Thread: "Totems" and Intent?

Back in the day, after watching Inception, I did take a domino tile as a totem. Obviously, we don't have the same use for totems as in Inception and I did not keep up with it. In fact, the domino never appeared in my dreams while I was actively carrying it to remind myself of lucid dreaming. Yet, I kept it as a decoration and symbol of dreaming on my desk in my parents' house. And many years after all that, and a couple months back from now, while I had a lucid dream but could not recall anything, trying to remember, the first thing from the waking world that I recalled was this long lost totem. It was a triumphant moment, and it was interesting that I remembered it, but otherwise, I don't find it useful... Much like you said, carrying it in my pocket would be too banal. Maybe a piece of jewelry would be more appropriate and yet, I made contact with it when I had otherwise forgotten about it in waking life.

I do hold hope, like you, that I could eventually create such a strong connection with some objects and places as to nurture awareness and bring them in dreams, but I'm not there yet.

The switch idea is fun. But I don't think it would immediately work for me either, but you, know, there's discipline too. That's a thing. And I don't think the switch even needs to be material. You can carry it with you anywhere in your mind's eye. Always turning it on and not worrying about turning it off if you feel like it.

I know I'm rarely going to dream about a totem, but my hope would be that I can more easily summon totems in my dreams to use as tools after I gained lucidity.

Really cool idea, Darkness. Totems in general are a great tool imo, and I've never heard of using a lightswitch before (not plugged in), it sounds unique and definitely inspiring.

I think totems are great not because we're likely to encounter them in our dreams, or even remember to use them in our dreams (although that can happen). I think they are great because they force us to frequently question our reality. In addition, they are highly motivating if they are personal, like a green light switch.

I feel like my totem is the MotivAider. Maybe it doesn't seem like a totem, but I think it is in its own way. It buzzes me every 20 minutes, and I keep it on most days. I've never seen it in my dreams, but I do question my reality and become lucid more often since I've started wearing it. I combine it with counting my fingers. However, if something weird happens, I don't check it like you would a normal totem. I just go to my fingers again.

I think with your light switch, Dark, I might combine that with a second reality check, just to be safe. I could see how it might seem normal in a dream because light switches in dreams usually don't work. Maybe the words might be different or misplaced, and that could work.

I think it would be really cool to post pictures of our totems, especially if they are unique. A little battery-operated light that you could carry in your pocket would be a cool totem too, I think.

Any other ideas for cool totems?

Sorry if my reply is a bit jumbled, not feeling so well today for some reason, comes and goes.

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Actually it's more the type of switch used in project boxes or industrial products, here's a picture though.

switch-crop.jpg

I have always heard/read about people having issues with switches/electronics in dreams but it's never really been something I've noticed myself, maybe it's just an expectation thing, like the thing with saying one's own name?

And as you suggest, my intent isn't so much to carry it with me into the dreams, it's more to set a state of awareness through a physical act before I go sleep. Originally I had indeed thought of wiring it in a way that would light up an LED or neon with a battery when switched to "HI" and I thought of making a small cylindrical wooden case for it but I concluded that would be a lot of effort for something that I might end up considering a novelty... Besides, I could see myself making it way too bulky/cumbersome to actually bother having around with me.

Regardless, if they did appear in dreams, that would be cool too, but I feel that for me it's an unlikely scenario since my phone rarely ever features in dreams and it's something I'm generally well aware of.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

I think totems are great not because we're likely to encounter them in our dreams, or even remember to use them in our dreams (although that can happen). I think they are great because they force us to frequently question our reality. In addition, they are highly motivating if they are personal, like a green light switch.

I feel like my totem is the MotivAider. Maybe it doesn't seem like a totem, but I think it is in its own way. It buzzes me every 20 minutes, and I keep it on most days. I've never seen it in my dreams, but I do question my reality and become lucid more often since I've started wearing it. I combine it with counting my fingers. However, if something weird happens, I don't check it like you would a normal totem. I just go to my fingers again.

What you said made a lot of sense to me, especially how you described your experience with the MotivAider. That's basically all I would hope to really get from this.

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Originally Posted by Occipitalred

do hold hope, like you, that I could eventually create such a strong connection with some objects and places as to nurture awareness and bring them in dreams, but I'm not there yet.

The switch idea is fun. But I don't think it would immediately work for me either, but you, know, there's discipline too. That's a thing. And I don't think the switch even needs to be material. You can carry it with you anywhere in your mind's eye. Always turning it on and not worrying about turning it off if you feel like it.

The feeling of connection is definitely what I'd like to cultivate and you're right about discipline; I think lacking discipline tends to indicate (for me) that there are other things in my life that are taking more weight or more of my attention.

Though, I think what you said about carrying it in the mind's eye is something I should really think about; this could be interesting when combined with simulated or "ghost" physical sensation.

Starting to feel unwell again, maybe I'll come back to this later today if I can.

What an awesome looking totem, Dark. It brought some ideas to me about finding a cool totem for myself (the more traditional type, not just the MotivAider).

Some ideas (if you don't mind me posting them):

Mini flashlights that go on keychains, you can check the light to see if you're dreaming (not 100% foolproof).

Even better, I thought, check this out:

I like this one because it requires a double push on the button to turn it on. So, if in a dream, and you press the button and the light actually does work, you know you're dreaming. If it doesn't work after two presses, you also know you're dreaming. What do you think?

Flashlight necklace (amazon link)

I saw that movie but do not recall much about it. Do any of you have a dream altar? Small sacred space set aside to remind you of lucid dreaming every time you see it. It could have a vision board like Moonage showed us or symbols of things you want to improve through dreaming. With me it has been little side table with totems and a few objects. An example may be a favorite feather that will remind me that I can fly. I also like those petrified seashell, they make me think of the many layers of all things. The layers of consciousness. You could carry one with you for a day if you want. Mostly they sit arranged pleasingly on the alter. You make a habit of sitting in front of the alter and repeat mantras or expressing dream goal. A great addition is a ritual at the end. An example: three small crystal balls in cup shaped holders and a bell in the middle. Get settled and ready to move to the bed. Move each sphere to the cup on its left saying some aforemention each time. Ring the bell. Make this scared. The bell marks you effort and thoughts moving out into the universe like waves.
I do not know if that adds to the conversation or if I am misunderstanding.

Sivason. In Inception, the totem is an object with a particular characteristic only you know. You can inspect it in dreams, not to determine that you are dreaming, but that you are in YOUR dream. Another dream architect would not know your totem's secret characteristic and so that secret characteristic would be absent. Outside of Inception, there is no use for this... Even under the paradigm of astral projection where there are external elements in your dream, you could still summon your intact totem, I'm sure. But if you couldn't, than a totem could be used to check that you are in the astral. But then, unlike Inception, your totem can still fail in a normal dream so...

I definitely should make a physical dream altar. That's a good idea. The top of my wardrobe already looks sort of altar like with my tarot cards and candles but I need a more cozy furniture. As of now, most of my sacred objects, places, and rituals are all in my mind where I can access them most easily.

Moonagedaydream. That necklace is a cool idea! In the end, there is no foolproof way of fooling the dream. As long as we associate increased awareness with the object, it's a good thing.

DarkestDarkness. Nice switch. It's definitely iconic. Unique enough to make an impression. I mean, now that you have this switch, if you forget it at home, lets say and you're in the bus, as easy as it is to remember it, you can hold it and switch it. And if it's a ritual, also, increase awareness at the same time because that's the important part

That's a pretty interesting one MoonageDaydream, I like your idea around it.

And sivason, you got it I think, don't think you misunderstood anything; I don't particularly remember the film very well either if I'm honest. What you do with your altar is basically what I'm interested in, the ritual and symbolic aspects especially. I think I have never committed to creating such a type of thing/space because I simply don't know how to make room for such an idea of my own.

There's only one place in the house where I have an otherwise spiritual item and it's not exactly out of the way, which means there's often clutter and so I don't even make use of the space for spiritual things as often as I'd like. My mother always had this study at home where she did both her at-home teacher work and where she had spiritual things and meditated and so on. The only room I'd like and (would be able to) use for a similar purpose happens to be a front room, which feels too exposed for something personal and too often it becomes a dumping grounds room, so again, clutter...

Occipitalred, for the most part I avoid creating mental spaces like so, I guess I must generally try too hard or something because usually visuals are poor and many details end up mutating on their own, making me lose interest. But given my issues with availability of physical space especially of late, perhaps it's something I could try doing more of. In any case, yes increased awareness is definitely the goal and I have already started doing some mental exercises around my switch based on what you said, and I have already found this to be helpful, so thank you.

I have tried employing totems, although I took a more different approach than you, DarkestDarkness. I actually wanted to incubate said object into the dream space in order to recognize the thing and let it switch ON lucidity. While it may not be exactly what you're looking for, I'm going to detail as best as I can remember what I did, in case it is of any help to you.

So, in the beginning (we're talking years in the past), I was very into the idea of creating one's own dream sign for dream incubation. I remember I wanted to dream about dragons, so I went on a quest and showered in whatever media I could find that dealt with such beasts. I watched movies about dragons, I read books and even drew the damn things if I had to. Surprisingly, it took only two days for me to finally see a dragon in my dream, though I never got lucid. I was overjoyed by the results, but man those two days were the most tedious and boring I had ever done, so I dropped the thing soon after. I still learned a valuable lesson: dream incubation does work. Naturally, I looked next into building my own personal totem.

For this second experiment I didn't wanted to repeat those awful two days, so this time, I tried using an object. I had an old deck of cards lying around somewhere on my desk, so I opened and drew from the pack the Ace of Spades. Why that card? Well, I figured it had the best design out of the rest and thought the more creative the card, the easier it was to remember. I placed the thing on my back pocket and went through life as usual. The following days went by and there was no trace of the card in my dreams. This wasn't surprising, since I barely even touched or looked at the card while I was out and about. So, I added reality checks with the card to boost its time of use. I also manipulated and ran it through my fingers frequently while working or reading or whatever. Yet, despite the amount of time I spent with it, the Ace of Spades never materialized in my dreams. I dropped this exercise too after about three to four weeks.

For the following years I never returned to the experiment and even forgot about lucid dreaming altogether. The only time I've tried something like it was almost a year and a half ago when I returned to practice. With a little more experience I decided to commit on a little discipline and not search for an easy way into things. I began to meditate and tried keeping a regular dream journal. Around the last days of June my family bought a large 3-D puzzle to solve. We were trying to build the Hogwarts castle and grounds. This was a very big project you see, judging by the number of tiny pieces lying around, and so, for the next couple of weeks we gathered around a round table everyday to work on it. I had so much fun, and I was so into it, that I liked staying way into the night piecing the puzzle together. And then, for two nights, I remember dreaming about the table and the puzzle:

Spoiler for Dreaming of table #1 (night of June 26, 2020):

I see a circular plate floating in the sky. It takes almost my whole view. I feel pleasantly delighted with it, as it has the proper dimensions to fit a set of 3D puzzle pieces around its perimeter.

Spoiler for Dreaming of table #2 (night of June 27, 2020)::

So, there I see a table, a big, round table standing alone somewhere. Was it a room? Or perhaps the table was outside? I believe it was a room. Anyway, I remember this place having a clear and distinct source of light. On the table laid spread out a number of different sized socks, of both white and black colors.

I finished the puzzle during or after the night of that last dream. With that, I never dreamt again of the table, nor the puzzle; but it inspired me to experiment some more. I thought about how invested I was working things out, that at first I thought about creating my little shrine for lucidity and dreams. It would've been a small place, perhaps a room I could stylize with posters with mantras or pictures I could use; a place where I would be reminded consistently for a few hours or so about lucidity. I discarded the idea, however, one, because I had no place in my home to build such a shrine, and two, because I thought it would end up failing like the experiment with the card. After all, passive observation of things and non-intervention with them have almost never made their way inside my dreams. The puzzle worked because I was mentally invested with the task at hand. Just like with my card or your experiment with the switch, DarkestDarkness, the totem can't serve its purpose if we're going to ignore it for the majority of the day.

I thought about memory then. I wondered why reality checks almost never made their way inside our dreams. I think I've only ever used a reality check once in a lucid dream. I thought about how hard it must be to remember something, let alone remembering to do something while non-lucid. I mean, remembering anything during waking life is hard enough. You have to make an effort to put things to memory, and even then it's so easy to forget. Funny thing about forgetting is that the very act of it makes you remember what you forgot. In fact, I'd say many of the times I've remembered something I needed to do was because I had forgot about it in the first place. You know what I mean, any time when you returned home and forgot to buy this or that. Forgetting always came first, and through it you remembered. And forgetting is totally spontaneous and effortless, unlike remembering, which can have a bit of both a spontaneous and intentional aspect to it. So, why are we directing our focus to the memorizing aspect of things and not the other way around. Thus, with newfound knowledge I designed my third and last experiment.

First, I grabbed a large blank piece of paper and folded until only a small square piece could fit on my hand. Next, I chose to play a little game. The first rule was to keep hold of this piece of paper at all times in my possession. I could never let go off it, except when going to sleep and special occasions. The second rule was that the object should always be moving, or to put it in other words, I must always be reminded of it, in some way or another. That means no hiding the thing on your pockets or set aside elsewhere or whatever. The third and last rule, was that should the small piece of paper fall out of your hands at some point in the day, you should immediately look for it, retrieve it, and do a reality check. With this last rule I thought I would take advantage of the forgetting element should I lose the piece of paper for any reason. By keeping the thing consistently with me throughout the day, except at night, I expected I would end up having that feeling of forgetting only or mostly, during a dream. Now, I tried this for a month and don't remember exactly how long it took to have an effect, but I remember a couple of dreams in which I succeeded:

Spoiler for Dream Sample #1 (NLD) - night of July 2, 2020:

As a formless observer I see myself at the front door of the house where I'm currently staying. There's two other people with me. C stands beside the sofa and U. Ch in front of the kitchen table. The observer part in me locates an object approaching from outside towards the entrance. It is a square-looking thing that my dream self recognizes as my reality check (it is). It rolls its way up the steps and stops before the door. But my dream self denies it passage, explaining to my two guests, that because I don’t know what the object entails, unless we're to open the door and find out, then it would "defeat the purpose" of the reality check altogether, and so I couldn't invite it in.

Spoiler for Dream Sample #2 (LD) - night of July 18, 2020:

When I came back from the restroom I was arguing with Myrna about the nature of destiny and if life was predestined from the beginning. None of us were backing down from the argument, and I was getting frustrated. At last I reached my tipping point and sat down outside the bathroom doors. Myrna continued along the hallway with Cesar until they reached the end. It was a hall with beige marble walls facing a long mirror. While I had dinner a waiter stood nearby. Myrna waits enough to get desperate and walks back to me. I realize it's time to leave, so I get up to put an end to this childish tantrum.

"It's getting late! Look, you forgot the papers!" she says, while opening the door to the restrooms.

I follow her to a most elegant and sparkling facility of crystal black marble walls. She brakes step by the door to one of the bathroom stalls and opens it. What I saw when I turned to look was a toilet with the lid down, and on top of it, a small piece of parchment, nicely folded (my reality check). I worriedly grab it and we leave to meet up with Cesar...

That last dream was the closest I've ever been with a totem making it into the dream and almost successfully making me lucid, as I eventually went lucid later in the dream. Anyway, I only tried it for a month and these two dreams is what I have to share. Since then, I gave up on it and continued meditating and journaling and found those two to be better than this wild ride of experiments, but I still think a totem could work one day. I think with a little tweaking and more practice you could make this last test work out with some frequency but who knows really.

And now I've noticed I've written an essay and then some, that I don't know if anyone will reach this far. Well, it was certainly fun going down memory lane remembering some of the crazy things I've attempted trying to lucid dream.

I don't mind the length of your writing but seen as its late for me and I haven't been very active anyway, I will probably be short in my reply at the moment.

The way you tried to induce dragons into dreaming is very similar to my successfully induced dream sign; incidentally, the only one to ever be successful. I think besides being mentally invested in something, we also have to be emotionally and symbolically invested in it too. Though the appearance of my artificial sign is not particularly common, how common it is fluctuates based on the media I've recently seen or made that is related in context but again my primary issue with it is that, besides how uncommon it still is and however likely I am to RC to it, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that I succeed in realising that I'm dreaming.

And reading that bit has made me realise that I have perhaps allowed myself to be too casual about my sign.

It was very interesting to read your experiments and especially what you said about memory and forgetting made sense to me. I really appreciate how you shared so much detail, too.

As I might have said previously on the thread, I don't have much of an expectation that I can get this type of stuff around totems to work, for me personally, but I don't think it's a waste of time for trying stuff out. I would say your experiments around the subject have had more structure than mine in general, which is probably a contributing factor to some measure of success; as you said, being mentally invested seems particularly relevant.