Astral Projection Validity?

[yuppie11975]

I'm going to say this straight up; this is the place for a civil debate. This is my subjective opinion. I just do not understand the concept of Astral Projection. I've done considerable amounts of research on the topic, mostly because I frequently receive questions about it on my DEILD guide. However, that being said, it honestly just seems like an extent of a lucid dream to me. Let's look at how AP is defined on the DV wiki. 'Astral Projection is the act of leaving ones body and projecting his or her mind onto the astral plane'. Doesn't this sound fictitious to some? So personally, I'm not a subscriber to the concept of AP. Although, if anyone would like to vouch for this premise, I'm happy to listen with an open mind.

[gab]

Hi yuppie, there is already a few similar discussions here, you may wanna check those out. *Moved to Beyond dreaming

[Dthoughts]

It is similar to shamanic practices that have been done for centuries, where one leaves the body and travels the spirit world. Able to obtain information about higher dimensions and lower dimensions. The egyptians had to have inspired their depictions one way or another. As do the hindu realms which blatantly mention altered dimensions accessed by deep meditation. Tibetan buddhist's views on the cycle of reincarnation is obtained in a similar fashion. Today there are countless shamans who use visionary plants to obtain knowledge from these realms. But there are those who have learned to do it à la natural and those are the ones who are delving into the concept of astral projection. Which is a modern western day word for shamanic journeys out of the body. Also, Robert A. Monroe has books written on his OBE experiences. I do not think he mentions the word astral projection but from what i have observed reading it, it is definitely the same thing. It looks a lot like a journey through the stars. I suppose that's what inspired the word Astral in AP. But it is far more than that, it is a journey beyond the cosmos and through time itself. All experienced while still having a physical body intact. An astral projectee is able to obtain information of where the soul goes after physical death, and has an advantage on those who are not prepared before dying.

[user5659]

Astral/OBE is the same thing as Lucid Dreaming, the only difference might be a different feeling of Lucid Dream when you are seeing your self. For me it was always just another Lucid Dream.

[dreamcatcher81]

Personally I think lucid dreaming and astral projection are innerconnected in someway. So somebody that claims their both same I can agree with. However it would be wrong of me to ignore the differences between the two. Atleast from my point of view. I rest my convictions on the idea that obe/astral projection is a type of lucid dream vehicle that appears to be more accurate in representation of what we call waking physical reality. So it is my lucid dream vehicle of choice as I am more motivated to dream about something that impacts my life in a positive way.

[Runeword]

the only real difference as far as the way the two experiences vary is the feeling of actual physical seperation that happens during an "astral projection". the feeling of motion, of lifting out, floating, flying out, vibrating out etc, other than that the meat of the experience is absolutely one and the same (depending upon your expectations).

[user5659]

OP is right about DV Wiki, people are getting confused.

[TheSilverWolf]

Astral/OBE is the same thing as Lucid Dreaming, the only difference might be a different feeling of Lucid Dream when you are seeing your self. For me it was always just another Lucid Dream. I personally don't buy this. I think Astral Projection is its own unique ability. I have yet to achieve this, but I intend to try once I am happy with my LDing progress. Why do I believe this? Well, Astral Projection, as I understand it, is leaving your body, an OBE. I think there is a fair amount of evidence that OBE's do exist--look at near death experiences and cases when comatose individuals or those who were very close to death were able to describe things and parts of conversations they had no other way TOO know. I've said it before; I think our mind is very powerful. I think, were we a bit more open minded and willing to experiment, we would find that we can do many "impossible" things. Look at what some of those monks can do--stopping a sword or spear from slicing them open, using only their minds! Essentially, to me it just makes sense that if one can be forced into an OBE when they are near death, than one should be able to leave their body at will.

[shadowofwind]

I think the reason there's so much confusion and disagreement about astral projection, is that on its face it really is a lucid dream, but its also somehow more than that. But none of us understand what it is really, so we guess, or embrace other people's guesses. Briefly summarizing my own view: 1. Astral projection is not "all in your head", it can be accompanied by objectively verifiable paranormal phenomena 2. Cultivating it is however not a path to spiritual attainment: it doesn't lead where proponents claim it does My astral projection experiences have not been accompanied by objectively paranormal phenomena. The reason I believe its "more than a dream" is I've had other experiences that are clearly more than a dream, so I see no reason to doubt other people who say that about their astral projection experiences.

[yuppie11975]

. Look at what some of those monks can do--stopping a sword or spear from slicing them open, using only their minds! Please don't tell me you're implying monks can stop swords and spears harming them with their minds. What are you, twelve?

[TheSilverWolf]

A: people have been FILMED doing this in documentaries and stuff from fairly credible sources B: There are people who've done crazier such as swimming for hours and hours in water so cold they should've been dead within SECONDS C: Just because you disagree/don't believe something I post is no reason to be an ass about it. You have shown an astonishing amount of immaturity in your response to me...what are YOU, 12? ~SilverWolf~

[user5659]

I personally don't buy this. I think Astral Projection is its own unique ability. I have yet to achieve this, but I intend to try once I am happy with my LDing progress. Why do I believe this? Well, Astral Projection, as I understand it, is leaving your body, an OBE. I think there is a fair amount of evidence that OBE's do exist--look at near death experiences and cases when comatose individuals or those who were very close to death were able to describe things and parts of conversations they had no other way TOO know. I've said it before; I think our mind is very powerful. I think, were we a bit more open minded and willing to experiment, we would find that we can do many "impossible" things. Look at what some of those monks can do--stopping a sword or spear from slicing them open, using only their minds! Essentially, to me it just makes sense that if one can be forced into an OBE when they are near death, than one should be able to leave their body at will. I think you got me wrong, most of my dreams starts and/or ends with OBE/Astral. believe in OBE, i believe that our mind is more powerful then we can imagine. I am saying that OBE and Dream is happening in the same place, it is the same process. Only because you think of OBE as something special you will experience different feelings, if you will start thinking that flying in the sky in your lucid dreams is something very special and can lead to paranormal then you will feel different next time you fly in your dream. Read my post about precognition, i think it is some kind of a mix between awake and OBE state. http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ve-dreams.html

[user5659]

A: people have been FILMED doing this in documentaries and stuff from fairly credible sources B: There are people who've done crazier such as swimming for hours and hours in water so cold they should've been dead within SECONDS C: Just because you disagree/don't believe something I post is no reason to be an ass about it. You have shown an astonishing amount of immaturity in your response to me...what are YOU, 12? ~SilverWolf~ I do not think somebody filmed flying swords, but you are right about swimming in cold water. I saw one video where monks who mastered meditation went to sleep in the snow, and people covered them with even more snow, so they were sleeping in extremely cold conditions and they did not die, they kept their body temperature on high level during all sleep.

[user5659]

Please don't tell me you're implying monks can stop swords and spears harming them with their minds. What are you, twelve? Nobody is saying that they are stopping swords, however monks can do things that science cannot explain yet. Remember what scientist believed before? That our planet is the only one, that our planet is flat and so on.. At least consider a possibility of something, if you we will deny everything - we will not evolve.

[TheSilverWolf]

I do remember seeing something, I wish I could remember what it was...national geographic maybe? It's been a reallllly long time, so I can't remember exactly who filmed the documentary, but there was this monk, and he was demonstrating his ability to control his mind and body. He had a guy take a real spear--they demonstrated that it was not blunted--and this guy thrusted it right at the monk's stomach; he didn't have a scratch on him! He had a large read area from the force of the hit, but he wasn't cut--or disemboweled as he ought to have been! This reminds me of that saying, I don't remember who said it, but it was "Today's science fiction is tomorrow's science." ~SilverWolf~

[shadowofwind]

Some comments.... Scientists have known that the earth was round for thousands of years. Its easy to see from the shoreline, and with a bit more effort it can be measured with shadows. Columbus believed he could sail to India because he subscribed to a minority view among educated people that said the earth is smaller than it really is. He was opposed by people who believed more realistic estimates of the earth's size and knew he'd never make it. Unfortunately, a large portion of what you see on ostensibly educational shows on TV isn't true. People just make stuff up that sounds cool so that they can sell more advertizing. It has been this way since at least the 1950's. Lemmings charging en-mass off of cliffs? Made up by Disney. Ostriches hiding by putting their heads in the sand? Made up by Disney. Ancient astronauts, aliens, monks with supernatural powers? Almost all of that stuff is made up. But not all of it is made up, and its very hard to sort out what is or isn't real. Generally speaking, in my experience, the claims of occultists and theologians are by orders of magnitude less trustworthy than the claims of scientists. Since they're doing God's Work, any claim, substantiated or not, that forwards that work is viewed as a good thing. Furthermore, among eastern teachers who regard the world as illusory, outright lies are only a part of the wider illusion, and in their eyes what matters is what points towards the Truth. They teach that truthfulness matters for common people, since the world is still seems real to them. But the truly elect are beyond that. It never occurs to them that the great Mahatmas can't know what the truth is if they've cultivated a deep habit of lying. Does this sound like an unhealthily 'negative' view? On that grounds the 'positive' liars are believed. Never mind that their 'positive' claims have decidedly negative effects because they're not true. And yet, its not all BS. Mixed in with all the fabrications and half-lies are half-truths. Some of the stuff that 'monks' claim is real, including some things that skeptics would regard as impossible. So it seems that the best we can do is look to it for ideas, and see what we can work out for ourselves. In my experience some paranormal stuff is definitely possible.

[Diamondec]

This one time when I was little I really wanted to watch TV and cried myself to sleep while thinking that I wanted to watch TV. Later that night I felt myself floating down and found myself sitting in the sofa in front of the TV which was off. I wondered if I was dreaming but as I looked around the room I realized I wasn't because everything was very crisp and clear. It was much more real than any dream and I knew than I had exited my body. I thought about going outside and flying around but thought that if my parents can into my room while I was outside my body that they might think I was dead. So I thought about going back to my body and thought the words how do I get back to my body with the full knowledge that I would get back to my body. It has been several years since that day and have had several lucid dreams and none of them felt as real as the OBE I had when I was little.

[TheSilverWolf]

That is a very interesting experience. I always love to read about people's OBE's, because some of them can be quite amazing. Just the thought that a person is capable of leaving their bodies is really exciting. It makes me want to try to astral project tonight, instead of lucid dream. But, one thing at a time, and for now, that thing is LDing ~SilverWolf~

[user5659]

Some comments.... Scientists have known that the earth was round for thousands of years. Its easy to see from the shoreline, and with a bit more effort it can be measured with shadows. Columbus believed he could sail to India because he subscribed to a minority view among educated people that said the earth is smaller than it really is. He was opposed by people who believed more realistic estimates of the earth's size and knew he'd never make it. Unfortunately, a large portion of what you see on ostensibly educational shows on TV isn't true. People just make stuff up that sounds cool so that they can sell more advertizing. It has been this way since at least the 1950's. Lemmings charging en-mass off of cliffs? Made up by Disney. Ostriches hiding by putting their heads in the sand? Made up by Disney. Ancient astronauts, aliens, monks with supernatural powers? Almost all of that stuff is made up. But not all of it is made up, and its very hard to sort out what is or isn't real. Generally speaking, in my experience, the claims of occultists and theologians are by orders of magnitude less trustworthy than the claims of scientists. Since they're doing God's Work, any claim, substantiated or not, that forwards that work is viewed as a good thing. Furthermore, among eastern teachers who regard the world as illusory, outright lies are only a part of the wider illusion, and in their eyes what matters is what points towards the Truth. They teach that truthfulness matters for common people, since the world is still seems real to them. But the truly elect are beyond that. It never occurs to them that the great Mahatmas can't know what the truth is if they've cultivated a deep habit of lying. Does this sound like an unhealthily 'negative' view? On that grounds the 'positive' liars are believed. Never mind that their 'positive' claims have decidedly negative effects because they're not true. And yet, its not all BS. Mixed in with all the fabrications and half-lies are half-truths. Some of the stuff that 'monks' claim is real, including some things that skeptics would regard as impossible. So it seems that the best we can do is look to it for ideas, and see what we can work out for ourselves. In my experience some paranormal stuff is definitely possible. You are right, everything is mixed with lies. Internet is full of lies, photoshop and video-edits... I think it is almost impossible to find something useful about paranormal in internet. The only way is to go to Monks and watch them do it by your self But for now we can also try to do something, using our lucid dreams knowledge.