out? I'm not being anti-dream-cartographical (lol), I'm just curious how to do it given my personal weird-ass parameters. By the way, your map is bad ass. Looks like something out of Lord of the Rings.

[Queen Zukin]

Yeah! I'm pretty sure that you count your bedroom as your home. For example, my home is represented by a house and is in the middle of my new map. I have a few "homes" in real life that I am conglomerating into one. I'm not sure how this will affect my map, but hey, that's the point of the experiment. When I was making the old map, the weird changey things were sometimes really good clues as to how things linked up, though sometimes, they were also just nonsense.

[DawnEye11]

I'm going to try making one. Yours looks great

[OpheliaBlue]

I know that a lot of times I'll leave my house when I get lucid, and there's a lake nearby always in the same place. There's a lake by us irl, but in my dream it's not in the same place as real life. But they're always in pretty much the same place from dream to dream, if that makes sense haha. I have a couple other repeat places too. Are you sketching in non lucid environments as well?

[Queen Zukin]

I think it's convention that you only sketch the non lucid dreams.

[KestrelKat]

What if you sketch the portions of a lucid dream before you got lucid? So just the parts where you weren't lucid.

[Queen Zukin]

That would be fine, because you're essentially sketching the non-lucid part.

[LolaTheLoner]

I used to read into great depth about the Russian DreamHackers. They've always fascinated me. (Most likely because it takes so much extra work deciphering those translations. It makes it seem like I'm in an action movie or something. ) I never actually made a good map of my own though, despite several attempts. If I condense it like yours instead of trying to make a to-scale map, I'll probably have a bit more luck. I think I'll give this a go once more! (Though mine will likely not be as pretty as yours. I lack artistic talent on all but rare occasions.)

[Hilary]

I'm going to work on this, and I'll try to keep up with it as long as I DJ. This is going to be fascinating, I can just tell!

[Queen Zukin]

I'll probably be posting my first updated dream map on Thursday or Friday. The combination of humidity and fans in my room has ruined my sticky note idea, so I am going to have to write things down instead. I used to read into great depth about the Russian DreamHackers. They've always fascinated me. (Most likely because it takes so much extra work deciphering those translations. It makes it seem like I'm in an action movie or something. ) I never actually made a good map of my own though, despite several attempts. If I condense it like yours instead of trying to make a to-scale map, I'll probably have a bit more luck. I think I'll give this a go once more! (Though mine will likely not be as pretty as yours. I lack artistic talent on all but rare occasions.) What did you read? I don't know Russian but I've been reading the translated version of "Dream Searchers," which is what inspired me to do this. It's sort of an account of the Dream Hackers, I don't know why they changed it to "searchers." On that note, I found some interesting information from that book that could be useful to this project. "When falling asleep, a person doesn't simply get into a dream, but he finds himself in a sphere of perception. The sphere of perception is a little pierce of virtual dream space. It's a peculiar little sphere, inside of which a certain dream scenario is played for us. In an ordinary dream, man is not aware of the limits of this space, so he takes it all in good faith. Searchers managed to find out about the illusory nature of these worlds. To see it for yourself, it's enough to, in any of your dreams, walk straight ahead for some time without turning aside. During the process, every now and then, attempts will be made to distract the lucid dreamer from the set goal- all kinds of obstacles will appear on his way. But if he will remain determined, he will actually reach the end of the dream sphere of perception. He'll be literally pressing against a barrier of some kind, a curtain of the world or sorts - the border of the dream bubble." Has anyone tried this? I did this once in a lucid dream - I just decided to walk straight forward and see where I would go. I eventually ran into a lake and got lost in a really spooky forest. "Transfers between the spheres of perception are determined by a complex web of transits - dream portals of sorts. If one were to pay attention to transfer moments, when moving from one dream into another, one would notice that almost every time it has something to do with an element of a dream sphere. Practically any object could be an element; it simply draws the dreamer over into another sphere of perception. The knowledge about the system of transits allows you to enter any sphere of perception. And that's where mapping emerged. While compiling the map of dream landscapes, searchers introduced an element of order to the dream world, creating certain reference points. The spheres of perception, previously uncoordinated, gradually started merging - this happened when some pierces of landscape on the dream map were put together. The most interesting part was that, in some strange way, the elements of all kinds of cities could be combined together, and some street in Moscow could, for example, lead to another street in Kiev. Basically, the dream map joined together the elements of all cities in which the dreaming person had been before. ... Hundreds upon hundreds of previously scattered/separated spheres of perception were brought together into one strange, but quite coherent picture." "On the assumption that the dream world mirrors the real world, searchers introduced a few changes to the coordinate system. And if west and east were in place, north and south had swapped places. As it turned out, searchers were not the first ones to apply this system of orientation - that had already been done by Taoists and Northern shamans before them." "A very special place on the dream map was allocated to the, so called, bordering limits. These were usually seas, deserts, mountains and forests. Getting beyond the bordering limits was considered to be either impossible, or very difficult." "Somewhere in the middle of a dreamer's map was his home. The peculiarity of this place was that it was in the transmutation zone and, unlike other areas of the dream map, it was constantly changing. If the dreamer often changed his place of living, then that became even more apparent every time his home acquired new features." "In the first stage, a person would start recognizing familiar places in his dream and at some point he'd realize that he was sleeping, and so his dream turned into a lucid dream. With time, changes would take place in the dream memory as well; the dreamer started remembered his old dreams more and more often. At first these were isolated dreams then their stream increased dramatically, turning into a real avalanche. Basically, you'd eventually remember all the dreams you've ever had, at that point you could draw a very detailed version of your dream map. This process was the main point of mapping. Searchers believed that only once an explosion of dream memory had taken place, you'd start having real lucid dreams." There's also some stuff in the book about regaining lost energy through your dream map, and where you would find these things at but that doesn't seem relevant yet.

[LolaTheLoner]

What did you read? I don't know Russian but I've been reading the translated version of "Dream Searchers," which is what inspired me to do this. It's sort of an account of the Dream Hackers, I don't know why they changed it to "searchers." On that note, I found some interesting information from that book that could be useful to this project. I had no idea of that book's existence, but now I'm just dying to read it! I used to read through the old Dream Hacker's forums. It was mostly in Russian, which I can't read either, but they had an "English" section. It seemed as though they used an online translator for parts of it rather than knowing any English themselves. Unfortunately their original forums have been shut down since I last visited. Its a shame, because I had a lot of the best parts bookmarked and now my links just lead to 404s. Has anyone tried this? I did this once in a lucid dream - I just decided to walk straight forward and see where I would go. I eventually ran into a lake and got lost in a really spooky forest. I did try this before, specifically related to a similar train of thought from those old forums. It was said that by walking North or South, one would eventually reach an impassable obstacle that marked the edge of your dream map. The same could be said of East and West, though it could be somehow possible to extend those. It was similar to your quote from the book here: "A very special place on the dream map was allocated to the, so called, bordering limits. These were usually seas, deserts, mountains and forests. Getting beyond the bordering limits was considered to be either impossible, or very difficult." In my dream I walked in the direction I consider North (as it is at the top of my map; it's actually South in real life.) I walked/flew on and on, over countryside and houses until I indeed reached a large collection of mountains. I did not believe that a dream could possibly have any limit, so I climbed over the mountains just to prove this theory wrong. On the other side was a valley in which a quaint little city was nestled away. Followed by more imposing mountains. I became distracted by the city and walked around there for a bit before the dream ended. And if west and east were in place, north and south had swapped places. I read this just after I typed the above about my north and south being swapped. Very interesting!

[DawnEye11]

This is a basic outline of my dream map. Its not very detailed with other places because they are usually within certain places.^^ I think it looks good for a beginner. I tried anyways. xD Did this on adobe flash. Oh and the picture is small cause i don't know how to make it bigger on this site. :/ ff.jpg

[KestrelKat]

I had no idea of that book's existence, but now I'm just dying to read it! I used to read through the old Dream Hacker's forums. It was mostly in Russian, which I can't read either, but they had an "English" section. It seemed as though they used an online translator for parts of it rather than knowing any English themselves. Unfortunately their original forums have been shut down since I last visited. Its a shame, because I had a lot of the best parts bookmarked and now my links just lead to 404s. I hope this helps: The Internet Archive If you have any of the URLs to the forum topics themselves, they should be in the archive. It's worth a try, at least Just paste in the URL into the WayBack Machine in the middle of the first row of boxes, and browse through the years. This is a basic outline of my dream map. Its not very detailed with other places because they are usually within certain places.^^ I think it looks good for a beginner. I tried anyways. xD Did this on adobe flash. Oh and the picture is small cause i don't know how to make it bigger on this site. :/ ff.jpg That looks really cool! Did you draw that all yourself?!

[Queen Zukin]

This is a basic outline of my dream map. Its not very detailed with other places because they are usually within certain places.^^ I think it looks good for a beginner. I tried anyways. xD Did this on adobe flash. Oh and the picture is small cause i don't know how to make it bigger on this site. :/ ff.jpg That really is so cute!

[DawnEye11]

Thanks! ^ w ^ Thanks! Yeah I did. > w <

[Sensei]

This is interesting I shall start doing this. . When I see some connections ill post the results here. Sounds like it could be a way to get more general dream awareness and in turn, more lucid (not gonna lie... Pretty much all I care about )

[ThreeCat]

I am tentatively going to give this a shot as well. What is the technique? Do you sketch what you remember when you wake up? Do you do this after you DJ? I have several locations repeat over and over again. Is the idea to realize that your dreams are actually a closed universe with a finite number of locations that can be visited? All of the "up and down" roller coaster stuff doesn't sound very appealing to me, but I would like to know "where" I was in my dreams

[Queen Zukin]

I am tentatively going to give this a shot as well. What is the technique? Do you sketch what you remember when you wake up? Do you do this after you DJ? I have several locations repeat over and over again. Is the idea to realize that your dreams are actually a closed universe with a finite number of locations that can be visited? All of the "up and down" roller coaster stuff doesn't sound very appealing to me, but I would like to know "where" I was in my dreams Yes, there is also a good tutorial link in my first post. Also, could a mod either update or delete the participants section in the original post? I forgot that I couldn't update it after a certain period of time. Here is week one's dream map! It's kind of hard to see, and pretty empty still yet. Since I had to get rid of the stickie notes, I might have to erase and move things around when I get more dreams on there.

[ThreeCat]

It would be cool to get a really big whiteboard, and hang it up in your dream room. We all have one of those, right? Queen Zukin, how do you determine space between locations? Is it just an aesthetic thing, or do you feel that some locations are farther away than others?

[Queen Zukin]

It would be cool to get a really big whiteboard, and hang it up in your dream room. We all have one of those, right? Queen Zukin, how do you determine space between locations? Is it just an aesthetic thing, or do you feel that some locations are farther away than others? For now it just goes upon instinct. I'm also giving adequate space between things so that I can fill it in later if I dream that there is something between those two locations.

[Hilary]

It would be cool to get a really big whiteboard, and hang it up in your dream room. We all have one of those, right? :cheeky Hahah, I just bought one, for this exact purpose. I plan on using post it notes (thanks to the poster who suggested that) of dream locations and transits, and move them around as I learn more/re-experience them. I'll use the whiteboard to tentatively map, and then when I've got more concrete ideas, I'll transfer to a poster board. Going to go through all of my old dream journals over the next few days - excited!

[KestrelKat]

I'll post my map so far tomorrow after my classes I feel like I actually have a pretty good idea of a small chunk of mine. Distances aren't exactly set yet, but I feel that they're all rather close (like the one dream where I took a bus from a small coastal town to the museum in a big city) The one thing I'm positive of is that my Big City is surrounded by mountains on one side, at least. I keep seeing it in semi-areal views from foothills or mountains. I don't know where Austria goes yet, though. lol

[KestrelKat]

Zukin, do you want to use my *first* post as the participants list? I can still edit it