Thread: (N)REM barriers - the reason of not achieving lucidity

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Love those graphs! I was going to ask have you experimented with different lengths of wbtb and measured if they have an impact on the length of the barrier? In my experience they do.

Great question! I found that the length is not so important as a level of wakefulness. For example if I stay awake in the bed for ''long time'' and feeling groggy, I'm going to fall to NREM barrier quickly after asleep. On the other hand if I do some stretching and body excercise or little jogging, the NREM barrier is weak or not at all.

Another interesting stuff I've found from analyzing my dream journal is that when I was emotionally disturbed during wbtb (for example pissed off from hassle with somebody) it always led to lucid dream. Maybe emotional disturbance make you more alert and wake, maybe... I also advice myself to go out if possible during WBTB and talk to people, for example in shop or whatever because it wakes you up.

Next thing is caffeine or sulbutiamine or anything that makes you more alert, but there is hard to find balanced dosage to fall asleep again.

Originally Posted by Nfri

Great question! I found that the length is not so important as a level of wakefulness. For example if I stay awake in the bed for ''long time'' and feeling groggy, I'm going to fall to NREM barrier quickly after asleep. On the other hand if I do some stretching and body excercise or little jogging, the NREM barrier is weak or not at all.

Another interesting stuff I've found from analyzing my dream journal is that when I was emotionally disturbed during wbtb (for example pissed off from hassle with somebody) it always led to lucid dream. Maybe emotional disturbance make you more alert and wake, maybe... I also advice myself to go out if possible during WBTB and talk to people, for example in shop or whatever because it wakes you up.

That's a good point. Staying longer usually contributes to more wakefulness, but just lying in bed feeling groggy won't be as effective and might lead to falling back into NREM. I understand what you mean about those disturbing emotions, for me it's sometimes nagging thoughts about daytime activities that have a similar effect. Wish there were more pleasant ways to increase wakefulness and trigger lucidity.

Next thing is caffeine or sulbutiamine or anything that makes you more alert, but there is hard to find balanced dosage to fall asleep again.

Yes, caffeine could help achieve that wakeful state faster and pushes up the sleep stage to lighter sleep. The dosages will vary for every person and perhaps need to also vary according to one's sleepiness. I try to stay within the 20-60 mg band to avoid becoming hopelessly alert.

Looking forward to your future experiments with this!