Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
He never says that the body sends messages to the brain, he uses the word mind. What I take him to mean by this is the conscious mind. There are parts of the brain that only deal with bodily functions and there are parts of the brain that only relate to a person's conscious self. Most likely, these signals are coming from the medula oblongata and are going through the nervous system and back up through the sensory receptors that connect to the conscious mind.

These signals are real. Sometimes they come as a phantom itch, but sometimes they are purely just an urge to move and are not accompanied by any specific discomfort. In some people, this urge to move is over-active and then it is called Restless Leg Syndrome.
Sorry, I still don't buy it.
You're very good at trying to justify the vague statments Newport makes, and I give you credit for that. However, his own videos, "from the horses mouth" as it were, he makes much less coherent sense than you do.
He makes claims like "the body never really knows if the mind is asleep or not"
Which part of the body does the "knowing" or "not knowing?"

You can try and justify what he says, but my direct experience of his videos, claims and his seeming "knowledge" do not paint a picture that convinces me whatsoever that he knows what he is talking about.

I still firmly believe that the sensations to move etc whilst falling asleep are not "tests" from the body, they are simply amplified physical sensations and discomfort because your sensory input is limited and so has little else but them to focus on.

Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
If you have had enough success with WILD's, you will start to realize that many WILD attempts will be accompanied by this urge to move, and if you manage to ignore it, the vibrations will follow directly afterwards, which then lead to sleep and your lucid dream.
I am lucky enough to have experienced hundred of WILDs in my life.
I have never had to force myself to stay still, not once.
I don't think the problem is the urges to move, and having to ignore them.
I think the problem is paying-to-much-attention to the physical body.
You can force yourself to stay still, but if you are still focusing on the physical body, how on earth can your mind shift its awareness into its own internal model?

I've had WILDs moments after scratching an itch,
moments after moving into a more comfortable postion (in fact often moving into the more comfortable postion was all i needed to do to fall asleep faster)

I genuinely believe from my own experience of many many WILDs, and from plenty of discussions about such things, that your body certainly does not have some kind of "mind testing" system built into it.
I am also convinced that the itches, urges to move etc. are ONLY a problem if you let them be. Only a week ago, I was laying in bed waiting to drop off,
spent about half an hour feeling just a bit too hot and uncomfortable, so stood up, turned the bed sheets over so they were cooler, then got back into bed... within seconds the dreamscape formed around me.
This is after completely giving into the urge to get more comfortable.

I really think that all that happens when you fall into the dream is this:

Your brain/mind shifts its awareness from external stimulous to internal generated modeling.

Whatever you do that makes you focus on the external, is going to be counterproductive. Even if what you are doing is focusing on ignoring the urge to move... because that is still an external focus.

Best advice I can give to people, is relax, let it go, give the external world the bare minimum thought as possible... if your uncomforable and it's forcing you to focus on the external, move a bit to get comfy.
Just don't obsess about it, because that obsession is still external focus.
You want external focus to just fade out so internal focus can take over.

One trick that is similar that I use, is if i hear an external noise distracting my mind, and forcing me to focus on external waking reality, I will try to override that noise with an imaginary tune, or if that isn't easy, i will use the external noise as a basis for an imaginary tune (say the beep of a car alarm would become a beat in a tune in my head)... this way the external influence gets lessened.

But saying "absolutely ignore any urge to move"
is a bit like saying "don't think about a purple penguin"
It is self defeating, it creates a focus on the very thing you shouldn't be focusing on.

Sure not moving is definitely benificial. But only if it is pointing your mind in the direction of internal focusing.


So sorry, I appreciate your attepmts to justify Newport, I just absoultely do not agree with either his theories, sales style, need to be an expert... well everything he's doing pretty much.
It's confusing and misleading the subject of lucid dreaming.
And it's a subject I care to strongly about to stand by and ignore this kind of nonsense.