Thread: Shared Dreaming Challenge- not what you think.

Good start, Sivason!

I hope lots of dreamers play, learn, and offer up new ideas here...

Im in right after the lucid competition is finished in a week or so..

good idea man!

Thank you Sivason
I don’t Lucid dream and don’t want to. So I will incubate and intend. I will imagine doing it while awake and go to sleep repeating an affirmation. This is exciting. Thanx again Sivason.

Originally Posted by debrajane

I don’t Lucid dream and don’t want to. So I will incubate and intend. I will imagine doing it while awake and go to sleep repeating an affirmation. This is exciting. Thanx again Sivason.

That's like what I do. A difference is that my 'intend' is a simple statement of interest which I don't repeat or affirm. Then my 'subconscious' does something creative in response to that, and I feed the process by taking the time the next day to think about the resulting dream experience.

An obvious disadvantage of my approach is I don't overtly control what dreams I have. But that's also an advantage in that it gives the semi-collective/higher-self/subconscious mind more latitude to do interesting things.

I think one of the important prerequisites for shared dreaming, such as I refer to, is being able to let go of your sense of identity a little bit and let it move to a different place. I think the intimacy and vulnerability that this involves is a little scary, and probably should be.

Practice in active thinking during the day about things like feeling and identity helps also, because it makes you able to recognize and process what you're dealing with. Along with that, I think its a good idea to have a strong sense of integrity and what you value also, to avoid losing yourself to other influences that don't have your best interests at heart.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

That's like what I do. A difference is that my 'intend' is a simple statement of interest which I don't repeat or affirm. Then my 'subconscious' does something creative in response to that, and I feed the process by taking the time the next day to think about the resulting dream experience.

An obvious disadvantage of my approach is I don't overtly control what dreams I have. But that's also an advantage in that it gives the semi-collective/higher-self/subconscious mind more latitude to do interesting things.

I think one of the important prerequisites for shared dreaming, such as I refer to, is being able to let go of your sense of identity a little bit and let it move to a different place. I think the intimacy and vulnerability that this involves is a little scary, and probably should be.

Practice in active thinking during the day about things like feeling and identity helps also, because it makes you able to recognize and process what you're dealing with. Along with that, I think its a good idea to have a strong sense of integrity and what you value also, to avoid losing yourself to other influences that don't have your best interests at heart.

Replace the word “dance” with “Share-Dream”

And plea like Mary Frances Crosby to old Grandpa Fred Astaire (Sivason hehehe):

Fred Astaire & Mary Frances Crosby - "Pick Yourself Up" - YouTube

(2:36) 430 views uploaded this year on Feb 23rd 2012

Sivason (or friends of Sivason) and advanced dreamer (dancers)

Oh, Argument thread for those who want to thrash things out is here:

http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/shared...debate-120211/


shadowofwind

Some of my best (and totally different) dreams happened when I tried to incubate and intend but got too sad and/or depressed and just gave-up, (had a fondle) and slept.

Debrajane,

The darkest and most joyful parts of my mind are very close together. Awareness of love, beauty and justice makes us happy, but then we see the contrast with who we are and what we have created and its hard not to get down about that.

I'm in shock that animals eat other animals, that people sacrifice each other and their selves in their quest for the things they seem to need to feel OK. Life to me is a nightmare that I never wake up from. I see some of the things happen to people and it seems something in me is pushed farther than it goes. And it seems there's little consolation. Show a tear in front of someone, a little of what you have experienced, and chances are good that they will try to protect themselves by running away from you. The face is a mirror, the truth is engraved on everyone's soul, and everyone runs around in a panic trying to avoid the reflections.

I realize I'm going off topic here, though maybe not so far. Shared dreaming isn't possible unless the door is open to share, and unless we can bear feeling the part of ourselves that is able to do that.

So I attempted my own challenges last night. I had an amazing LD! I did complete the first challenge and came so darn close to completing the combined challenge. I could have completed it but did not say the phrase in an audible voice. The LD had been going on for over 30 minutes, and there I was on top of a very vivid nice pyramid, when I thought "I am looking for someone!" It did not come out audible, and before I could try again my pesky brain responded "OH? Who are you looking for?" I fell for it and got distracted trying to remeber who I was looking for, totally forgetting I was just supposed to say the phrase out loud.
Here is the link to the LD. and it is very interesting. I hope it is not boring as it is over two pages long. http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/siva...allenge-37501/

The point I am getting from this, is that even fairly simple sounding tasks can be very hard. I think developing the ability to call out a specific phrase in an audible voice and getting to a specific place would be good starting points in our shared dreaming training.

As you note, Sivason, remembering is every bit as important as calling out that phrase ... you must have your waking-life memory with you in order to understand what it is that calling-out even means.

Even then, it's a bitch. I've been to the top of that "pyramid" many times (though it was never a pyramid), and shouted my dream lungs out, memory intact; only to get silence in response.

Though your steps are definitely the correct initiation into the process, even after you've mastered them, there is still the problem of contacting another dreamer, then knowing you contacted them, and, finally, understanding the meaning of that contact (i.e., who you met and what they said). I think Shadowofwind's post (just before yours) might hit that target a bit more soundly that even he is willing to admit...

Originally Posted by Sageous

As you note, Sivason, remembering is every bit as important as calling out that phrase ... you must have your waking-life memory with you in order to understand what it is that calling-out even means.

Even then, it's a bitch. I've been to the top of that "pyramid" many times (though it was never a pyramid), and shouted my dream lungs out, memory intact; only to get silence in response.

Though your steps are definitely the correct initiation into the process, even after you've mastered them, there is still the problem of contacting another dreamer, then knowing you contacted them, and, finally, understanding the meaning of that contact (i.e., who you met and what they said). I think Shadowofwind's post (just before yours) might hit that target a bit more soundly that even he is willing to admit...

Maybe you can suggest another basic challenge that you feel may helps us address those issues. Take your time, I am not sure what basic thing we can work on that may help, but if you can suggest something, I am sure we would all be willing to try it.

^^ No, no, you misunderstand, Sivason!

Your basic challenge is an excellent one, and forms a strong foundation for the "challenges" that will follow, once this one is licked. In fact, I wasn't going to post at all, but your note about remembering, coupled with Shadowofwind's note about subtle communication, somehow compelled me to amplify both points.

So I guess all I was really trying to say was that maybe the core of your challenges needs just one more piece: memory. I think remembering why you're shouting from the top of that pyramid is as important as actually doing it, and perhaps I hoped to suggest that that aspect get added in somehow. And, of course, I wanted to point out that this is just the beginning.

Sorry for interfering -- it wasn't my place, especially because you're already doing the right thing.

I gave myself similar dream goals to this a several months back, although I was looking for Nietzsche (my favorite philosopher). So, I wasn't trying to connect with an actual person to share a dream with, just cultivating the abilities to summon or find someone in a dream, transport myself to a specific person and/or place, and remember complex information and goals within the dream.

Here are the DJ entries where I achieved this:
Plucking the Sun from the Sky
Strange Conversations with Sharon
Meeting Nietzsche

Right now I am working on body transformations as my lucid goal, but as soon as I achieve this, I will refresh my skills in this area and try going to a pyramid. (I imagine these same skills will come in handy when its time for me to contact my dream guide again.)

After achieving these goals, what next steps do you recommend, Sivason?

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ No, no, you misunderstand, Sivason!

Your basic challenge is an excellent one, and forms a strong foundation for the "challenges" that will follow, once this one is licked. In fact, I wasn't going to post at all, but your note about remembering, coupled with Shadowofwind's note about subtle communication, somehow compelled me to amplify both points.

So I guess all I was really trying to say was that maybe the core of your challenges needs just one more piece: memory. I think remembering why you're shouting from the top of that pyramid is as important as actually doing it, and perhaps I hoped to suggest that that aspect get added in somehow. And, of course, I wanted to point out that this is just the beginning.

Sorry for interfering -- it wasn't my place, especially because you're already doing the right thing.

LOL! No, no you misunderstand me! I was not even a hint offended or anything. I was honestly hoping you may help me come up with another basic challenge that would work on that. So, I guess the issue is bringing enough waking memory in the dream? That makes sense, maybe a new challenge could somehow be made to improve this aspect of our dreams. I was truely just hoping that you, as one of our most experienced dreamers, might have an idea how we could work on it. I guess we could stick to these two and later add another,. Do you think the old standard of remebering where you are sleeping and the time of the year (and maybe which year) or something of that nature would work?

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

I gave myself similar dream goals to this a several months back, although I was looking for Nietzsche (my favorite philosopher). So, I wasn't trying to connect with an actual person to share a dream with, just cultivating the abilities to summon or find someone in a dream, transport myself to a specific person and/or place, and remember complex information and goals within the dream.

Here are the DJ entries where I achieved this:
Plucking the Sun from the Sky
Strange Conversations with Sharon
Meeting Nietzsche

Right now I am working on body transformations as my lucid goal, but as soon as I achieve this, I will refresh my skills in this area and try going to a pyramid. (I imagine these same skills will come in handy when its time for me to contact my dream guide again.)

After achieving these goals, what next steps do you recommend, Sivason?

You know you are one of my most advanced students, so I have little fear that you will run into much trouble on this path. I promise I will help you in detail after you have completed the full course. For now, just work on these items and really put your all into creating a clear audible dream voice. Try to make it so powerful and resonant that it is an amazing experience all on its own. Shake the dream world with the beauty of your voice! Try making mantra sounds that are really vibratory. Maybe just start with the classic OHM sound and I will teach you more later. The power of your voice vibrating out OHM should be almost a spiritual thing in itself. Very very powerful magic in the audible dream voice when used this way.

Of course Sageous may be on to a reasonable next step, trying to enhance your waking conciousness and memory. I think if you are not spending all your attention on other training at the moment, simply work on remembering exactly where you went to sleep is a reasonable thing to work on. Also you can try remembering the year and month.

Edit Note: I am refering to teaching you about making contact with dream entities such as dream guides. The steps I would recommend for shared dreaming with another human still need some thought. I have never had confirmed contact with another human, but I can teach you the dream guide/entity stuff.

Originally Posted by sivason

LOL! No, no you misunderstand me! I was not even a hint offended or anything. I was honestly hoping you may help me come up with another basic challenge that would work on that. So, I guess the issue is bringing enough waking memory in the dream? That makes sense, maybe a new challenge could somehow be made to improve this aspect of our dreams. I was truely just hoping that you, as one of our most experienced dreamers, might have an idea how we could work on it. I guess we could stick to these two and later add another,. Do you think the old standard of remembering where you are sleeping and the time of the year (and maybe which year) or something of that nature would work?

Okay, I'll play ... but stop me if I get in the way, or on your nerves.

I think your initial challenges are best left alone, but I do suggest that you add a memory-based challenge later. The "standard" of remembering where you were asleep is probably still a good choice, but ultimately your challenge will need to nurture the waking memory necessary to not only "know" that you're sleeping somewhere, but to be able to tap waking-life metaphor to help you recognize the presence of the person with whom you are attempting to share your dream. Since odds are excellent that your dream-sharing partner will not be showing up with business cards, or likely even in human form, you'll need to really dig into your own mind to establish both your partner's presence and a means for communication.

So I'd keep it simple now, just like you're doing, but feed in memory challenges later.

And if anyone is still reading: Sivason's challenges are also very helpful to building your LD'ing skills, so they have great value even if you never meet anyone else in your dreams!

Uhh. Sivason. I think this is really odd. You see I had an interesting dream on the 22nd and it sorta involved you. I got an email from you in the dream . I wasn't even trying to do this challenge. Basically my dream was about my laptop messing up and saying "Windows has died" and it takes me to the recovery screen and then another message comes up saying I have an email. I look at the email but I don't remember it all, just a small snippet of it. The part I truly remember is "Lucid dream reflection 3D8" But I believe the email was about your speculation on what dimension dreams take place...or something. I know this isn't in my DJ on dreamviews, I am just lazy with posting my journal entries on there. You probably didn't even have a dream about sending an email but even so I just thought it was a weird coincidence when I saw this thread and the dream I had.

Type OHM into google.
Then click images.
Compare your 3D8 to the image of ohm, then comment on weather your dream meant anything.

Love it.

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

Type OHM into google.
Then click images.
Compare your 3D8 to the image of ohm, then comment on weather your dream meant anything.

Love it.

Wow. It looks pretty similar. I think this dream did mean something, I don't know what exactly but this is no coincidence

My dreams have gone somewhat in another direction the last few days it seems. A few of my thoughts, for whatever they're worth....

Openness and sharing are good. But privacy and individuality are good too. Some people are comfortable having sex with any stranger they encounter. Other people are more careful about engaging in that degree of physical intimacy. I think that similar principles apply with shared dreaming. Sometimes that kind of connection is right, even with a former stranger. Sometimes a little bit of distance is better.

For some of the people who are more into the virtual reality or dream plane type dreaming, I don't think that interacting with someone else that way necessarily involves a high degree of intimacy. It might, but the contact may be more in the colorful moving picture realm, which is less personal. For me, the contact is more personal, I feel myself as the other person. I don't think that kind of contact is always healthy. Sometimes it is, but that depends on both people and on circumstances.

A centrally important thing to me in life is trustworthiness, or the absence of it. Does psychic development help make us better people? I think it depends on the circumstances. The most psychically accomplished people I've known have definitely not been the most trustworthy, likewise for dream life prowess. More is definitely not always better. Sometimes small fish go into deep water, sometimes they need to stay in the shallow water. We are all small fish.

I can't say what I'll feel like tomorrow or a week from now, but right now I feel that I want to be closest to a few friends and family, that I'm not comfortable sharing my mind completely with everyone. Maybe that's just common sense. Its definitely an area I've had some confusion in though.

Daredevilpwn, your icon looks a lot like an image of the structure of our interconnected identity that I saw in a dream about 23 years ago. Maybe I'll try to post a sketch in a few minutes.

Almost completed the challenge last night.
Takes me much longer to drop off to sleep as I get older.
The lucid is going out of lucid dreaming.
My choice really.
Will try again in a few mins when I go back to bed for the night.
Night all.
Phil

Originally Posted by Daredevilpwn

Uhh. Sivason. I think this is really odd. You see I had an interesting dream on the 22nd and it sorta involved you. I got an email from you in the dream . I wasn't even trying to do this challenge. Basically my dream was about my laptop messing up and saying "Windows has died" and it takes me to the recovery screen and then another message comes up saying I have an email. I look at the email but I don't remember it all, just a small snippet of it. The part I truly remember is "Lucid dream reflection 3D8" But I believe the email was about your speculation on what dimension dreams take place...or something. I know this isn't in my DJ on dreamviews, I am just lazy with posting my journal entries on there. You probably didn't even have a dream about sending an email but even so I just thought it was a weird coincidence when I saw this thread and the dream I had.

Wow! that is truely weird. The OHM symbol looks exactly like a backwards 3 and a D and view as a whole the bottom portion forms an 8. I had just talked about OHM and you have that dream. Too cool. And thank you Tiredphil for pointing it out! I have no idea what it means, but it is cool.

Ohm looks exactly as you say. Very similar to 3D

As for the 8
To speak the word Ohm you have to breath in then out.
What you take in is oxygen ( Amongst other things )

Atomic number of oxygen is ??????? 8

Ohm is not meant to be a sound with meaning. It is there to settle the mind.
Repeating a sound with no meaning gets your brain in a very settled state

The breath is not yours. It belongs to the body.
You do not breath, your body does it automatically.

Focusing on the breath gets you to observe your body, as if it is seperate from you.

If you can seperate from the body in your mind, this is called astral projection, or dreaming, etc

A bit deep this, so I will pause for now

Phil

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines."

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines."

Silly statement
Shall we all wear the blinkers put on us by modern societies.
Explain please

Phil

^^ By the same token, should we all just convince ourselves that a thing happened because desired forms can be shaped from the coincidences at hand? Does exuberant rationalization now equal truth?

Explain please.