Well I've proved it to myself. i know what mysenses tell me, and scientists and others that try to tell me otherwise can go fuck themselves... because i know better. |
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Hello all. |
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Well I've proved it to myself. i know what mysenses tell me, and scientists and others that try to tell me otherwise can go fuck themselves... because i know better. |
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The Best of my dream journal
MoSh: How about you stop trying to define everything, and just accept what you experience, and explore it.
- From the DJ of Waking Nomad!
I have to say JimmyD I actually agree with you. Everything that goes on in a dream is a product of your mind. Their isn't such a thing as the "dream realm". Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of dreaming lucid and non-lucid, but essentially all it is is a paralyzed hallucination. For me I would have to personally experience something for me to even entertain the idea. |
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lol my boys, you think its nonsense because you are climbing too high, seriously, lotsofface mentions "dream realm" WTF? If you are really a science guy, then you would first go about questioning dream sharing, and if its real, THEN ponder about any possible explanation, not before. |
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Well since the function of dreams is still unknown, I still wouldn't rule out the possibility that it is more than just a paralyzed hallucination. Of course, on the other hand, the only real way to know that shared dreaming does exist is to have many experiences that both you and other person(s) in the dream can confirm in waking life. |
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http://www.dreamviews.com/f107/share...ou-moon-84188/ Here is the old shared dreams journal documenting what you were just saying. read it and weep. They aren't all isolated incidents, it's real, and can be done between a group of people. |
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The Best of my dream journal
MoSh: How about you stop trying to define everything, and just accept what you experience, and explore it.
- From the DJ of Waking Nomad!
anecdotes are all good and fun but honestly there is absolutely no science to the idea, and in fact it seems that our current understanding of neuroscience and sleep science would lead one to believe that any sort of "shared dreaming" claims are either coincidental, or a lie. |
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you haven't even read it. and you still haven't explained or convinced me of anything. you haven't even looked at the evidence. These just aren't colorful anecdotes, they are logs of shared dreams. and many of them happened with people who weren't trying to share dreams. Read it first and then try to explain it away. I dare you. eitherwise, you are making judgements without your own evidence. |
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The Best of my dream journal
MoSh: How about you stop trying to define everything, and just accept what you experience, and explore it.
- From the DJ of Waking Nomad!
Trust me I have read plenty of shared dream journals and honestly, they're fascinating. I'm amazed about them. The issue here is validity, and scientific explanation. If this was to be properly documented in a controlled scientific environment, that still doesn't provide any sort of ground for this concept. Are you saying that there is a different realm, that a person physically enters during a dream, where he can literally come into contact with other people who happen to be dreaming at the exact same time? REM periods are very distinct and there's no way of knowing unless put under an EEG whether or not you were actually dreaming at the same time, or if you coincidentally had the same dream. Sure, the journals are impressive, and hard to dismiss, but until you can actual explain how shared dream actually works, instead of just saying it does and providing examples, then there's really no reason to consider it. |
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honestly you've read plenty of shared dream journals? Link them please. I would like to read them. |
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The Best of my dream journal
MoSh: How about you stop trying to define everything, and just accept what you experience, and explore it.
- From the DJ of Waking Nomad!
shared dreaming and the facts behind the myth |
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JimmyD, lotsofface... Let's talk science... There are scientific experiments currently underway at Princeton University that have shown evidence of a global reaction just prior to a major disaster, they have computers that record minor changes in emotions, brainwave patterns, energy, etc. There is a reaction all around the globe just prior to a serious disaster such as the earthquake in Haiti. This shows that not only is there a reaction BEFORE the event, but that everyone is connected on some level such that everyone responded at the same time all around the globe. Since Princeton's experiments show that everyone is connected on some level, why couldn't that same connection be used to share a dream? I have included a link to the Princeton Global Consciousness site. |
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"Anything you can imagine is real." - Pablo Picasso.
"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau
Tasks of the Year Completed: China (Asia)
those pages still haven't explained why me and many others share dreams. Perhaps science just hasn't yet explained why they happen. AND even according to science the brain is still a very mysterious organ. If you want science to explain shared dreams, then go into the science of energy fields that humans give off, and also study quantum mechanics. I'm sorry Science has FAILED to explain why me and so many others shared dreams. and you STILL HAVEN'T Read through my evidence. |
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Last edited by Man of Shred; 09-17-2010 at 03:36 AM.
The Best of my dream journal
MoSh: How about you stop trying to define everything, and just accept what you experience, and explore it.
- From the DJ of Waking Nomad!
Now then, i am scientists of sort but i still do not understand why one needs scientific prove for the possibility of SD. Personal experience is the best prove of all. Is like love no one can prove to you scientifically that you love someone but still you know that it is true,no? How? Eh, you just know that it is true. The same is with SD. One experiences and then knows. |
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That Princeton study actually looks pretty interesting, I'll have to check that out. |
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Although I haven't yet, if I did have an SD experience that would be all the proof I need for myself. However, the implications of proving shared dreaming scientifically are huge. You'd prove to the world that our brains are connected in some way other than the 5 senses! That's a notion that, without a huge amount of proof, would get you laughed off the scientific scene very quickly. That's why, when Zebrah started this thread I was so enthusiastic. Unfortunately, that project never got off the ground, and the forums we started for it basically died (it still exists, but I don't remember the URL and it's invite-only.). |
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My username does not mean anything. It's not supposed to signal my religious preferences at all.
Dream Recall: Recall one dream each day for a week (meaning one DJ entry per day)[] Recall three dreams in one night (3 separate dreams in the DJ)[]
Becoming Lucid: Become lucid once[X] Become lucid at least four times in one week[] WILD[]
Dream Control: Fly[]
It think it's good to be skeptical, but the mind is an amazing thing... |
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I'm open-minded, so to be honest, I don't stand on any side of this debate. Although I'm tipping towards the idea that shared dreaming could be real |
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"Actually, there is no scientific research about where we go when we dream" |
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I think it's nonsense to just dismiss the idea of shared dreaming, there is not enough evidence as of now to make a decision either way. I *hope* that shared dreaming exists, but am not sufficiently convinced. I am also skeptical of the idea of a dream realm, but I could very much have a way that a dream realm exists: |
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I'm not necessarily arguing against the existence of souls, but this argument is flawed. First, we do pretty much know what guides a cell. The DNA doesn't directly control anything, but the DNA is transcribed into RNA, which is read outside the nucleus to build proteins. These proteins do all the work of the cell, with each doing its own thing (which it does because of the specific order and twisting of the amino acids it's made out of) and together producing a working cell. If all of the DNA in a cell suddenly disappeared, it would continue to work for a time, but it would never be able to divide and eventually the proteins would denature and the cell would die, since it wouldn't be able to produce new proteins. And the cell knows to produce pigment because it's received instructions from proteins telling it which DNA to activate and which DNA not to use (I'm not exactly sure how this works, but I think that the cell receives its instructions in the form of certain chemicals which cells can use to communicate between each other. For example, a cell in the eye would produce a certain chemical which, in enough of a concentration, would tell all the cells in the area that they're in the eye. Again, I'm not sure the exact mechanisms of it, so I can't really respond if you have any questions about that). Another flaw in your argument is that you say that cells are proof of a soul, yet bacteria, fish, insects, birds, trees - they all function well, and I'd assume you don't think a bacteria has a soul. |
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My username does not mean anything. It's not supposed to signal my religious preferences at all.
Dream Recall: Recall one dream each day for a week (meaning one DJ entry per day)[] Recall three dreams in one night (3 separate dreams in the DJ)[]
Becoming Lucid: Become lucid once[X] Become lucid at least four times in one week[] WILD[]
Dream Control: Fly[]
Yeah, I'm working on that with WakingNomad. This is the first time I've tried to examine and explain how the shared dreams work, but hopefully it will prove to be something everyone can experience if they want to. I already believe in shared dreaming through personal experience, but I don't expect skeptics to take my word as proof... It would be awesome if the class could result in some more solid evidence to prove what I have already experienced to be true. I don't know if new people are still being accepted into the shared dreaming class or not, but I would say it's a good place to start for anyone looking for answers as long as they are willing to treat others with respect, even if they don't share the same beliefs. |
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"Anything you can imagine is real." - Pablo Picasso.
"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau
Tasks of the Year Completed: China (Asia)
Actually, I would argue that plants, animals, and bacteria all have souls. However, their souls would be a lot simpler than our souls. Anyway, your refutation to my arguments have already been addressed, just I hate to go into more detail then I already tend to. Neither the DNA nor the RNA still explain how the cell functions. You're looking too much at the bigger picture of such a small thing. Although the DNA/RNA would tell the Endoplasmic Reticulum (ER) exactly what it's duty is, it doesn't tell the ER exactly how to carry out this process. We know a little of how a cell functions, but how exactly do the organelles function? You also said that the 'eye-cells' receive special 'eye-cell' chemicals to tell it that it is an 'eye-cell.' This still doesn't explain how the body knows to send that chemical to that particular cell. We think we know so much about the world, when really we know nothing. We know just as much as the Ancient Greeks and Romans did. |
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As I said, I don't Know that much about the subject. But, I have myself changed around the DNA in bacteria and microscopic worms, and seen them grow into different things than what they originally grew into. |
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My username does not mean anything. It's not supposed to signal my religious preferences at all.
Dream Recall: Recall one dream each day for a week (meaning one DJ entry per day)[] Recall three dreams in one night (3 separate dreams in the DJ)[]
Becoming Lucid: Become lucid once[X] Become lucid at least four times in one week[] WILD[]
Dream Control: Fly[]
I guess my last note for pondering actually comes from "The Dreaming Brain" by J. Allan Hobson |
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