Originally Posted by shadowofwind
Death cell:
Drug use proponents have been calling non-drug users "out of touch" since at least the 1960's, this isn't a 1980's vs 2010's kind of thing.
I'm not a drug use or not drug use proponent. I'm a legality proponent because it should be up to the individual. I'm saying he's out of touch, because as a non-drug user; he has no direct experience with the market.. And it's not the 1980's, crack cocaine is not the hottest item on the streets.
Its a matter of you defining healthy behavior in terms of yourself and you own circle of friends, then pretending that anyone who is different from you has something wrong with them.
No it's not about being different, it's about fearmongering and hilarity of those who really don't know what their talking about.
This is a narrow, bullying attitude. We have been presenting an argument for a possible lifestyle choice, and stating our perceptions in support of that. Criticizing our viewpoints, arguments, and personal choices with rational arguments is perfectly legitimate, and I would be happy to speak to those criticisms. But for the most part your criticisms are based on straw men: you're assigning beliefs and lifestyle habits to us that we don't have and attacking us for those. For instance, nobody here is saying that marijuana is even remotely as bad as heroin, much less "worse".
I don't care about your personal choices, I care about your lack of knowledge on the subject and your pretending like your some sort of expert on the subject.. because for instance I can google some old studies saying some things about drugs in the 80's. Of course that wasn't you.
The reason Sivason assumed you're younger than you, if I may presume that for him, is he gave you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that your cavalier attitude towards the suffering of addicts and LSD-'fried' people is due to lack of experience, as opposed to having a hard heart.
Yeah.. theirs just so many acid fried people now-a-days.. you seem em all over he place. Addicts need to help themselves, I am not their custodian, master or keeper.
You can do as much acid as you want and I have no problem with that, and I'll support you if you try to change the laws to gain more freedom in that regard. But I'm not going to stay silent while you try to influence other people with claims that I perceive to be misleading and dangerous to people's health.
None of my claims are misleading or dangerous to people's health, so it looks like you can stay silent.
My friend was a math major, and he had to drop out after doing too much LSD because he couldn't do the higher level math any more. I care about that.
Oh yeah? He couldn't do higher level math any more? Than stop taking the acid. Or.. wait.. is this story completely made up? It is the internet after all.
Even if you don't care about that, or if I'm somehow wrong about it, I still have an obligation to people like him to say what I see.
And I have the obligation to tell people what I see, the same propaganda that has been spilled out of the governments mouths for years. Don't do acid, your brain will be like a fried egg. Delicious. If you take acid you won't forget how to do math, you just can't take the acid every day.. that's called stupid.
his is not entirely unlike how you are moved say something when other people make arguments that appear contrary to what what you believe and value. A difference here is that Sivason, and Sageous, and myself care very much about the mental and physical health of possible future drug users.
I say simply do your own research, and don't trust a bunch of old men on a forum.
I'm not seeing that you do, or you wouldn't be so antagonistic about what we're saying. You'd just be agreeing with us in spirit and making distinctions between your views and ours, much how I have been doing with Sivason. If you don't care about them that's fine, or if you do care in a way that isn't obvious to us, that's fine too. I'm just trying to be clear about what we're trying to say, since you have been systematically mischaracterizing it.
Not at all actually. I don't agree with anyone in spirit when what they say is false. I don't agree with lies.
When I was 20 I was working to pay for college. When other people complained about how hard it is to work and go to school, without help from parents, I didn't have any sympathy for them. It wasn't any problem for me, and I was too stupid to recognize that other people aren't all like me and can't be 'responsible' in quite my manner even if they wanted to. Your attitude towards drug abusers is very similar. Since you are so far able to stay in control, you view it as their failing if they have problems, and view responsibility for that failing to be separable from the characteristics of the drugs.
Yeah.. man I'm able to stay in control, you guys really are a hoot.. In George W Bush voice.. I'm just trying to worry about your healths and stuffs hehehehehe
It's amazing I can stay in control, that mary jane hasn't led me into a pit of nothingness..
No good for nothings like Carl Sagan.. how did they stay in control their entire lives? I don't get it.. Because drugs are bad mmmkaayy.
I don't need to recognize that other people are addicts, other people are stupid as well, that's life.
At least that's what it looks to everyone like you're saying. But other people aren't like you, and you're going to change too. Ten or twenty years from now you might no longer be able to stay in control.
There it is man.. I might just lose control man.. and smoke weed all day and quit my job man.. because drugs are bad mmmkayy..
Like I said.. you guys are fake. You're pretending like you understand drugs, but don't understand that the majority of people who use drugs.. DON'T EVER HAVE A PROBLEM.
How many people drink alcohol? How many people are alcoholics?
In ten or twenty years.. my internment ... maybe once a year use of hallucinogenics and consistent cannabis consumption will turn me into a no-good pot addict, scrapping my bowl late into the night looking for that little piece of resin!!!
And than I'll have the gall to watch an entertaining show and eat a sandwich..
I could become a couch potato...
OMG.
Clearly you accept that risk, and that's fine.
There is no risk. My family does not have a history of schizophrenia or other mental issues. The MOST risk I have is procuring illegal things. That's the cruel fact about most of these illegal drugs, you're more likely to get fucked legally, than any health issues.
Doing ACID or other harder hallucinogenics is something that is meant to be done on occasion, it's not I repeat not expected to be a daily, weekly, or even monthly ritual. People that do these drugs consistently for extended periods of time, are morons.
But its wrong to imply that other people can all just do what you do if they want to, and its no concern to us if they don't or can't.
Of course it's not. That's the whole point of a free-society.. Unless what someone is doing is affecting me or someone else, it really isn't any of mine or yours business. That's why violent crimes, I'm against.
And there is also the issue of subtle adverse effects of drugs besides addiction and overdose. We haven't said a lot to support our views on those, but for the most part you haven't been open to that, you've just ridiculed whatever we have said as hopelessly ill-informed and bogged the discussion down with criticisms of things we are not saying.
It's called reading between the lines, I can smell when someone is just bsing. You are saying them, your trying to veil and mask them behind a wall of no .. we aren't against that we just think all drugs are bad mmkay. These are things you are saying, I know it hurts. Things like (I'll eventually lose control in the future) show your true lack of understanding or any positive opinion on drugs.. It's only negative to you, but you've been associated with enough people that you grin and smile while thinking, druggie. You're the kind of guy I wouldn't enjoy being around, there's nothing worse than a guy who thinks he's better than you.
Its true that I'm a bore at a party, unless its a party where people attempt to share their transcendent experiences, sober, and argue about Patanjali or Laotse.
Do you not know what a party is? You want a meeting of the minds, a party is a social function meant for joviality and entertainment. Sober parties are possible with games and other things.. but never is a party meant as a place to share transcendent experiences and argue about obscure topics.
I didn't ask to be invited to any parties though. I just expressed a wistful desire to be able to share what I care about with people who's intuitions and reasoning abilities aren't degraded by drug use. If anyone contends that their drug use is compatible with such explorations, then bring it on, show me. If you value what I value, to anything like the same extent, you can't help but hope to give something of what you have learned to others, if you're reasonably comfortable they won't abuse it. We can share dreams. We can talk about our experiences. We can speculate about big questions. If you're not interested in doing any of this in an internet forum, we can even do it telepathetically instead, within limits.
Great but when do you live? Between all the desire for knowledge, a neverending quest is a lofty.. to ignore the call of the Aquarian age... The mere use of substances, alcohol, marijuana, other is an experience and an exploration; you can't discuss a drug experience you actually have to experience it.
If you're not interested in any of that, or can't do it, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. There's no reason that my interests and understanding should measure what is meaningful to someone else. But then that just confirms part of what I was alleging about hallucinogen use, that people who are doing hallucinogens do not seem to be developing much in the 'spiritual growth' areas that I'm interested in, or concerned about it, and instead they're doing something else.
Blah blah meaning.. There is no meaning. That is the point. Meaning is for the building of cultures and civilizations, but life itself has no meaning. It's the journey and nothing but. The "spiritual growth" area's that you may be interested in, may not have any relevance. You can learn from other people, people are doing something else, because that's the individual experience but you seem to want to miss out on it because it's not what you want to do.. that's how you miss out on experiences.. You'll be nothing but who you always are if you don't open yourself up to other peoples experiences, and to follow them on their journeys at certain points.. a life of a singular goal is one life less experiences.. knowledge is merely one part of your existence.
I'm actually extremely busy right now, trying to help my wife and kids move 2000 miles while I work somewhere else. I've posted to try to support Sageous and Sivason only because I care about what they're trying to say, and my perspective might add something since its a little bit different than theirs. And I'm always willing to try to make room to talk 'personal growth', if we can find any common ground for that. But if everybody is pretty happy with the approach they've been taking to the conversation, and doesn't think that anything is going to come of it except hurled insults, then like Sageous I've said what I have to say and would rather not be involved further.
When you come into a discussion and assume that if your not an addict now, eventually you will be.. than you come into the discussion with an extreme bias that is unforgivable and clearly obvious to anyone who can read beyond the surface of someones words.
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